The Never-Too-Early 2019 NHL Entry Draft - Were not picking at 31

[MyBudJT]

The GM shouldn't try to run the draft. That's what Doug MacLean did and it tends to be a disaster. You should trust the people below you. In actuality, that draft should have basically been run fully by John Lilly and Speltz, since he decided to promote them slightly after. It wasn't like our previous drafting was so bad, that the draft list should have just been thrown out, and that is what has basically been implied by sources close to Dubas (Mirtle).

My point still stands... why are we blaming Dubas on last year's draft selections then?

 

[93LEAFS]

My point still stands... why are we blaming Dubas on last year's draft selections then?

Becuase he decided to make it his draft and tear up the draft board. He owns those picks. If we are going to credit him for Sandin, which he deserves, then he also deserves the fault for the very questionable picks.

 

[MyBudJT]

Becuase he decided to make it his draft and tear up the draft board. He owns those picks. If we are going to credit him for Sandin, which he deserves, then he also deserves the fault for the very questionable picks.

Okay, so we'll be all critical when he only had a month to prepare... makes sense...

 

[93LEAFS]

Okay, so we'll be all critical when he only had a month to prepare... makes sense...

So, do you think he deserves credit for the Sandin pick? You can't have it both ways.

 

[MyBudJT]

So, do you think he deserves credit for the Sandin pick? You can't have it both ways.

I think it was a good pick all-things considered. He did only have a month to prepare after all...

 

[93LEAFS]

I think it was a good pick all-things considered. He did only have a month to prepare after all...

One, the Leafs had a scouting staff that had a year to prepare, he should rely on their insights heavily even if he is changing what he wants valued. I just think it's ridiculous to say, well, Sandin is a good pick by Dubas (which I agree with), but everything that looks bad isn't on him because he only had a month. That isn't how you evaluate people.

 

[MyBudJT]

One, the Leafs had a scouting staff that had a year to prepare, he should rely on their insights heavily even if he is changing what he wants valued. I just think it's ridiculous to say, well, Sandin is a good pick by Dubas (which I agree with), but everything that looks bad isn't on him because he only had a month. That isn't how you evaluate people.

I didn't say that, did I?

 

[93LEAFS]

I didn't say that, did I?

That's basically what you are implying. That he shouldn't be at fault for what people think was bad, but that Sandin was good because he made that choice only having a month. He owns this draft class, there success and failures will be on him.

 

[4thline]

Who would people want in the pick ranges of 13-18 and 25-45?
Somethings gotta give salary wise, and if Dubas is smart it's resolved at/by the draft.

 

[93LEAFS]

Who would people want in the pick ranges of 13-18 and 25-45?
Somethings gotta give salary wise, and if Dubas is smart it's resolved at/by the draft.

13-18 probably Soderstrom.

 

[MyBudJT]

That's basically what you are implying. That he shouldn't be at fault for what people think was bad, but that Sandin was good because he made that choice only having a month. He owns this draft class, there success and failures will be on him.

Lol, not really.

I'm not pretending to know who was advocating for which player...

All we know is who we selected. At the end of the day, this was Lou's team one month before the draft, when Dubas took over. Its hardly fair to make any kind of criticism to a GM when he only had one month of preparation.

Your point was that the draft should have been run by Lilly and Speltz... how do we know it wasn't?

 

[93LEAFS]

Lol, not really.

I'm not pretending to know who was advocating for which player...

All we know is who we selected. At the end of the day, this was Lou's team one month before the draft, when Dubas took over. Its hardly fair to make any kind of criticism to a GM when he only had one month of preparation.

Your point was that the draft should have been run by Lilly and Speltz... how do we know it wasn't?

Dubas dramatically changed the draft board. That was reported at the time of his hire by Mirtle, who is Dubas's choice to leak out his side of the story.

Dubas was in the organization for 3 years prior. He shouldn't get a free pass because he got promoted a month before the draft.

 

[Morgs]

Who would people want in the pick ranges of 13-18 and 25-45?
Somethings gotta give salary wise, and if Dubas is smart it's resolved at/by the draft.

13-18:
Suzuki
Brink
Kaliyev

25-45:
Honka
Hoglander
Seider

 

[93LEAFS]

13-18:
Suzuki
Brink
Kaliyev

25-45:
Honka
Hoglander
Seider

I wouldn't touch Suzuki that high, he's fools gold. You seem to heavily favor stats, but in Suzuki's case, stats don't even make a very strong argument for him as a skill guy. I don't like Kaliyev, but I can at least see the screw it, the guy produces angle. I don't think Seider will be there at 25. He's a wildcard, but I think he'll go top 20.

 

[MyBudJT]

Dubas dramatically changed the draft board. That was reported at the time of his hire by Mirtle, who is Dubas's choice to leak out his side of the story.

Dubas was in the organization for 3 years prior. He shouldn't get a free pass because he got promoted a month before the draft.

Right, but the scouts were scouting all season with Lou and/or Hunter's philisophy in mind, and not Dubas'... which is exactly my point... hardly fair to criticise a gm's draft when they had one month to prepare...

All I recall hearing was how Hunter originally wanted to draft McLeod, but Dubas was targetting other players (Good!). Do you have more information that was provided?

 

[93LEAFS]

Right, but the scouts were scouting all season with Lou and/or Hunter's philisophy in mind, and not Dubas'... which is exactly my point... hardly fair to criticise a gm's draft when they had one month to prepare...

All I recall hearing was how Hunter originally wanted to draft McLeod, but Dubas was targetting other players (Good!). Do you have more information that was provided?

The McLeod thing was bull-shit and something floated to make Hunter look bad. No one is locked into one guy at 25. That isn't how teams draft. It was just an example of someone deemed low-upside, while Dubas wanted to be more risk/reward. The draft has way too many moving pieces for you to lock into one guy. An off the board pick or even slight reach can throw a draft into chaos.

Scouts evaluate traits, a pivot should be easy to make if there is an emphasis on something else.

 

[MyBudJT]

The McLeod thing was bull-**** and something floated to make Hunter look bad. No one is locked into one guy at 25. That isn't how teams draft. It was just an example of someone deemed low-upside, while Dubas wanted to be more risk/reward. The draft has way too many moving pieces for you to lock into one guy. An off the board pick or even slight reach can throw a draft into chaos.

Scouts evaluate traits, a pivot should be easy to make if there is an emphasis on something else.

So, what other information was out there then?

How are you so certain that that information was false? I hear all the time how teams will put extra effort in scouting guys they like... Was it not reported that the Leafs scouted McLeod fairly heavily? Also, if we can agree that teams will scout guys the like a little more heavily, then that too goes into what I was saying earlier of how a change in drafting philosophy could change how a team approaches which player they scout.

 

[Walshy7]

The McLeod thing was bull-**** and something floated to make Hunter look bad. No one is locked into one guy at 25. That isn't how teams draft. It was just an example of someone deemed low-upside, while Dubas wanted to be more risk/reward. The draft has way too many moving pieces for you to lock into one guy. An off the board pick or even slight reach can throw a draft into chaos.

Scouts evaluate traits, a pivot should be easy to make if there is an emphasis on something else.

McLeod certainly fits Hunters fetish for size, I could see him desperately wanting him. I highly doubt that is true at all it was floated to make hunter look bad, hunter's record in the previous drafts do that on their own how many failed D giants are we at now?

 

[Walshy7]

So, what other information was out there then?

How are you so certain that that information was false? I hear all the time how teams will put extra effort in scouting guys they like... Was it not reported that the Leafs scouted McLeod fairly heavily? Also, if we can agree that teams will scout guys the like a little more heavily, then that too goes into what I was saying earlier of how a change in drafting philosophy could change how a team approaches which player they scout.

he hangs around with a lot of guys who are friends with Hunter I believe, hence his heavy favoritism to hunter.

He is a great prospect poster, hands down best on leafs board and one of the best on HF. BUT he now has heavy bias built into scouting reports because hunter wasn't selected as GM, you can trace all the little digs back through his posting history since dubas was hired

 

[93LEAFS]

McLeod certainly fits Hunters fetish for size, I could see him desperately wanting him. I highly doubt that is true at all it was floated to make hunter look bad, hunter's record in the previous drafts do that on their own how many failed D giants are we at now?

Which centers did we draft at all that looked like McLeod? Size fetish? You mean the guy who drafted a 5'7 130 Mitch Marner, and then took him again at 4 over a smooth skating 6'2 defender? Yes, he drafted big defenders, but that never carried over to forwards. I'd also add, don't you think the emphasis on size may have been a directive by Lou?

It was a planted one-sided piece to show how Dubas was going to approach the draft, through Dubas's preferred mouthpiece (Mirtle).

he hangs around with a lot of guys who are friends with Hunter I believe, hence his heavy favoritism to hunter.

He is a great prospect poster, hands down best on leafs board and one of the best on HF. BUT he now has heavy bias built into scouting reports because hunter wasn't selected as GM, you can trace all the little digs back through his posting history since dubas was hired

Heavy favoritism? I'm probably more down on some of Hunter's picks than a bunch of people here. You don't see me pimping Bracco in the prospect threads. I rarely even bring them up. I think he did a good job. He wasn't the super-scout some people here claimed until it was Hunter vs Dubas for the job, and he isn't the terrible only draft giants guy that people make him out to be now. He did a good job over his 3 years here compared to the terrible work of the Dave Morrison regime, who somehow is now in Mark Hunter's chair (although, they've basically let Wes Clark run am scouting this year). It's just any time I challenge something Dubas has done, apparently, I never criticize Hunter but only Dubas. Rasanen was a bad pick, Korshkov is tracking to be one, etc. I still think Durzi was a terrible pick, and SDA wasn't only a terrible pick but it made no sense to give him an ELC.

A bunch of people who now bash Hunter's previous picks, praised the ground he walked on up until March of last year.

Seriously though, when is the last time I've defended or pimped a Hunter pick? I watch the OHL the most and know the most people in that league. So, I'm pretty aware of how people are playing and looking in it. I'd bash Rasanen, but I don't really watch the Mestis very often. If I really wanted to bash Dubas and had an agenda against him, I would attack him over the contracts, lack of adding grit, Sparks, and stuff. But, I'm rarely involved in those threads. And, I'd be faking outrage on some of those things if I did. But, I never really get into that. I give him credit when he does something I like (getting JT, trading for Muzzin), and voice my opinion of what I don't (some of his hires, and aspects of this draft).

 

[Nithoniniel]

@93LEAFS is as good as they come. I don't think he is pro-Hunter/anti-Dubas just because that's how his opinion on certain prospects land. It should take more than that to start going after a posters credibility. There's nothing more annoying than posting earnest arguments for your case and have it all dismissed because others deem to know your mind better than yourself.

Hunter was a bit of a letdown though. With how hyped he was coming in, I expected him to hit on more prospects than he seems to have done. Of course, you never know how much of that was being restricted by GM. He was promised a lot of autonomy by Shanahan, but I doubt that Lou bought into that.

 

[Duffman955]

I wouldn't touch Suzuki that high, he's fools gold. You seem to heavily favor stats, but in Suzuki's case, stats don't even make a very strong argument for him as a skill guy. I don't like Kaliyev, but I can at least see the screw it, the guy produces angle. I don't think Seider will be there at 25. He's a wildcard, but I think he'll go top 20.

What's wrong with Kaliyev?

 

[93LEAFS]

What's wrong with Kaliyev?

Bad skater and has almost no compete when he doesn’t have the puck.

 

[Kiwi]

Who would people want in the pick ranges of 13-18 and 25-45?
Somethings gotta give salary wise, and if Dubas is smart it's resolved at/by the draft.

In the 13-18 range I'd take Seider

 

[4thline]

@Brock @93LEAFS

Meireles of any interest as a mid rounder?