Speculation: The Official Horrible Trade Proposals Thread: Part 2, Have a Drink

[DougieSmash]

zykov/ aho/ tt
mcginn/ staal/ williams
ferland/ necas/ svech
foegele/ backes/ maenalanen
martinook, pdg, saarela, kuokkonen, wallmark, roy, gauthier

i'd do it. krug is crazy good.

 

[bleedgreen]

I understand now wanting to break up Slavin-Pesce, but I think it's likely Slavin-Hamilton will be the top pairing. The staff tried many times last year to split those two up for a more balanced top 4, but obviously that wasn't working with Hanifin/Faulk. Girordano-Hamilton was one of the best pairings in the league last year and I expect we'll try to recreate that with Slavin-Hamilton. Slavin-Pesce won't be entirely dead though, they'll still be our top PK unit and will be on the ice together in crucial defensive situations.

That's why we should be looking more for a puck-moving top 4 LHD to pair with Pesce. Otherwise, I'm not sure who else besides Hamilton we'd be able to use on the PP, Slavin might be the second-most offensively skilled guy in our six. I like Gardiner for that role, but his expiring contract is probably a non-starter.

A deeper and more balanced top 4 would be Hamilton with someone else, and Slavin/Pesce together. Putting Slavin and Hamilton together is stacking the top pairing, and is the exact opposite of balancing the top 4. Having SlavinPesce as the shutdown pair and still having Hamilton on the other pair makes us a lot more dangerous if they find someone suitable to be paired with Hamilton.

 

[Buenos Necas]

I'd argue putting your two best shutdown defenders together at even strength is more stacking the top pairing than putting Slavin and Hamilton together is. I'm sure there'll be teams it makes sense to do that against, last year I remember the top lines for STL and NJ giving us fits since they were somewhat overloaded. Also looking at the stylistic composition our our group (assuming Faulk does get moved), it makes more sense to add another defender who can contribute on the PP, and it'd probably be better to pair them with Pesce than Hamilton.

 

[GoldiFox]

I’m not sure that Slavin being an A+ defender necessarily makes him a good support D for a guy like Hamilton. Within the Slavin-Pesce pairing Pesce acts more as the safety net for Slavin. It works because Slavin is dynamic and likes to carry the puck on top of being responsible. Put a guy next to Slavin that should be the offensive focal point (like Faulk last year) and it dampens both ends of Slavin’s game.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Slavin didn’t work with Faulk. Hanifin didn’t work with Faulk. Fleury didn’t work with Faulk.

I don’t know that putting Hamilton with Slavin is the best balance on D, but Faulk not working with Slavin isn’t a good reason to not do it.

 

[Moosetache]

Look, Faulk wouldn't work with Lidstrom. The guy is just brutal defensively. He has offensive ability no doubt, but he gets......well never mind. beating horse or something like that

 

[Moosetache]

I'd like to give Slavin/Hamilton a shot. I think that could be a top 3-5 pair in the league. Unless of course we get De Haan (unlikely), in which case I'd leave Slavin/Pesce together. If somehow we got a guy like Krug that would obviously mean you'd be splitting up Slavin and Pesce

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Look, Faulk wouldn't work with Lidstrom.

Ian f***ing White worked with Lidstrom so I’m pretty sure Faulk would have.

 

[Moosetache]

Ian ****ing White worked with Lidstrom so I’m pretty sure Faulk would have.

LOL...ok, agreed. Sorry, I got excited. Jesus, Lidstrom must have been amazing.

slightly different topic: would anyone entertain Skinner plus a pick (1st or 2nd?) plus prospect for Panarin and hope we could resign him? I'd say resigning him would be a 20% chance.

 

[SaskCanesFan]

Swap out Zykov for Ferland and I like the lines.

Ferland scored early last year when Gadreau was on fire then he couldn't score at all.

Zykov scored in the AHL and then complemented Aho and TT. I view the trade as Hamilton being the key and Ferland being an improvement on Martinook who can add some offense to for Rask and Foegele, but not playing on a scoring line.

Yeah I'm fine with that too. Wasn't sure how to organize the 3 non Nino LWs, so whatever works.

A deeper and more balanced top 4 would be Hamilton with someone else, and Slavin/Pesce together. Putting Slavin and Hamilton together is stacking the top pairing, and is the exact opposite of balancing the top 4. Having SlavinPesce as the shutdown pair and still having Hamilton on the other pair makes us a lot more dangerous if they find someone suitable to be paired with Hamilton.

I think we're more dangerous with a better balance of O and D from the back end. I remember late in the season someone here posted an article of how little offense the Canes got from their D, especially compared to other good young defences they were compared to, like Nashville. If Slavin Pesce are the shut down pair, Hamilton gets a reliable defensive partner, and Fleury TVR are the third pair, that's potentially even LESS offense, for a team that really needs scoring help. With Slavin Hamilton you could potentially have a top 5 pairing, get an offensive guy to go with Pesce brings more balance to the top 4. Otherwise it's basically Hamilton scoring from the back end then 5 defensive focused guys. That doesn't scream balance to me.

I'd argue putting your two best shutdown defenders together at even strength is more stacking the top pairing than putting Slavin and Hamilton together is. I'm sure there'll be teams it makes sense to do that against, last year I remember the top lines for STL and NJ giving us fits since they were somewhat overloaded. Also looking at the stylistic composition our our group (assuming Faulk does get moved), it makes more sense to add another defender who can contribute on the PP, and it'd probably be better to pair them with Pesce than Hamilton.

This is where I'm at.

 

[SlavinAway]

I'd like to give Slavin/Hamilton a shot. I think that could be a top 3-5 pair in the league. Unless of course we get De Haan (unlikely), in which case I'd leave Slavin/Pesce together. If somehow we got a guy like Krug that would obviously mean you'd be splitting up Slavin and Pesce

You doubted yourself.

 

[SlavinAway]

What about Faulk for Kadri?

 

[MinJaBen]

What about Faulk for Kadri?

I’d do that pretty easily, but Toronto would be crazy to give up that contract.

 

[spockBokk]

Kadri would absolutely be my top target. I’d do Faulk plus Skinner with 50% retention to make that happen, maybe with a small add from TOR. I highly doubt though TOR wants the break up their depth at C though.

Maybe we could trick Dubas into thinking that Skinner or Faulk plus Rask for Kadri makes his team better...TOR’s cap situation probably kills that though. Well, that and the fact Rask sucked last year.

 

[Growler]

What does Carolina need? (assuming for Faulk and now with deHaan in the boat)

 

[What the Faulk]

Kadri is probably unavailable, and besides, you don't have to panic offer Faulk + Skinner to anybody. Sit tight and play hardball. If not, keep them. It's not like they won't help you win this season.

 

[Trapper]

Kadri is probably unavailable, and besides, you don't have to panic offer Faulk + Skinner to anybody. Sit tight and play hardball. If not, keep them. It's not like they won't help you win this season.

Kadri would be unavailable at this time barring a trade that really proved to be a giant win for us.

What the Leafs really need is a RHD capable of playing solid, consistent defense. Able to skate and move the puck efficiently (not a required offensive dynamo, simply get the puck quickly to the forwards). The ability to disrupt the other teams cycle and withstand forwards battling down low.
That's what we really need. Not an offensive D player with inconsistent, sometimes questionable D.

 

[CandyCanes]

Skinner’s concussions got brought up in the Canes/Avs trade thread. Drink up errrbodyyy this might be the last Skinner concussion concern post we will ever have to drink to.

 

[jkutswings]

What does Carolina need? (assuming for Faulk and now with deHaan in the boat)

That's my question as well. Faulk is definitely a trade chip, and the market will probably only go up once Karlsson gets resolved. But assuming you guys don't find the right sucker to drop a prospective top center in your laps...what do you think is a realistic yet desirable return?

 

[Lempo]

Skinner’s concussions got brought up in the Canes/Avs trade thread. Drink up errrbodyyy this might be the last Skinner concussion concern post we will ever have to drink to.

We are one post away so.

 

[MinJaBen]

That's my question as well. Faulk is definitely a trade chip, and the market will probably only go up once Karlsson gets resolved. But assuming you guys don't find the right sucker to drop a prospective top center in your laps...what do you think is a realistic yet desirable return?

Realistically, the answer you get will probably be different between which group of fans you ask, or if you are talking to the front office. Some fans want a dramatic goalie upgrade or a #1c (I don't think we can get that for either Faulk or Skinner or both), some want a "scoring forward", some are happy with futures while others think that will leave our team too short on goals next year. For me, I think the best use of Skinner or Faulk or both is a futures heavy return that we can then flip for whoever might be available somewhere else in the league. I think with the moves that have been made and the rookies available that we can adequately fill the roster, so a "hockey trade" is not necessary.

 

[jkutswings]

Realistically, the answer you get will probably be different between which group of fans you ask, or if you are talking to the front office. Some fans want a dramatic goalie upgrade or a #1c (I don't think we can get that for either Faulk or Skinner or both), some want a "scoring forward", some are happy with futures while others think that will leave our team too short on goals next year. For me, I think the best use of Skinner or Faulk or both is a futures heavy return that we can then flip for whoever might be available somewhere else in the league. I think with the moves that have been made and the rookies available that we can adequately fill the roster, so a "hockey trade" is not necessary.

That's fine. Wings fan here, and I totally see where you're coming from. Some posters on the Detroit boards are trying to say that the following proposal would be fair:

Faulk for Andreas Athanasiou, Evgeny Svechnikov, and Darren Helm (salary partially retained)

And I keep trying to tell them that Carolina would hang up the phone, but I thought I'd sniff around to see if I could better gauge a realistic return (if it was in roster players, since Detroit isn't in a position to be dealing picks).

 

[MinJaBen]

That's fine. Wings fan here, and I totally see where you're coming from. Some posters on the Detroit boards are trying to say that the following proposal would be fair:

Faulk for Andreas Athanasiou, Evgeny Svechnikov, and Darren Helm (salary partially retained)

And I keep trying to tell them that Carolina would hang up the phone, but I thought I'd sniff around to see if I could better gauge a realistic return (if it was in roster players, since Detroit isn't in a position to be dealing picks).

Don't need Helm as we have a bunch of kids that are pushing for the same spot at a much cheaper cost. Don't want Svechnikov as it will only create bad blood later when he is cut or traded. I like Athanasiou, but he is not enough. Would take your 1st next year, but you'd be crazy to give that up given the Wings rebuild. Honestly, I just don't see a trade between the two clubs for Faulk that I'd take before exhausting all my other options.

 

[GoldiFox]

That's fine. Wings fan here, and I totally see where you're coming from. Some posters on the Detroit boards are trying to say that the following proposal would be fair:

Faulk for Andreas Athanasiou, Evgeny Svechnikov, and Darren Helm (salary partially retained)

And I keep trying to tell them that Carolina would hang up the phone, but I thought I'd sniff around to see if I could better gauge a realistic return (if it was in roster players, since Detroit isn't in a position to be dealing picks).

Don't see much of a fit with Detroit. Faulk isn't pulling Larkin/Mantha and there isn't much appeal in AA/Nyquist versus what the Canes currently have. I see them much more interested in players like Zucker, Nino, Coyle, Hayes, etc. A higher caliber scorer or hopeful top-6 Center.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I'd come away disappointed. Not only would the Canes walk away without an equivalent roster player that would offset the loss of Skinner in the short and mid-term, but also wouldn't even save much money, if any at all, in the process of converting Faulk into Detroit's expendable futures.

That's probably representative of the best Detroit could do; I hope he isn't traded there.