The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part IV

[coladin]

The big regional TV deal and brand new downtown arena project and good attendance in an oversized arena ...Say you are wrong...How can teams like WPG,EDM, CGY VAN all spend easily to the cap and we cant???The answer is their ownership doesnt need any profit from the team to survive as they are all actually rich...

Near capacity attendance, much higher prices, more committed ownership. Two of those teams receive equalization payments. You are naive if you think they do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They all need profit, and they all don't like to lose money. I'm sure Calgary and Vancouver told the NHL to skip their equalization payments and donate it to charity.

 

[topshelf15]

Near capacity attendance, much higher prices, more committed ownership. Two of those teams receive equalization payments. You are naive if you think they do this out of the goodness of their hearts. They all need profit, and they all don't like to lose money. I'm sure Calgary and Vancouver told the NHL to skip their equalization payments and donate it to charity.

You still dont answer the question??How do we have good attendance in an oversized arena ,a better regional tv deal and an arena deal on the table worth billions ...Yet we cant afford to spend more than the bottom of the league??

 

[Flamingo]

You still dont answer the question??How do we have good attendance in an oversized arena ,a better regional tv deal and an arena deal on the table worth billions ...Yet we cant afford to spend more than the bottom of the league??

Debt servicing?

 

[topshelf15]

Debt servicing?

Lol no kidding...This nonsense that the team cant support itself with a much higher operating budget needs to end....

 

[Micklebot]

What if Karlsson's injury issn't his groin but has to do with his foot? What if our medical staff told Dorion his foot would never be the same and it's only a matter of time before it becomes a real issue.

Believe me I wanted Karlsson for the rest of his career but just think if this is the start of the decline.

So... if we create an alternate timeline in which Karlsson is doomed to have persistent injury issues, then ya sure, it was brilliant to move on from him. But in the current timeline in which his injuries appear to be completely unrelated, then no.

 

[mysens]

You still dont answer the question??How do we have good attendance in an oversized arena ,a better regional tv deal and an arena deal on the table worth billions ...Yet we cant afford to spend more than the bottom of the league??

This current owner and any other future owner or partner is not going to support the non supporting fan. They need bums in the seats. Easy stuff.

 

[Sens]

This current owner and any other future owner or partner is not going to support the non supporting fan. They need bums in the seats. Easy stuff.

Maybe don’t ice a last place hockey club without their 1st rd pick?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Maybe don’t ice a last place hockey club without their 1st rd pick?

And trade away the farm for a player thinking he's going to put you over the top immediately
And when he doesn't within 2 months decide to trade the best player on your team for financial and phylosphical reasons
And not be able to hang on to your player you just traded for and the player most regard as the best player and leader on your team and the next best scorer after these two
And say its the best day in your career after trading away your best player and leader
And name a player you put on waivers at the start of the year along with another couple of polarizing D men; one who is a 7th Dman on most good NHL teams, if that; and the other who has been played over his head most of his career and consistently mismanages the puck to the point of giving it away to opponents without a hockey stick to play with as your leaders in a rebuild.

Forgot about the laughable return on Hoffman; And the make your mark on the league deal with Zibanejad when he first took over.

The GM our owner deserves

 

[BK201]

Maybe don’t ice a last place hockey club without their 1st rd pick?

Yeah I mean they treat me like an idiot moving my play off seats around weeks after i bought them, put me in worse seats, refuse to apologize like thier some high and mighty power that can't make a mistake, trade away my favourite players over and over and then tell me after Karlsson Stone and Duchene walk they say i need to understand what a rebuild means.

Like idk im 1/2 the mind to tell them they need to understand some languages i cannot use on this site.

Then i think of the guys on the team and am like well i cant get along with them and i fully believe i am reasonable fan. All they have to say to me is im sorry for messing you around and talking to you like your an idiot.

Now I've talked to real sens people even marketers on THIS forum I tell them im willing to willing to buy 1/2 season 300 and talk about 200's if they apologize to me.

Crickets man they don't care about the individual and that works out sometimes but when you offend too many it back fires and people tell other people and they start noticing it too. That's what is happening now.

 

[Flamingo]

This current owner and any other future owner or partner is not going to support the non supporting fan. They need bums in the seats. Easy stuff.

They had bums in seats, and lost the trust of the fanbase.

 

[coladin]

You still dont answer the question??How do we have good attendance in an oversized arena ,a better regional tv deal and an arena deal on the table worth billions ...Yet we cant afford to spend more than the bottom of the league??

I gave you the answers. You just didn’t like them. Lousy, papered attendance at discounted pricing. That and debt servicing will keep this team near the cap floor

 

[BatherSeason]

Now I've talked to real sens people even marketers on THIS forum I tell them im willing to willing to buy 1/2 season 300 and talk about 200's if they apologize to me.

Are you saying that there are people in these forums who work for Sens staff??? I am shocked. I wonder if any of us can figure out who these posters could be??

 

[stempniaksen]

You still dont answer the question??How do we have good attendance in an oversized arena ,a better regional tv deal and an arena deal on the table worth billions ...Yet we cant afford to spend more than the bottom of the league??

I feel like this gets glossed over so much, and it really shouldn't. We weren't selling out because we had the 2nd biggest arena in the entire league (in a flawed market, which some people like to point out all the damn time). This isn't field of dreams, you can't just build a 20k seat arena in a market this flawed (Phoenix, gov't can't buy tickets, between Montreal/Toronto, ect) and expect consistent sellouts.

If the organization wants to cry poor and remind fans were a small market team with limitations, the rink should be one of the smaller ones in the league (closer to Winnipeg's). Speaking of Winnipeg, they couldn't sell out their (much smaller) arena in the playoffs either, but we don't hear a peep about it.

 

[Sweatred]

So... if we create an alternate timeline in which Karlsson is doomed to have persistent injury issues, then ya sure, it was brilliant to move on from him. But in the current timeline in which his injuries appear to be completely unrelated, then no.

Emotions aside I don't think 1/3 of the teams in the league would consider EK this summer at $10x7 or whatever he will be asking for. There is no question for a short term deal he is worth that money but for a cash strapped franchise 8 years at max cash is hard to justify. Every team would like to have him but recognize that committing to that type of deal would be too risky and limit other payouts to other players who need contracts which may represent more certainty. It also exposes an extra dman on every team that signs him ahead of Seattle.

 

[stempniaksen]

Emotions aside I don't think 1/3 of the teams in the league would consider EK this summer at $10x7 or whatever he will be asking for. There is no question for a short term deal he is worth that money but for a cash strapped franchise 8 years at max cash is hard to justify. Every team would like to have him but recognize that committing to that type of deal would be too risky and limit other payouts to other players who need contracts which may represent more certainty. It also exposes an extra dman on every team that signs him ahead of Seattle.

Agree to disagree I suppose. That being said, it only takes 1 team to make the right offer for him to sign it.

I still tend to think the Sharks will do whatever they can to re-sign him, even if it means "overpaying" for him. There's also a handful of teams that should have TONS of cap space this summer with the ceiling going up again. I'm sure they'd love to add a player of EK's ilk (regardless of perceived "damaged goods") for FREE.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I'd still do Karlsson at 10 million x 7. Now...any more money than that and a year more term and it gets dicey.

The dude either plays really hard or just has 'the knack' for getting injured though. It's a scary contract to negotiate.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Yeah I mean they treat me like an idiot moving my play off seats around weeks after i bought them, put me in worse seats, refuse to apologize like thier some high and mighty power that can't make a mistake, trade away my favourite players over and over and then tell me after Karlsson Stone and Duchene walk they say i need to understand what a rebuild means.

Like idk im 1/2 the mind to tell them they need to understand some languages i cannot use on this site.

Then i think of the guys on the team and am like well i cant get along with them and i fully believe i am reasonable fan. All they have to say to me is im sorry for messing you around and talking to you like your an idiot.

Now I've talked to real sens people even marketers on THIS forum I tell them im willing to willing to buy 1/2 season 300 and talk about 200's if they apologize to me.

Crickets man they don't care about the individual and that works out sometimes but when you offend too many it back fires and people tell other people and they start noticing it too. That's what is happening now.

Any admission of error or apology WILL NOT happen under a Eugene Melnyk owned team that's basically for sure, we have 100's of anecdotes from extremely reliable sources who remind us of the type of human being this person is, which is a person with an extremely massive ego who thinks they are smarter than everyone, consistently lies and misleads and is likely one of the most stubborn people you will ever encounter in your lifetime.

They have treated you horribly and imo you deserve more than a quick "sorry", your experience seems to be shockingly familiar these days. At a distance this would almost appear intentional however at a closer view I believe it to be incompetence perhaps to a level that has not been seen in all sports for decades.

 

[stempniaksen]

The dude either plays really hard or just has 'the knack' for getting injured though. It's a scary contract to negotiate.

Before this season he has missed extensive time exactly once in his career. Wouldn't exactly call that a knack.

 

[coladin]

I feel like this gets glossed over so much, and it really shouldn't. We weren't selling out because we had the 2nd biggest arena in the entire league (in a flawed market, which some people like to point out all the damn time). This isn't field of dreams, you can't just build a 20k seat arena in a market this flawed (Phoenix, gov't can't buy tickets, between Montreal/Toronto, ect) and expect consistent sellouts.

If the organization wants to cry poor and remind fans were a small market team with limitations, the rink should be one of the smaller ones in the league (closer to Winnipeg's). Speaking of Winnipeg, they couldn't sell out their (much smaller) arena in the playoffs either, but we don't hear a peep about it.

Such BS to try and compare their literal handful of sold seats on resale , last minute singles, compared to the thousands Ottawa had. You want a Winnipeg sized arena here. You want to pay Winnipeg prices? Ottawa fans have no shame. They had crowds of 27,000 outside the arena, you should be embarrassed to drag their fans into this.

The only thing that you said that had merit was saying this is a flawed market. Well done.

 

[BatherSeason]

Such BS to try and compare their literal handful of sold seats on resale , last minute singles, compared to the thousands Ottawa had. You want a Winnipeg sized arena here. You want to pay Winnipeg prices? Ottawa fans have no shame. They had crowds of 27,000 outside the arena, you should be embarrassed to drag their fans into this.

The only thing that you said that had merit was saying this is a flawed market. Well done.

Funny when you google"Ottawa Senators unsold playoff tickets" the first articles that appear seem to be mostly about blaming Melnyk. Also love the quote below from this Deadspin article.

https://deadspin.com/shut-up-about-ottawas-attendance-1795506802

"I’d also urge everyone to stop thinking of fandom as something quantifiable, or of attendance as any sort of effective measure. If a fan does not want to pay to attend a game, that fan is 100 percent not at fault—there are no obligations here, or for any fan of any team at any time. If a company isn’t providing a product or service that fans are willing to pay for, the failing is on the company and its executives—the NHL and Melnyk, here—and it’s up to them to figure out where they went wrong."

Sens staffers in here are about to tell me that I am making things up again.

 

[Grizwald]

I gave you the answers. You just didn’t like them. Lousy, papered attendance at discounted pricing. That and debt servicing will keep this team near the cap floor

Can't agree.

The Sens will always be at the floor because no player will resign with the team long term as long as Melnyk remains the owner.

Melnyk doesn't have the money anymore to be a qualified NHL owner: He used to be a bona fide billionaire but after the Biovail scandal & divorce not so much anymore, not to mention he's a meddling lunatic but that's another story.

Melnyk has been liquidating his assets for a few years now: no horse racing, no Bert's Barbados, and the Sens are the final piece remaining. I think Melnyk is holding out and will sell the team when the price is right - can't blame him for that.

Maybe I'm out to lunch but I honestly believe the more fans who refuse to go to the games, the quicker it will force Melnyk into bankruptcy and sell the team.

 

[branch]

Can't agree.

The Sens will always be at the floor because no player will resign with the team long term as long as Melnyk remains the owner.

Melnyk doesn't have the money anymore to be a qualified NHL owner: He used to be a bona fide billionaire but after the Biovail scandal & divorce not so much anymore, not to mention he's a meddling lunatic but that's another story.

Melnyk has been liquidating his assets for a few years now: no horse racing, no Bert's Barbados, and the Sens are the final piece remaining. I think Melnyk is holding out and will sell the team when the price is right - can't blame him for that.

Maybe I'm out to lunch but I honestly believe the more fans who refuse to go to the games, the quicker it will force Melnyk into bankruptcy and sell the team.

Yes this is my thinking as well

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

He is still harping on Ottawa fans for what he thinks is bad.

Why don't you go cheer for another team who's fans are 'better'.

Seems like you have more passion for fan participation than you do the team itself.

 

[RyCam]

Phaneuf was a great move, probably Dorions best trade. Very smart management.

Methot had nothing to do with Dorion cutting bait and moving on, that's foolish.

Brassard had nothing to do with a GM being shrewd and selling high on a player. We tanked, and he was traded, for a decent return. That's the reason he was traded, not because Dorion was shrewd.

Turris, sure, we cut bait at the right time. Unfortunately, the trade was terrible.

Karlsson, no. That's ridiculous. Don't really need an explanation there.

Let's not forget that Dorion attempted to re-acquire Methot later that summer, it's not as if he allowed Vegas to pick Methot as part of some 4D chess move where he predicted the decline of Methot, he lucked out that Methot has had injury issues since leaving Ottawa.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Before this season he has missed extensive time exactly once in his career. Wouldn't exactly call that a knack.

Would have missed time after the playoff run - probably should have taken a little longer getting rehabbed, but that's semantics. Perhaps it just feels to me that he's about to be oft injured, that his body might be a little too fragile for a massive contract. Or maybe it's that I'm still really upset that we lost him. Trying to look at it without those emotions, I still feel there'll be a buyer beware tag on him on a long term, big $$ deal - and yes, I'd still love to have him back at 10 mil.