The Out of Town Thread part LXIX - All Talk From Around the League Here ‎

[overlords]

Diaz isn't really fast.

He's faster than Schenn.

 

[Kriss E]

Disagreed. People are saying we have a bad D-core, but that's only because of a few injuries. We can afford to let go of Markov if we have strong return value. Just look at this:

Emelin-Subban
Gorges-Tinordi
Murray/Diaz-Bouillon

it'S actually pretty solid, with our top pairing able to play toe-to-toe against the best in the NHL. Gorges will be a great fit for Tinordi.

Obviously, the key is: a healthy D core. But while trading Markov would hurt our PP, it would free up a left-side spot for Emelin to take up.

It's not solid at all. It's not as bad as some like to lead on, but it's not great.
However, a big reason why it is actually not that bad is mainly because we have two very elite puck movers and the most productive pair last year. Get rid of Markov and we lose that.

Emelin is injured. Not back any time soon and unknown just how great he'll be upon his return.
Tinordi is a rookie that isn't yet suited for a top 4 role.
Bouillon and Murray are bad Dmen.

Really, nothing to brag about. A big reason why we play well is because of how all the five players stick do their coverage. Another is because PK and Markov are both on this team.

I have no interest in moving Markov.

I think moving Markov for him would be awesome. Markov is diminishing returns now. Diaz could take his place at this point and Cobourn would step in and give Tinordi time to develop.

Coburn's in his late 20s. Yes, our PP wouldn't be as lethal but it would be good enough. We'd sacrifice a strength to address a weakness and we've still got Beaulieu coming up.

I highly doubt that they'd give us Coburn for Markov though. Why would they?

Markov isn't in his prime, however he's still very useful to us. We had one of the, if not the, most production from the defence out of the whole league last year. A major reason why was PK-Markov.
I don't think Diaz is ready to step in, he's never showed he was. The only time he looked good was when he was paired with Markov on the PP (coincidence? No. Not after all the names we've seen succeed next to Markov), and he's certainly not as good at ES either.
Beaulieu has a few NHL games of experience, same as Tinordi. They're still prospects.

Coburn would help us in the top 4, but nobody we have, nor him, would replace Markov.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

Philly just gave stupid money to an old PP specialist in Streit. While Markov is better at everything except shooting, he still has limited value to Philly.

Their backline needs speed. MAYBE we would be able to trade them Diaz,and we'd get like Talbot in return.


Oilers are still awful, that team needs an entire management overhaul.

The Flyers' backline need Support, first and foremost. The reason they suck isn't necessarily the players they have there; it's their game system. The forwards abandon their backliners at the first opportunity

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Because what Markov can bring to the table isn't necessarily based on his athletic abilities. He's still got a few years in the can, and when paired with someone who's strong and physical, he's proven to be a very, very legit top-pairing man (proof: Emelin-Markov pairing last year). Philadelphia is rolling in these strong, physical D-man. Markov would thrive there like a fish in water.

Diaz... just isn't anywhere near Markov's effectiveness.

But why invest in Markov at all? Just go to some other team if you don't like Diaz. I just don't see why they'd give up a 28 year old Coburn for a 34 year old blueliner with bad knees.

If they do it... great. But I think they'd be crazy to do it.

RNH has some nice moves

I'm a big fan.

It's not solid at all. It's not as bad as some like to lead on, but it's not great.
However, a big reason why it is actually not that bad is mainly because we have two very elite puck movers and the most productive pair last year. Get rid of Markov and we lose that.

Yes we do.

But I think you'd agree that we're not going anywhere this year. And Markov could very well be playing on borrowed time. One more injury and hes' done.

Yes he can move the puck. Yes he's awesome (maybe the best in the league) on the PP. But we're seriously hurting in other areas. And while we lose some mobility, right now that mobility is coming at a cost. I don't think Diaz and Markov is a very good pairing. They're just too much of a liability now.

Emelin is injured. Not back any time soon and unknown just how great he'll be upon his return.
Tinordi is a rookie that isn't yet suited for a top 4 role.
Bouillon and Murray are bad Dmen.

Really, nothing to brag about. A big reason why we play well is because of how all the five players stick do their coverage. Another is because PK and Markov are both on this team.

I have no interest in moving Markov.

You have to give something to get something. We've got Subban and Diaz with Beaulieu on the way. Of the three I think he makes the most sense to move. But like I said, I don't see us getting a guy like Coburn back.

Markov isn't in his prime, however he's still very useful to us. We had one of the, if not the, most production from the defence out of the whole league last year. A major reason why was PK-Markov.

I don't deny this. And actually it was THE most productive blueline in the league (offensively) last year.

I don't think Diaz is ready to step in, he's never showed he was. The only time he looked good was when he was paired with Markov on the PP (coincidence? No. Not after all the names we've seen succeed next to Markov), and he's certainly not as good at ES either.
Beaulieu has a few NHL games of experience, same as Tinordi. They're still prospects.

Well, Markov has lost a step. He's a liability moreso than Diaz is. And while Diaz is not Markov on the PP, I think he'd be good enough. And PK alone can make that PP run pretty well now. We'd still have a good productive blueline. As good offensively? No. But still very good. And Coburn isn't useless offensively either. He's just not a number one.

Defensively though I think it would be infinitely better.

Coburn would help us in the top 4, but nobody we have, nor him, would replace Markov.

We dont' really need to replace him though. The team's offense back there is good enough. What's not good enough is the D in our own zone. Nobody can clear the crease and we need to be more physical back there.

Three years from now:

Subban Coburn
Beaulieu Tinordi
Diaz Gorges

That's a pretty good group man.

Won't happen though... like I said, I don't see Philly doing this.

 

[PricePkPatch*]

But why invest in Markov at all? Just go to some other team if you don't like Diaz. I just don't see why they'd give up a 28 year old Coburn for a 34 year old blueliner with bad knees.

If they do it... great.

I personally think Markov is much more valuable than Diaz at the moment. And I dont really want Coburn; like I said, I'd rather we bulk up our RW with Simmonds. That would do wonder to our offense.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I personally think Markov is much more valuable than Diaz at the moment. And I dont really want Coburn; like I said, I'd rather we bulk up our RW with Simmonds. That would do wonder to our offense.

I'd be fine with either one. We desperately need both of those kinds of players.

But Markov isn't going to get either one so it's kind of moot.


Back to the Oilers game...

 

[Whitesnake]

I read today that there have been 25 coaching changes in the past 2 years. That's a lot of new coaches with time left to make mistakes before they get fired . Laviolette might think of broadcasting because he could be waiting some time.

Barry Trotz lifeshelf has to come to an end. Pete DeBoer, Claude Noel or Kevin Dineen could also get an early boot.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Barry Trotz lifeshelf has to come to an end. Pete DeBoer, Claude Noel or Kevin Dineen could also get an early boot.

Yup Laviolette loses Pronger and Trots loses Suter... both teams underperform. Can't lose star players like that and not wind up paying the price. Maybe an oversimplification of their problems but definitely significant losses.

And it's the coach who always pays. Except for Ruff, who paid eventually.

 

[sheed36]

Ryder scores.. 3-0 Devils

 

[Habsawce]

Mike Yeo might not be around much longer either, and I think Laviolette would be a good fit with that roster.

 

[Whitesnake]

Yup Laviolette loses Pronger and Trots loses Suter... both teams underperform. Can't lose star players like that and not wind up paying the price. Maybe an oversimplification of their problems but definitely significant losses.

And it's the coach who always pays. Except for Ruff, who paid eventually.

Still, like I said, Trotz had to be at the end of his shelf life. But with or without Suter, Trotz was lucky enough so that he didn't have a whole lot of expectations. Since 1998, that's only 2 2nd round.....He would not have last 5 years in Montreal. They have been underperforming for years. Just that now....it's more visible. Add it to maybe having to change the fact behind the net, to a Rinne who clearly isn't at his best, lost of Suter, lost of Kostitsyn..., and there are often more than 1 reason.

 

[sheed36]

I think eventually the Oilers are gonna have to trade one of their skilled top forwards for some defensive help and some size. That forward group although highly skilled just aren't very big and won't fare so well against bigger teams pushing them around all the time.

I wonder where I've heard that before?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Still, like I said, Trotz had to be at the end of his shelf life. But with or without Suter, Trotz was lucky enough so that he didn't have a whole lot of expectations. Since 1998, that's only 2 2nd round.....He would not have last 5 years in Montreal. They have been underperforming for years. Just that now....it's more visible. Add it to maybe having to change the fact behind the net, to a Rinne who clearly isn't at his best, lost of Suter, lost of Kostitsyn..., and there are often more than 1 reason.

You're right, he's past his best before date.

I wonder if they'll bring in somebody with a more offensive system.

 

[Et le But]

I think eventually the Oilers are gonna have to trade one of their skilled top forwards for some defensive help and some size. That forward group although highly skilled just aren't very big and won't fare so well against bigger teams pushing them around all the time.

I wonder where I've heard that before?

At least the Oilers play goons...too many.

 

[Whitesnake]

I didn't have the "chance" to watch the Oilers but how's Anton Belov being doing? Anybody had a chance to watch the big man play?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think eventually the Oilers are gonna have to trade one of their skilled top forwards for some defensive help and some size. That forward group although highly skilled just aren't very big and won't fare so well against bigger teams pushing them around all the time.

I wonder where I've heard that before?

I'm part surprised and part not.

I thought Edmonton would be further ahead by now. Even taking into consideration the injuries (and they've definitely hurt) I thought they'd be better.

On the other hand... I had no faith in Lowe. And less so now. Adding Ference? Okay. Making him captain? Why? And they need so much more help back there. New coach, that will take a while to get used to (if he's even the right choice as they went with a rookie.) Big contracts that I felt were too early... just not a good way to run things.

We'll see how things pan out over there but if I owned the Oilers the first thing I'd do is get a new GM.

 

[Gustave]

I didn't have the "chance" to watch the Oilers but how's Anton Belov being doing? Anybody had a chance to watch the big man play?

I think it's hard for any individual to shine on that D squad. They're just.... plain bad. Belov plends in, that's it.

 

[Team_Spirit]

I think it's hard for any individual to shine on that D squad. They're just.... plain bad. Belov plends in, that's it.

nobody can land a pass to save their life and some of their big prospects are not playing very well either

 

[Tyson]

I know it is early but that Oiler team may have some high end young talent but man they have a lot of holes.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I know it is early but that Oiler team may have some high end young talent but man they have a lot of holes.

How much of this is coaching and how much is experience and how much is the D?

I don't know but add it up and they don't look good right now.

 

[sheed36]

I know it is early but that Oiler team may have some high end young talent but man they have a lot of holes.

Too bad for Oiler fans that fantasy they had last year during Subban's holdout that Sam Gagner, UFA to be Ryan Whitney + a 2nd round pick was more than enough and good value for PK didn't come true.. They would be a much better team today..

 

[Jack Bourdain]

Watching the Oilers suck has got me thinking, how would fans in Montreal react to their team not being competitive for as long the Oilers have been? I know that we would still probably sell out, but the anger of Habs fans is easily felt in this city.

 

[sheed36]

Finger Ference gets the Oilers to within 1.. 3-2 Devils

Edit.. Perron scores.. 3-3

Edit.. Hall scores.. 4-3 Oilers.. Why you no suck like this when playing the Habs Marty?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nice. Let's go Oilers.

And appropriately... post number 99 of this thread.

 

[Theosis]

What the hell happened? I switched to the NY/LA game for a bit and all of a sudden its 3-4 Oilers