The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part IV

[BatherSeason]

An article leading up to Game 6 against the Pens. Yeah, let's all shut up about attendance lol. Only because it was major news, but let's ignore the blak eye and give the other eye a free shot. Oh yes, leading up to Game 6 , the product was terrrrible.

Since you ignored the bolded part, I am going to put it back up for you:

If a company isn’t providing a product or service that fans are willing to pay for, the failing is on the company and its executives—the NHL and Melnyk, here—and it’s up to them to figure out where they went wrong."

The only black eye that has been ignored for far too long by the local and National media is Eugene Melnyk.

 

[coladin]

Any proof that "acceptable offers" were made, other than a random reddit poster or people using information that was given by any of the water carriers?

Even if I had proof, would it matter to you?

 

[coladin]

But when people point you in the direction that the flawed market is in direct correlation to the bat**** crazy owner and his out of touch front office you dispute this...
Look the attendance numbers up, Ottawa did very, very good for a small market under Melnyk until he decided to be an hockey exec.

And yet you continually refuse to acknowledge that Ottawa did very , very good with very, very papered numbers. The articles are there. You can go figure out why they papered it, it is old news.

There are many reasons for the flawed market. You can pinpoint it directly to one person, but when they were giving 3000 away in 09, he was pretty f***ing quiet back then, and generally beloved.

 

[RaMai]

Even if I had proof, would it matter to you?

Probably as much as the missing bonus structure for potential lockout years or the missing NMC for you

 

[coladin]

Since you ignored the bolded part, I am going to put it back up for you:

If a company isn’t providing a product or service that fans are willing to pay for, the failing is on the company and its executives—the NHL and Melnyk, here—and it’s up to them to figure out where they went wrong."

The only black eye that has been ignored for far too long by the local and National media is Eugene Melnyk.

I didn't ignore it. I just found that comment ridiculous and funny considered this person posted that on the verge of Game 6 of the ECF. Like, what the f*** was wrong with the product at that time, in the context of the f***ing article? Educate yourself and don't waste my time calling me out.

 

[BatherSeason]

Like, what the **** was wrong with the product at that time

The owner was and still is the problem. That was the context of the article. Why don't you educate yourself and have a read.

 

[coladin]

Probably as much as the missing bonus structure for potential lockout years or the missing NMC for you

What missing bonus structure? 29M, NMC was not for the entire contract. Doesn't make it a bad offer. It didn't get the job done, but I am satisfied with the offer. Did you honestly think that Ottawa would have ANY bonus money? Many here didn't, many here didn't even consider that Ottawa would have any.

I don't think 8 x 9.5M is a bad offer. I don't think, for little 'ol Ottawa, or broke owner Ottawa, that 29M was a bad offer. I don't think 5 out of 8 years under NMC, was a bad offer. And I don't begrudge Stone in the least. Not at all. He has a finite career and he has to do what is best for his life.

 

[coladin]

The owner was and still is the problem. That was the context of the article. Why don't you educate yourself and have a read.

ok

So, Erik Karlsson on one leg wasn't good enough for some to go because the owner? Man, people love to be miserable. Too bad we didn't advance to the Cup Final to put your theory to the test. I bet you the place would be sold out, 20,500 every game.

 

[BatherSeason]

What missing bonus structure? 29M, NMC was not for the entire contract

There is literally zero proof that an offer existed, other than what the media (who has played in the orgs lies) has reported.

 

[RaMai]

And yet you continually refuse to acknowledge that Ottawa did very , very good with very, very papered numbers. The articles are there. You can go figure out why they papered it, it is old news.

There are many reasons for the flawed market. You can pinpoint it directly to one person, but when they were giving 3000 away in 09, he was pretty ****ing quiet back then, and generally beloved.

He should have kept the quiet going. I don't refuse to acknowledge the papering, but I still think a properly run franchise is very feasible in Ottawa. You go out of you way to tell us the market is flawed, if you are right I hope they move sooner rather than later.
If it's a revenue sharing issue, EM is the wrong owner to address this...the BOG doesn't take him or his puppet Dorion serious.

 

[RaMai]

What missing bonus structure? 29M, NMC was not for the entire contract. Doesn't make it a bad offer. It didn't get the job done, but I am satisfied with the offer. Did you honestly think that Ottawa would have ANY bonus money? Many here didn't, many here didn't even consider that Ottawa would have any.

I don't think 8 x 9.5M is a bad offer. I don't think, for little 'ol Ottawa, or broke owner Ottawa, that 29M was a bad offer. I don't think 5 out of 8 years under NMC, was a bad offer. And I don't begrudge Stone in the least. Not at all. He has a finite career and he has to do what is best for his life.

I'm with you on most of this, but the conclusion we reach is very different. As we all know, it's hard to compete with the tax heavens like Vegas. However, in the past it was possible to convince star players to stay even if they could have made more elsewhere.
Who, if not EM and his front office, is to blame with creating an environment that you can't, in the slightest, convince even 1 of your star players to extend here?
I'm just refusing to come to the conclusion it's the fans fault or that we had a bunch of players with a bad character (and even that would be partially managements fault). For me it's EM 11 times out of 10, for you it's the opposite.

 

[coladin]

I'm with you on most of this, but the conclusion we reach is very different. As we all know, it's hard to compete with the tax heavens like Vegas. However, in the past it was possible to convince star players to stay even if they could have made more elsewhere.
Who, if not EM and his front office, is to blame with creating an environment that you can't, in the slightest, convince even 1 of your star players to extend here?
I'm just refusing to come to the conclusion it's the fans fault or that we had a bunch of players with a bad character (and even that would be partially managements fault). For me it's EM 11 times out of 10, for you it's the opposite.

Huh? Who is blaming the fans?

Senators offered the most they could. They couldn’t touch Vegas and yes, it sucked. I am not going to blame the Senators. Mark Stone negotiated up to the last minute. Doesn’t exactly sound desperate to leave , does he?

Duchene was upfront with management and he wanted to play in the playoffs. Loved the team. Happy with the money.

Maybe fans read too much into things.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Explain to me why Ceci is constantly getting praise from the coaching staff?
Is Marty Raymond still coaching? Falling behind on my Sens news.

Is he oconstantly getting praise? We tried t trade him

 

[NorthCoast]

Huh? Who is blaming the fans?

Senators offered the most they could. They couldn’t touch Vegas and yes, it sucked. I am not going to blame the Senators. Mark Stone negotiated up to the last minute. Doesn’t exactly sound desperate to leave , does he?

Duchene was upfront with management and he wanted to play in the playoffs. Loved the team. Happy with the money.

Maybe fans read too much into things.

Ok. Slow down.

It’s not that they offered the most they could. Clearly it was possible to offer more at the expense of other players, other costs. 120 mil in revenue, you could find 2-3 more for Mark Stone. Ie:if you could afford ek at 11 you could afford Stone at 11. You just don’t think Stone=EK.

I’m not saying it’s worth it. That’s another argument. But if it was JUST money, they could have made it happen and chose not too.

More likely there was hesitancy from both sides.1- Management not seeing more as worth it, which is a hockey debate. And 2- Stone not wanting to play for this team/management/market/etc. which is a heated debate with no end in sight lol

 

[RaMai]

Huh? Who is blaming the fans?

Senators offered the most they could. They couldn’t touch Vegas and yes, it sucked. I am not going to blame the Senators. Mark Stone negotiated up to the last minute. Doesn’t exactly sound desperate to leave , does he?

Duchene was upfront with management and he wanted to play in the playoffs. Loved the team. Happy with the money.

Maybe fans read too much into things.

Or ignore to much, when it walks like a duck...

 

[Micklebot]

And yet you continually refuse to acknowledge that Ottawa did very , very good with very, very papered numbers. The articles are there. You can go figure out why they papered it, it is old news.

There are many reasons for the flawed market. You can pinpoint it directly to one person, but when they were giving 3000 away in 09, he was pretty ****ing quiet back then, and generally beloved.

It's worth noting some context behind "giving away 3000". As I recall, the NHL changed how it defined a paid ticket that year to not include things like bonus tickets for early bird STH renewals which was a big part of the Sens offeason ticket drive do to a really poor end to the season in 08-09 (they tripled their usual promo). The report was also from early in the season, with about 19 home games having been played. Leeder mentioned that disproportionate amount of the bonus tickets were used in the first half of the year, suggesting that the 3000 number was inflated compared to projections for the year. The sens also indicated they adjusted their marketing strategy after that season so that the league wouldn't account for their incentives as unpaid tickets.

In the end, anytime you get numbers like these, there's always so much missing context that it's hard to really draw informed conclusions. It would be nice to know gate revenue for all the teams, as that's far more informative than paid attendance, but we'll never get that.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

There are 31 teams in the NHL that "paper" their numbers. Just fyi.

Don't fall for yet another deflection.

 

[coladin]

It's worth noting some context behind "giving away 3000". As I recall, the NHL changed how it defined a paid ticket that year to not include things like bonus tickets for early bird STH renewals which was a big part of the Sens offeason ticket drive do to a really poor end to the season in 08-09 (they tripled their usual promo). The report was also from early in the season, with about 19 home games having been played. Leeder mentioned that disproportionate amount of the bonus tickets were used in the first half of the year, suggesting that the 3000 number was inflated compared to projections for the year. The sens also indicated they adjusted their marketing strategy after that season so that the league wouldn't account for their incentives as unpaid tickets.

In the end, anytime you get numbers like these, there's always so much missing context that it's hard to really draw informed conclusions. It would be nice to know gate revenue for all the teams, as that's far more informative than paid attendance, but we'll never get that.

The article was quite clear on how three teams dragged NHL numbers down. Don’t know why that is hard to accept. It is what it is back then. Ottawa gave away 6 times more than the next closest Canadian market. I think the context is pretty evident.

 

[Micklebot]

Looks like Dorion has exceeded the 1000 high five limit... so much winning in this thread that we have to lock it but feel free to start a new one, maybe it can be for hugs.