The Panarin Situation, Part 2

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Like nobody ever talks about their boss or management among fellow employees. Its almost as if people forget he wasn't the only player in that Uber.

Thats what I took from his post but... to each their own

OK. I'm asking questions, though, so...

 

[MAHJ71]

OK. I'm asking questions, though, so...

Questions that are fairly obvious to see what the answers are given he basically answers it in his prior post by making his "like nobody has ever talked negatively about their boss" comment.

Again, to each their own

So....

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Questions that are fairly obvious to see what the answers are given he basically answers it in his prior post by making his "like nobody has ever talked negatively about their boss" comment.

Again, to each their own

So....

It appears you're ascribing things to me that I haven't said.

So should I take from your posting that you are not concerned about Duchene from an off-ice perspective?

 

[MAHJ71]

It appears you're ascribing things to me that I haven't said.

So should I take from your posting that you are not concerned about Duchene from an off-ice perspective?

Yes, you should

He may have went about not wanting to play for Colorado in a pouting way but, I believe that was way overblown (and if not, how is it much different than what Bob has done this year?).

So far, outside of the Uber video in which there were several other players involved (doing what 99.9% on here have done -- talking about our bosses in private) he seems to have been fine in Ottawa.

What we indeed can and should agree upon is Duchene does not have anything to do with Panarin, LOL.

 

[Jackets16]

Yes, you should

He may have went about not wanting to play for Colorado in a pouting way but, I believe that was way overblown (and if not, how is it much different than what Bob has done this year?).

So far, outside of the Uber video in which there were several other players involved (doing what 99.9% on here have done -- talking about our bosses in private) he seems to have been fine in Ottawa.

What we indeed can and should agree upon is Duchene does not have anything to do with Panarin, LOL.

I don't want Bobrovsky on this team either. I'd prefer we didn't play him at all, until he gets traded. I know that won't happen, but I don't want players like that on our team.

 

[Jackets16]

Duchene is a good player. He isn't a great player.

Duchene will cost too much in assets to acquire.

Duchene will cost more than he is worth, IMO, to keep.

 

[blahblah]

Unless he is a complete misfit in the room, how can an 80+ point guy not significantly improve a team? Especially since the acquiring team most likely didn't give up a true top 6 player in the deal. Most teams have a guy like a Foligno playing top 6 minutes because they don't have anyone else to play there.

I'm bored. Have fun folks.

 

[EspenK]

So what you're saying is you disagree with the concerns about Duchene? That you have no issue with his off-ice life or influence on a locker room? Or that you share them, but they are outweighed by his potential benefit to the lineup?

(I fail to see what any of that had to do with Panarin.)

I am not concerned with him being a bad influence.

As far as the Panarin comment, I was merely pointing out the uselessness of "he doesn't make a team better" comment. With Panarin the Jackets aren't better from a record perspective with him than they were before.

 

[EspenK]

I love how you dismiss a legitimate (if overwrought) expression of concern that addresses a post you made in an attempt to help you "get it."

I'm bored. Have fun folks.

I see now how who I responded to felt.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

See, here's a post that we can have a conversation about. Much better reply that "give me a break," which requires a lot of follow up and if that poster doesn't happen to be around it's hard to figure out their position and you have to resort to talking with another poster about it, even if said other poster assumes you hold positions you've never voiced.

Yes, you should

Thank you.

He may have went about not wanting to play for Colorado in a pouting way but, I believe that was way overblown (and if not, how is it much different than what Bob has done this year?).

So I take it you're not upset with how Bob has handled this season and you'd welcome him back if he and the front office agreed on a new contract? That you don't find how he's handled his business a distraction?

So far, outside of the Uber video in which there were several other players involved (doing what 99.9% on here have done -- talking about our bosses in private) he seems to have been fine in Ottawa.

We've established your opinion on this. In isolation, I agree with you, but does it help establish a pattern?

What we indeed can and should agree upon is Duchene does not have anything to do with Panarin, LOL.

You're damn straight.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I am not concerned with him being a bad influence.

As far as the Panarin comment, I was merely pointing out the uselessness of "he doesn't make a team better" comment. With Panarin the Jackets aren't better from a record perspective with him than they were before.

I apologize I guess for asking for clarification. Thanks for being such a good sport anyway.

And now, back to Panarin discussion.

 

[MAHJ71]

See, here's a post that we can have a conversation about. Much better reply that "give me a break," which requires a lot of follow up and if that poster doesn't happen to be around it's hard to figure out their position and you have to resort to talking with another poster about it, even if said other poster assumes you hold positions you've never voiced.

Understandable.

I do not condone re-signing Bob. But I also wouldn't automatically label him for character issues like Duchene has been labeled by so many.

I don't see Duchene for character issues in Colorado, to me that was more about people being upset he wanted out, and did a little pouting about it on the way out.

In Ottawa, one Uber video that none of us should have seen to begin with, talking in the same way 99.9% of us have done before -- does not justify a character issues label in my mind.

*** ​

With that said, back to Panarin.

I've been vocal about trading him before the deadline, even if it means picks & prospects.

But with each game that we get closer to the deadline I think I find myself/my heart clinging to the thought of keeping him, no matter the fact my brain is telling me take whatever deal we can get for the assets. He's just so good, and an absolute joy to watch in person.. especially 4 tall cans deep on a wonderful Saturday night in Vegas

 

[Johansen2Foligno]

I had a dream we kept Panarin, and then my teeth fell out.

Is that a fair trade?

 

[EspenK]

I had a dream we kept Panarin, and then my teeth fell out.

Is that a fair trade?

False

 

[KJ Dangler]

Man this thread.. Duchene is a flat out stud, and if we lose Panarin, you wont be replacing him with equal talent, but I would argue that Duchene would make this team better, than they are currently constructed. Teams that have success, are solid down the middle. Our team is anything but that. So, essentially we have 1 scoring line. The best way for this team to move forward, is to get a legitimite #1/2 center, to go with PLD. The Wennberg experiement should be over, he is , what he is, a soft, disengaged player, that will turn it on occasionally. And Jenner is a much better #3 center than he is. Duchene has 25g and 28 a on a god awful team. Currently I would say hes a better center than PLd, and would probably complement, Atkinson, and Bread, better than PLD does. Granted, PLD is what 20 ? I'm just saying, you match up against a Pittsburgh, Tampa, Toronto, you better be damn solid down the middle, and we are anything but that.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

False

What if the trade included some Polydent?

 

[blahblah]

I see now how who I responded to felt.

I have no idea what prompted the last couple of pages, but my only objection was the use of the word "significant". I'm still bored. I said what I had to say. I have no interest in fighting with the Panarin fan club using subjective terminology beyond what I said - especially the other dude who quote me first. I think I might have offended his brother or something,

 

[Sore Loser]

Neat little article here:

Pucks in Deep: Artemi Panarin and the small market free agency dilemma

 

[hardkorejackets]

Lot of actually decent discussion going on here lately with different viewpoints. Mine is kind of unique with where I am... I also preface to not knowing what the best outcome to be- Mainly because I don't know the discussions happening between NHL GM's, trade offers on the table, or chances that a player signs here.

I understand those Season ticket holders since 2000 wanting a winning year, tired of hoping for late round draft picks, building up assets brick by brick, just to watch us miss the playoffs or get eliminated in Round 1. I can't admit to really being a true fan until 2011 honestly. I'm a full season ticket holder now. I like going to 15-20 hockey games a year, and I'm not to the point of frustration that I'm about to leave.

But, I'm not full out buyers on this season- By keeping Bread, Bob, buying Duchene or Stone just as pure rentals hoping to make a Stanley Cup Run. I'd like to see it, but I don't think we are quite there yet. I'd be really disappointed if we decided to do that and we got eliminated in the 1st round. Seeing Bread walk, giving up a 1st round pick, and a decent prospect/player that could be a decent NHL'er in a few seasons. Also, I'm not sure how likely we are to convince Duchene or Stone to sign here long term. That's why I'm not a big fan of buying a high rental like Duchene or Stone. It's a risk I don't feel comfortable doing at this time.

I'm actually for Jarmo having a set price to obtain in a trade for Bread, and trading Bob. If what we are offered for Bread is comparable to table scraps or garbage proposals on HF Main boards just to "take Bread off our hands since he's leaving 7/1- Like a Leafs fan saying- Ya know, we can give you the grand total of a 2nd round pick, Dymtro Timashov, and Connor Brown (He's a top 9 forward, you know) then yea, You keep him. But, If there's an offer that Jarmo finds acceptable- Like Tolvanen, a 1st round pick, and another roster player or a 2nd/3rd rounder or say Jonathan Huberdeau/Malgin. I'd like for him to do it. I just don't think I feel too comfortable that Duchene would sign an 8 year deal here at the price it would to acquire him.

I know it's not fun selling Bread, Bob away with no big adds in my proposal at this time (unless Jarmo feels safe with it). But, I don't think it's our year. I would stay the course, obtain more assets for Bread and Bob. Hopefully, get Tolvanen, another 1st round pick and other assets that we can keep or use in the future. Take a run at a player in Free Agency. I want those assets we can obtain back to help us compete in a couple years from now and widen our competition window a little further, rather than being too aggressive this year and having it backfire for a couple years.

I don't think we have this Mat Barzal/Lou Lamiorello GM/Trotz like coach that could help us withstand the fall of losing Bread and Bob for nothing and still be a Stanley Cup competitor now. Honestly, that might be my ulterior motive to maybe suck really bad that we miss the playoffs and get another top pick or chance at Alexis Lafreniere in the 2020 draft lol.

 

[Sore Loser]

Lot of actually decent discussion going on here lately with different viewpoints. Mine is kind of unique with where I am... I also preface to not knowing what the best outcome to be- Mainly because I don't know the discussions happening between NHL GM's, trade offers on the table, or chances that a player signs here.

I understand those Season ticket holders since 2000 wanting a winning year, tired of hoping for late round draft picks, building up assets brick by brick, just to watch us miss the playoffs or get eliminated in Round 1. I can't admit to really being a true fan until 2011 honestly. I'm a full season ticket holder now. I like going to 15-20 hockey games a year, and I'm not to the point of frustration that I'm about to leave.

But, I'm not full out buyers on this season- By keeping Bread, Bob, buying Duchene or Stone just as pure rentals hoping to make a Stanley Cup Run. I'd like to see it, but I don't think we are quite there yet. I'd be really disappointed if we decided to do that and we got eliminated in the 1st round. Seeing Bread walk, giving up a 1st round pick, and a decent prospect/player that could be a decent NHL'er in a few seasons. Also, I'm not sure how likely we are to convince Duchene or Stone to sign here long term. That's why I'm not a big fan of buying a high rental like Duchene or Stone. It's a risk I don't feel comfortable doing at this time.

I'm actually for Jarmo having a set price to obtain in a trade for Bread, and trading Bob. If what we are offered for Bread is comparable to table scraps or garbage proposals on HF Main boards just to "take Bread off our hands since he's leaving 7/1- Like a Leafs fan saying- Ya know, we can give you the grand total of a 2nd round pick, Dymtro Timashov, and Connor Brown (He's a top 9 forward, you know) then yea, You keep him. But, If there's an offer that Jarmo finds acceptable- Like Tolvanen, a 1st round pick, and another roster player or a 2nd/3rd rounder or say Jonathan Huberdeau/Malgin. I'd like for him to do it. I just don't think I feel too comfortable that Duchene would sign an 8 year deal here at the price it would to acquire him.

I know it's not fun selling Bread, Bob away with no big adds in my proposal at this time (unless Jarmo feels safe with it). But, I don't think it's our year. I would stay the course, obtain more assets for Bread and Bob. Hopefully, get Tolvanen, another 1st round pick and other assets that we can keep or use in the future. Take a run at a player in Free Agency. I want those assets we can obtain back to help us compete in a couple years from now and widen our competition window a little further, rather than being too aggressive this year and having it backfire for a couple years.

I don't think we have this Mat Barzal/Lou Lamiorello GM/Trotz like coach that could help us withstand the fall of losing Bread and Bob for nothing and still be a Stanley Cup competitor now. Honestly, that might be my ulterior motive to maybe suck really bad that we miss the playoffs and get another top pick or chance at Alexis Lafreniere in the 2020 draft lol.

Great post, basically what I think a lot of us are thinking.

I'm a day 1 CBJ fan, former Chill fanatic even. I was at the 2nd game (7-1 loss to the LA Kings)... I've followed this team through thick and thin, and you are spot on with the assessment.

I've mentioned a few times that even if we keep both of these players, we are maybe the 5th or 6th best team in the conference. I don't get the idea of going out and adding another upcoming UFA to the group, without the guarantee of them resigning either. Imagine that - we "punt" on Bread & Bob, give up a 1st and a handful of other goodies for Duchene or Stone, then lose in the first or second round, only to lose them all in the offseason.

That's the kind of season that will cost a front office its job.

I agree with your assessment of widening our window, but I don't think we will be in a position to land a lottery pick in two years. I think our window is just creeping open, and while losing these guys is a complete kick in the nuts, it won't cripple us like it might have 3-4 years ago.

So let's take what we can get, maybe still make the playoffs this year, and continue to be on the upswing while the strong teams around us age out. If we can go out and get a player for this year, or maybe sign someone as a free agent, all the better.

But we can't hold onto both of these guys and lose them for nothing. We just aren't that close... unless the offers are ridiculously low, we have to ship them out.

 

[koteka]

Give me a break.

The Uber video should never have come out. If it was other players without Duchene, it probably would not have been news. Who cares what a bunch of players on a crappy team with no history think about an assistant coach? But it did come out, and it did become news because of Duchene.

Duchene has put up over a point per game since the video came out. He is in a contract year and the video reinforced what many in the league thought about him. He realized he better pull his head out of his ass and start working hard or he isn’t going to get the big contract. I suspect he’ll get the big contract and go back to being a guy known for not working as hard as he could. I do not think he would get along with Torts. I do not think he will be a good influence on a young team. I do not think the CBJ should trade for him or spend any money on him. Let him go somewhere like the Islanders and disrupt that team.

Back to Panarin. I like him. He is underrated by the average NHL fan because they never see CBJ games. We know what he brings. We know the things like besides his skating and ability to set things up, he is a pretty tough guy for his size and he plays bigger than he is. We can’t replace him in free agency.

I would trade him if we got the right offer. Otherwise, let’s enjoy Panarin and see where this train goes.

If Panarin leaves, I still say we won the trades with Chicago. Saad’s 2 highest point seasons and 2 years of prime Panarin plus a pick that became prospect Jonathon Davidsson for aging Anisimov, a 1st round pick who looked promising but would later be waived by his 3rd nhl team, a guy who is out of hockey (he did play 3 games for the Hershey Bears this season), a guy who has played 1 NHL game since leaving the CBJ, a draft pick Which became a player who might not leave the KHL, and our AHL affiliate goalie who we didn’t think would become an NHL starter? Yes, we definitely won those trades even if Panarin walks. Would anyone trade Davidsson for Dano today?

 

[ViD]

I don't want Bobrovsky on this team either. I'd prefer we didn't play him at all, until he gets traded. I know that won't happen, but I don't want players like that on our team.

Players like the two time Vezina winner ? Ok

 

[The Jones Zone]

Panarin to Boston gaining steam on mains since Pasta is out for ~2 weeks?

I try to stay away from mains....not very good at it sometimes

 

[ViD]

I hope he stays for the playoff push

 

[Lumbus]

Lots of rumors surrounding FLA as a potential trade destination.

Some thoughts... Would you do Panarin and Bob for Huberdeau (plus a pick and...?)? Would Florida? Would you let Florida negotiate contract extensions with them now? Or maybe CBJ should aim for separate deals for both of them? Would just Panarin (or maybe just Bob if he will sign a contreact extension with Florida) be enough to get that kind of return?