The Management Thread - Time is a Flat Circle

[Sneezy]

They literally took nobody from Brackett's region under Gillis so there's nothing to judge him on either way. And Boeser would clearly have been strongly linked to Brackett given that he was playing in the director of scouting's home region.

It's not a 'twisted narrative'. All I'm giving are facts - and the facts are that all of our drafting successes are basically from one region - and those facts dispute YOUR twisted narrative that somehow Jim Benning - a man who wanted Olli Juolevi and Cody Glass over Matt Tkachuk and Elias Pettersson in consecutive drafts with top-5 picks - has 'fixed' our drafting with some sort of mystery system.

Per IMac Benning followed Brackett's recommendation on all #1 picks after the Juolevi disaster which was Benning's handiwork.

ah that’s clearer now, anything you say is a fact while anything someone else says that goes against your point of view is not.

 

[BB06]

If true I’d easily move a piece like Rafferty. I think with Hughes and Rathbone he’s redundant. Gaudette not so much.

 

[MS]

ah that’s clearer now, anything you say is a fact while anything someone else says that goes against your point of view is not.

The facts are that every 'hit' we had 2015-2018 was from Judd Brackett's region aside from Pettersson who we know he fought very hard for.

If you're going to try and claim that Jim Benning developed some Super Magic Scouting System™ to 'fix' the team's scouting, you need to provide evidence of that. Instead, the actual facts and evidence indicate the more likely explanation is that Judd Brackett was just really good at scouting his region and absolutely raking it with his selections of players he was most familiar with.

The historic biggest issue with our drafting has been our CHL scouting. There is no evidence whatsoever to show that it's improved, and in fact it actually seems to have gotten worse.

 

[RobertKron]

Calgary has 79 points. We have 78.

Oh, hey, they’ve dropped the “I swear I’m arguing in good faith” act. What a surprise.

 

[Hit the post]

Oh, hey, they’ve dropped the “I swear I’m arguing in good faith” act. What a surprise.

I'd trust Donnie's "faith" more.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The facts are that every 'hit' we had 2015-2018 was from Judd Brackett's region aside from Pettersson who we know he fought very hard for.

If you're going to try and claim that Jim Benning developed some Super Magic Scouting System™ to 'fix' the team's scouting, you need to provide evidence of that. Instead, the actual facts and evidence indicate the more likely explanation is that Judd Brackett was just really good at scouting his region and absolutely raking it with his selections of players he was most familiar with.

The historic biggest issue with our drafting has been our CHL scouting. There is no evidence whatsoever to show that it's improved, and in fact it actually seems to have gotten worse.

Judd Brackett was the Director Of Amateur Scouting...In that role, would he not be responsible for all scouts, in all regions.?

You're pushing 'his region' (which it was for 7 years before Benning promoted him)..and in that 7 years, how many players did Judd rake in ...?


One of the bigger proponents in drafting Jett Woo was Judd Brackett...Kind of blows your regional narrative out of the water.

 

[MS]

Judd Brackett was the Director Of Amateur Scouting...In that role, would he not be responsible for all scouts, in all regions.?

Theoretically yes, but he'd be much less familiar with players in other regions than his home region. And high rankings for those players would generally be driven by the regional scouts. If the Ontario scouts had a player ranked very lowly, it's highly unlikely that Brackett would roar in and be pushing to take that guy in the 2nd round.

You're pushing 'his region' (which it was for 7 years before Benning promoted him)..and in that 7 years, how many players did Judd rake in ...?

Again, we have no idea how he did. No players were taken from his region. He may have been completely hopeless, or he may have been pushing hard for good selections and Delorme/Crawford didn't value his input. We have no idea, and this is a nothing point that you keep trying to make.

That said, we apparently really liked Dylan Larkin (NDTP/USHL) in 2014, so I'm guessing Brackett had something to do with that. And good call, if so.

One of the bigger proponents in drafting Jett Woo was Judd Brackett...Kind of blows your regional narrative out of the water.

I haven't seen those sources, but even if so of course Brackett isn't going to go 100%. This isn't a 100% business.

We are talking about the balance of evidence. and what that evidence suggests.

And what that evidence is is :

1) If Jim Benning was capable of putting in a Magic Scouting System, he definitely didn't do it in Boston, where they were the worst-drafting team in the NHL during his tenure.

2) Jim Benning wanted Olli Juolevi and Cody Glass over Matthew Tkachuk and Elias Pettersson here, so whatever system they were using, the guy who created it doesn't seem to have had very good results with it.

3) Virtually all of the team's drafting success can be directly attributed to Judd Brackett in his home region. If there was a Magic Scouting System in place, you would expect to see improved results across the board, especially in the CHL where we've been notoriously terrible for years. But we don't. If anything the CHL drafting has gotten worse. What we see is our scouting absolutely dominating in one region and sucking ass everywhere else.

And when we're trying to explain what that evidence suggests, it suggests a vastly more likely probability that our scouting is still pretty mediocre outside of one region. It does not in any way suggest that Jim Benning is some sort of scouting guru who put in a Magic System to turn around our scouting across the board.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Theoretically yes, but he'd be much less familiar with players in other regions than his home region. And high rankings for those players would generally be driven by the regional scouts. If the Ontario scouts had a player ranked very lowly, it's highly unlikely that Brackett would roar in and be pushing to take that guy in the 2nd round.




Again, we have no idea how he did. No players were taken from his region. He may have been completely hopeless, or he may have been pushing hard for good selections and Delorme/Crawford didn't value his input. We have no idea, and this is a nothing point that you keep trying to make.

That said, we apparently really liked Dylan Larkin (NDTP/USHL) in 2014, so I'm guessing Brackett had something to do with that. And good call, if so.



I haven't seen those sources, but even if so of course Brackett isn't going to go 100%. This isn't a 100% business.

We are talking about the balance of evidence. and what that evidence suggests.

And what that evidence is is :

1) If Jim Benning was capable of putting in a Magic Scouting System, he definitely didn't do it in Boston, where they were the worst-drafting team in the NHL during his tenure.

2) Jim Benning wanted Olli Juolevi and Cody Glass over Matthew Tkachuk and Elias Pettersson here, so whatever system they were using, the guy who created it doesn't seem to have had very good results with it.

3) Virtually all of the team's drafting success can be directly attributed to Judd Brackett in his home region. If there was a Magic Scouting System in place, you would expect to see improved results across the board, especially in the CHL where we've been notoriously terrible for years. But we don't. If anything the CHL drafting has gotten worse. What we see is our scouting absolutely dominating in one region and sucking ass everywhere else.

And when we're trying to explain what that evidence suggests, it suggests a vastly more likely probability that our scouting is still pretty mediocre outside of one region. It does not in any way suggest that Jim Benning is some sort of scouting guru who put in a Magic System to turn around our scouting across the board.

1...Wayne Smith was the DOS for Boston,while it’s likely Benning had input.He was the AGM ..Can’t do two jobs at once

2.Benning wanted Juolevi,and also wanted Pettersson

3.There are effects of Bennings magic scouting system...The results 2014-19

4...Furthermore..all of the picks in the last 5 years were under the umbrella of Bennings identification system...No scouts were running rogue with their own system .

 

[ProstheticConscience]

1...Wayne Smith was the DOS for Boston,while it’s likely Benning had input.He was the AGM ..Can’t do two jobs at once

2.Benning wanted Juolevi,and also wanted Pettersson

3.There are effects of Bennings magic scouting system...The results 2014-19

So Benning wasn't responsible for Boston's scouting as AGM, but he's responsible for the Canucks' drafting as GM. Apparently he can do two jobs here, though.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So Benning wasn't responsible for Boston's scouting as AGM, but he's responsible for the Canucks' drafting as GM. Apparently he can do two jobs here, though.

Fair question...

He implemented a successful identification system for the scouts to use as a guideline .(How many GMs do that?)..and he gets the executive decision on at least the first two picks..

Should he get credit for actually ‘scouting’ the players..no..That goes to the scouts

 

[sting101]

So he wasn't responsible for the Bruins drafting then?

If he was does this make Weisbrod responsible for ours?

Does Buffalo count?

 

[sting101]

Or was it this guy? Thank goodness Linden gave Brandon the power to select Pettersson

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Fair question...

He implemented a successful identification system for the scouts to use as a guideline .(How many GMs do that?)..and he gets the executive decision on at least the first two picks..

Should he get credit for actually ‘scouting’ the players..no..That goes to the scouts

Uh-huh. So why didn't he implement that system in Boston?

 

[rypper]

Or was it this guy? Thank goodness Linden gave Brandon the power to select Pettersson

Brandon's area of focus wasn't Sweden, he usually focused on the Nordstroms region in his scouting duties.

 

[sting101]

Brandon's area of focus wasn't Sweden, he usually focused on the Nordstroms region in his scouting duties.

too funny

Brandon "Rack" Benning

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Uh-huh. So why didn't he implement that system in Boston?

Maybe he did..Maybe he didn’t..I don’t follow the Bruins

 

[RobertKron]

Or was it this guy? Thank goodness Linden gave Brandon the power to select Pettersson

geez, you’d think they could at least pay the guy a salary.

 

[MS]

1...Wayne Smith was the DOS for Boston,while it’s likely Benning had input.He was the AGM ..Can’t do two jobs at once

What on earth?

Benning oversaw the scouting arm of the organization in Boston (remember Chiarelli is a marketing/business guy with no scouting background) and would have had less on his plate in Boston than he did here. It should theoretically have been *easier* for him to implement his Magic System there.

For the record, though, I (and every other NHL GM who has commented on the subject) agree you can't do two jobs and the scouting director should run the draft.

2.Benning wanted Juolevi,and also wanted Pettersson

Benning liked Pettersson well enough but preferred Glass.

3.There are effects of Bennings magic scouting system...The results 2014-19

By the Ferraro link you yourself posted a few pages back, Benning didn't start implementing any of his ideas until September 2014. The 2014 draft (outside of Virtanen) was essentially a Gillis/Crawford draft as Benning himself has admitted he stood back and watched the process to evaluate. Interestingly, the mid rounds of that draft are better than anything that happened later. 2019 is too soon to judge - we don't know anything and I honestly have no feel for whether that was a good or bad draft. 2015-18 are the Benning drafts we have a reasonable feel on.

And the results 2015-18 absolutely suck outside of Judd Brackett's personal work and our drafting in the USHL.

4...Furthermore..all of the picks in the last 5 years were under the umbrella of Bennings identification system...No scouts were running rogue with their own system .

I've tried to avoid going down this path in the discussion, but in my opinion the entire notion of 'scouting systems' is garbage. And the entire way scouting systems are structured is garbage and an absurd relic of the 1980s when no games were videotaped. If I was running an NHL team I'd gut the entire scouting system, save my owner $millions, and keep 3 or 4 of my best scouts to run all of North America (Europe is still a little different because Finnish Jr. league games aren't televised and you need to have people watching those in person). Hire a video team to condense games into 1-hour blocks and have your best people watching hundreds of games/year. The last thing you need is to listen to your hopeless Manitoba scout who only got his job because he was a well-liked ex-player because you feel bad that you haven't listened to his crappy recommendations in a few years. Every single NHL team has too many chefs in the f***ing kitchen.

And you can either scout or you can't. It's like writing music or acting. You can either see and understand what's happening on the ice and see through it and make projections or you can't, and if you can't there isn't a goddamned system in the world that will make you good at your job. Judd Brackett can scout, and he'll generate results in any system for any team.

 

[Hit the post]

and if you can't there isn't a goddamned system in the world that will make you good at your job.

I heard that Jimbo tried hiring Maggie but couldn’t get Aquilini to authorize the signing (cost too many bananas):

 

[Peter10]

I heard that Jimbo tried hiring Maggie but couldn’t get Aquilini to authorize the signing (cost too many bananas):

I heard she asked for water which was the show stopper eventually.

 

[Bob Long]

Oh, hey, they’ve dropped the “I swear I’m arguing in good faith” act. What a surprise.

wut?

 

[Bob Long]

Judd Brackett was the Director Of Amateur Scouting...In that role, would he not be responsible for all scouts, in all regions.?

You're pushing 'his region' (which it was for 7 years before Benning promoted him)..and in that 7 years, how many players did Judd rake in ...?


One of the bigger proponents in drafting Jett Woo was Judd Brackett...Kind of blows your regional narrative out of the water.

oops

Jims made plenty of mistakes, everyone agrees on that. But some around here aren't happy unless everything Jim's done is crap. It makes their arguments too skewed.

 

[Bob Long]

Uh-huh. So why didn't he implement that system in Boston?

maybe he didn't have that freedom as AGM. As GM he has control. Not sure why thats controversial.

 

[Bob Long]

If true I’d easily move a piece like Rafferty. I think with Hughes and Rathbone he’s redundant. Gaudette not so much.

That would be a palatable thing. Ottawa just makes so much sense as a trade partner for this kind of move.... probably means its a no-go. But if we could package Sutter and Rafferty together that would be ideal imo.

 

[rypper]

maybe he didn't have that freedom as AGM. As GM he has control. Not sure why thats controversial.

He ran the scouting department for the Bruins, doesn't it seem odd to you the GM would give him that control but then not let him institute his own scouting system?