The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part IV

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Multigrain

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Sep 9, 2018
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And trade away the farm for a player thinking he's going to put you over the top immediately
And when he doesn't within 2 months decide to trade the best player on your team for financial and phylosphical reasons
And not be able to hang on to your player you just traded for and the player most regard as the best player and leader on your team and the next best scorer after these two
And say its the best day in your career after trading away your best player and leader
And name a player you put on waivers at the start of the year along with another couple of polarizing D men; one who is a 7th Dman on most good NHL teams, if that; and the other who has been played over his head most of his career and consistently mismanages the puck to the point of giving it away to opponents without a hockey stick to play with as your leaders in a rebuild.

Forgot about the laughable return on Hoffman; And the make your mark on the league deal with Zibanejad when he first took over.

The GM our owner deserves
Explain to me why Ceci is constantly getting praise from the coaching staff?
Is Marty Raymond still coaching? Falling behind on my Sens news.
 

danielpalfredsson

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Aug 14, 2013
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Dorion did not want Methot that badly considering be went for a 2020 2nd way back in 2017. That's basically the same as a mid to late 2017 3rd given how waiting 3 years docks the value.

Granted, I do not know if the price was different for us. McPhee was acting in a certain way due to his "rules" he set for teams making deals with him at expansion.

What I think happened is that we would have paid to get Methot back, but we needed to move Phaneuf to facilitate it. This was obviously because of our well publicized 68M budget. The Sens were shopping Phaneuf hard at the entry draft which was after they already lost Methot.
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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Dorion did not want Methot that badly considering be went for a 2020 2nd way back in 2017. That's basically the same as a mid to late 2017 3rd given how waiting 3 years docks the value.

Granted, I do not know if the price was different for us. McPhee was acting in a certain way due to his "rules" he set for teams making deals with him at expansion.

What I think happened is that we would have paid to get Methot back, but we needed to move Phaneuf to facilitate it. This was obviously because of our well publicized 68M budget. The Sens were shopping Phaneuf hard at the entry draft which was after they already lost Methot.

I think I remember there being speculation at the time that the price was higher for us than it was for Dallas (even post expansion). I'm sure it had something to do with McPhee not wanting to look weak and/or flustered by the process.

You're probably not wrong about the budget coming into play though, as that has affected every move the team has made for the last few years.
 

Micklebot

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Emotions aside I don't think 1/3 of the teams in the league would consider EK this summer at $10x7 or whatever he will be asking for. There is no question for a short term deal he is worth that money but for a cash strapped franchise 8 years at max cash is hard to justify. Every team would like to have him but recognize that committing to that type of deal would be too risky and limit other payouts to other players who need contracts which may represent more certainty. It also exposes an extra dman on every team that signs him ahead of Seattle.
Most teams just don't have the flexibility to add that big of a contract, but i bet the vast majority would sign him if they could shed a contact to make it work. The problem is teams don't forcast for adding that kind of contract so it has to coincide with something else coming off the books or a bigger than expected jump in the cap.
 

Micklebot

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Apr 27, 2010
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Dorion did not want Methot that badly considering be went for a 2020 2nd way back in 2017. That's basically the same as a mid to late 2017 3rd given how waiting 3 years docks the value.

Granted, I do not know if the price was different for us. McPhee was acting in a certain way due to his "rules" he set for teams making deals with him at expansion.

What I think happened is that we would have paid to get Methot back, but we needed to move Phaneuf to facilitate it. This was obviously because of our well publicized 68M budget. The Sens were shopping Phaneuf hard at the entry draft which was after they already lost Methot.

While that may be true, the point remains that he had no issue with keeping Methot so you can't really credit him for reading the tea leaves and knowing regression would make his contract an anchor.
 
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pzeeman

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I think I remember there being speculation at the time that the price was higher for us than it was for Dallas (even post expansion). I'm sure it had something to do with McPhee not wanting to look weak and/or flustered by the process.

You're probably not wrong about the budget coming into play though, as that has affected every move the team has made for the last few years.
Everyone on the planet knew that Marc Methot was worth way more to the Senators than to 30 other organizations, and I'm sure McPhee played it that way too.

I'm sure the budget played a big part and that the feeling was that another cheaper player (Claesson, Harpur), or combination of cheaper players (Clasesson/Harpur on ice, Oduya in locker room) could bring what he brought. Bad guess.
 
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stempniaksen

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Most teams just don't have the flexibility to add that big of a contract, but i bet the vast majority would sign him if they could shed a contact to make it work. The problem is teams don't forcast for adding that kind of contract so it has to coincide with something else coming off the books or a bigger than expected jump in the cap.

Wasn't the jump to $83 million next year kind of unexpected? Not the jump itself, but the fact it's going up $3.5 million.

Right now it looks like ~22 teams could fit in a $10 million salary rather easily next season (as easily as a $10 million dollar contract in a salary cap league could be I suppose).

I don't think EK or his agents are too worried at this point, imo.
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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Can't agree.

The Sens will always be at the floor because no player will resign with the team long term as long as Melnyk remains the owner.

Melnyk doesn't have the money anymore to be a qualified NHL owner: He used to be a bona fide billionaire but after the Biovail scandal & divorce not so much anymore, not to mention he's a meddling lunatic but that's another story.

Melnyk has been liquidating his assets for a few years now: no horse racing, no Bert's Barbados, and the Sens are the final piece remaining. I think Melnyk is holding out and will sell the team when the price is right - can't blame him for that.

Maybe I'm out to lunch but I honestly believe the more fans who refuse to go to the games, the quicker it will force Melnyk into bankruptcy and sell the team.
Just more equalization money. Arizona is still here.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Amazing that having to rebuild could arguably be traced back to something as simple as the loss of their top pairing in Methot and essentially Karlsson after the surgery.
 

Burrowsaurus

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Mar 20, 2013
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Amazing that having to rebuild could arguably be traced back to something as simple as the loss of their top pairing in Methot and essentially Karlsson after the surgery.
“Having” to rebuild traces back to all our stars contracts being up around the same time. That’s essentially it. I think if we go far last year. We’re in the same position today.
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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Funny when you google"Ottawa Senators unsold playoff tickets" the first articles that appear seem to be mostly about blaming Melnyk. Also love the quote below from this Deadspin article.

https://deadspin.com/shut-up-about-ottawas-attendance-1795506802

"I’d also urge everyone to stop thinking of fandom as something quantifiable, or of attendance as any sort of effective measure. If a fan does not want to pay to attend a game, that fan is 100 percent not at fault—there are no obligations here, or for any fan of any team at any time. If a company isn’t providing a product or service that fans are willing to pay for, the failing is on the company and its executives—the NHL and Melnyk, here—and it’s up to them to figure out where they went wrong."

Sens staffers in here are about to tell me that I am making things up again.
An article leading up to Game 6 against the Pens. Yeah, let's all shut up about attendance lol. Only because it was major news, but let's ignore the blak eye and give the other eye a free shot. Oh yes, leading up to Game 6 , the product was terrrrible.
 

coladin

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He is still harping on Ottawa fans for what he thinks is bad.

Why don't you go cheer for another team who's fans are 'better'.

Seems like you have more passion for fan participation than you do the team itself.
I assume this is directed towards me. I didn't harp on any Ottawa fans. Someone wanted to thrash the Winnipeg fans, which I thought was pretty rich and for that fan who did that, is embarrassing. I didn't mention anything about Ottawa being good or bad fans. If the attendance is not good, it doesn't criticize those who went, does it?

Please do not tell people how to be a fan. We all are fans. Period. You shouldn't criticize how someone cheers for their team .
 

RaMai

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Mar 6, 2011
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An article leading up to Game 6 against the Pens. Yeah, let's all shut up about attendance lol. Only because it was major news, but let's ignore the blak eye and give the other eye a free shot. Oh yes, leading up to Game 6 , the product was terrrrible.
What is your goal with this? We get it, EM is great (even tough you say yourself we need a new owner) and it's the fault of the bad fans in this market. So the conclusion should be they have to relocate, or is your plan you, yourself, will convince all those bad fans to think like you and spend any available dollar with the teams owners interest in mind?
 

RaMai

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I assume this is directed towards me. I didn't harp on any Ottawa fans. Someone wanted to thrash the Winnipeg fans, which I thought was pretty rich and for that fan who did that, is embarrassing. I didn't mention anything about Ottawa being good or bad fans. If the attendance is not good, it doesn't criticize those who went, does it?

Please do not tell people how to be a fan. We all are fans. Period. You shouldn't criticize how someone cheers for their team .
Jets lose home-ice advantage but that’s not likely to faze them
Those 125 unsold tickets where probably bad Ottawa folks who relocated to Winnipeg.
 

stempniaksen

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Oct 12, 2008
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I assume this is directed towards me. I didn't harp on any Ottawa fans. Someone wanted to thrash the Winnipeg fans, which I thought was pretty rich and for that fan who did that, is embarrassing. I didn't mention anything about Ottawa being good or bad fans. If the attendance is not good, it doesn't criticize those who went, does it?

Please do not tell people how to be a fan. We all are fans. Period. You shouldn't criticize how someone cheers for their team .

What are you, the mayor of Winnipeg? :laugh:

I mentioned as an aside in my post and you took that nugget and ran with it. I said Winnipeg didn't sell out either (fact) and that it isn't brought up as much as Ottawa (fact). I never compared the two cities, team, organizations or fanbases.

If that one line was "trashing" the Jets fan base I can't wait to hear what you think you do around here with Sens fans.

Gimme a break, lol.
 

Pierre from Orleans

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May 9, 2007
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I assume this is directed towards me. I didn't harp on any Ottawa fans. Someone wanted to thrash the Winnipeg fans, which I thought was pretty rich and for that fan who did that, is embarrassing. I didn't mention anything about Ottawa being good or bad fans. If the attendance is not good, it doesn't criticize those who went, does it?

Please do not tell people how to be a fan. We all are fans. Period. You shouldn't criticize how someone cheers for their team .
The irony in your post is astonishing.

You are known around here for calling Ottawa fans bad am I not right? For not supporting the team by purchasing tickets. For not selling out playoff games? Criticizing the market.

You directly compare this fanbase against other Canadian fanbases and its level of support. Isn't that criticizing how fans cheer for their team?
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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What is your goal with this? We get it, EM is great (even tough you say yourself we need a new owner) and it's the fault of the bad fans in this market. So the conclusion should be they have to relocate, or is your plan you, yourself, will convince all those bad fans to think like you and spend any available dollar with the teams owners interest in mind?
Not calling anyone bad fans. Simply a response to what someone posted. That is usually the goal on forums. We have a lot of fantastic fans, not sure why you want to keep bringing up bad fans because, who are you to say what is a bad fan?

I have said countless times, everyone is to blame.
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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What are you, the mayor of Winnipeg? :laugh:

I mentioned as an aside in my post and you took that nugget and ran with it. I said Winnipeg didn't sell out either (fact) and that it isn't brought up as much as Ottawa (fact). I never compared the two cities, team, organizations or fanbases.

If that one line was "trashing" the Jets fan base I can't wait to hear what you think you do around here with Sens fans.

Gimme a break, lol.
Winnipeg had attendance listed at 15,321. Fact. Singles were made available , whether from sponsors, the NHl , etc...but all information states that they were very likely resale, and at super high prices. You went the Winnipeg angle, and I just stated that it was a very bad angle to take, considering what the heck was going on outside Winnipeg's arena as well.

Yeah, I seized on that nugget alright. It is just what people do here, step on the heads of others to lift themselves up.
 
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coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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The irony in your post is astonishing.

You are known around here for calling Ottawa fans bad am I not right? For not supporting the team by purchasing tickets. For not selling out playoff games? Criticizing the market.

You directly compare this fanbase against other Canadian fanbases and its level of support. Isn't that criticizing how fans cheer for their team?

Ah ah ah, not since the new year. No one likes that, but everyone seems really butthurt about it from the past. Still. Those opinions weren't exclusive to myself, back in the coladin meanie days. It was very popular in every other Canadian market, and many American ones.

Comparing attendance figures because the information is out there. Is that against the law now? Maybe conclusions vary but I didn't realize I am supposed to say "fantastic" to please you and others around here about Ottawa's empty arena. How Ottawa cheers, I have no complaints when I go, we cheer like everyone else. Yay when we score, boo at penalties and some Go Sens Go chants. If someone wants to be quiet and support their team that is also their right.

I will say , as @stempniaksen said, and I completely agree, is that this market is flawed. You can go ahead and figure out why.
 

coladin

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Sep 18, 2009
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True.

But players will resign in Arizona. They won't here.
And it's because of the owner here.

Big difference
Ottawa never had problems in the past with this owner. It was the worst time to have the pending UFAs come up, and I don't blame any of them for leaving. Money talks, and while Ottawa made acceptable offers, they couldn't , or wouldn't get to the point that Vegas was at. Hopefully, the lack of stability will be a thing of the past when the new batch of replacements are due for their payday. Or maybe there will never be the stability that fans will want.

But Ottawa will be propped up, and Melnyk will be coddled with the every increasing equalization payments.
 

RaMai

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Mar 6, 2011
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Ah ah ah, not since the new year. No one likes that, but everyone seems really ******** about it from the past. Still. Those opinions weren't exclusive to myself, back in the coladin meanie days. It was very popular in every other Canadian market, and many American ones.

Comparing attendance figures because the information is out there. Is that against the law now? Maybe conclusions vary but I didn't realize I am supposed to say "fantastic" to please you and others around here about Ottawa's empty arena. How Ottawa cheers, I have no complaints when I go, we cheer like everyone else. Yay when we score, boo at penalties and some Go Sens Go chants. If someone wants to be quiet and support their team that is also their right.

I will say , as @stempniaksen said, and I completely agree, is that this market is flawed. You can go ahead and figure out why.
But when people point you in the direction that the flawed market is in direct correlation to the batshit crazy owner and his out of touch front office you dispute this...
Look the attendance numbers up, Ottawa did very, very good for a small market under Melnyk until he decided to be an hockey exec.
 

Grizwald

Registered User
Dec 19, 2017
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Ah ah ah, not since the new year. No one likes that, but everyone seems really ******** about it from the past. Still. Those opinions weren't exclusive to myself, back in the coladin meanie days. It was very popular in every other Canadian market, and many American ones.

Comparing attendance figures because the information is out there. Is that against the law now? Maybe conclusions vary but I didn't realize I am supposed to say "fantastic" to please you and others around here about Ottawa's empty arena. How Ottawa cheers, I have no complaints when I go, we cheer like everyone else. Yay when we score, boo at penalties and some Go Sens Go chants. If someone wants to be quiet and support their team that is also their right.

I will say , as @stempniaksen said, and I completely agree, is that this market is flawed. You can go ahead and figure out why.

Why is it flawed?

For years the Sens were in the top half if not top ten revenue generating teams in the NHL.

If the Sens were sold tomorrow to Devcore and a new arena built, with the Sens talent youth pool, the fans would be back. Most importantly, corporate sponsors would be lining up to support the Senators.

And corporate sponsorship, especially in the future, is where the big money is going to be. Melnyk has driven away most high tech companies and other big businesses. What's left supporting the Sens...Joe's Pizza Shop?
 
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