GDT: The Last All Encompassing World Juniors Thread

[Aerchon]

There is some noise that not taking Zegras could be rationalized because we needed D or complimentary players more.

I disagree strongly and want to point out that if Holland can't sign RNH the missed Zegras pick will be amplified that much more. It takes almost no foresight to see that Zegras would have been great insurance for that and I personally don't believe having a skilled forward would upset our balance even if RNH resigns with us.

Right now and every point up to now Zegras was the smart/best pick for the Oilers. True predraft, true at the draft, true in draft +1 year, true in draft +2 year. Who knows what the future may bring but right now it was very obviously a mistake to not draft him.

Is what it is. I'm not going to lose sleep about it but if the current trends continue it will be a significant mistake.

 

[Smartguy]

I could see him getting hung out to dry like a young Sam Gagner. But he could also flourish similar to what Barzal has done.

Barzal has legs like tree trunks too, don’t think he had as much power as he does now when he was drafted, a big reason for his success.

I could see a poor mans Patrick Kane. High end playmaking, Vision, and hands, subtract the sniping ability Kane has

 

[Samus44]

Moreau is a good comparison in someways actually. Kreider’s name gets brought up a lot as well.

Little better wheels than Moreau, but he has that same relentless work ethic. McDavid has shown to play well with big wingers who can forecheck. Holloway is such a powerful skater and physical on the team as well, McDavid should be beaming thinking about him as a winger if Holloway doesn’t slot in at 3C long term.

Even internationally McDavid looked really good with Scheifeler as a winger a few years back. He tends to play his best with big, physical forechecking wingers.

I love the effort Holloway plays, he does so much right away from the puck. One area I want him to focus on with McDavid and Drai is his stick handling and puck control, if Holloway had elite hands he would have been a top 5 pick. If he can really improve on that, then Holland hit a home run with this pick. I have no doubt Holloway will be a fan favourite like Moreau was.

Great post. This is exactly my point before about the type of player they're collecting. Holloway could be Kreider but he could also be just Moreau, either way you can win with that guy. On a team with elite talent we need two way guys like Holloway to make life hard for the other team when the scorers don't have the puck. He was really impressive last night and I suspect his hand injury maybe forced him to play a less dynamic game with the puck through the tournament. He didn't seem comfortable cutting and shooting and I think it may be because he couldn't handle the puck well enough to do so. He was however all over the other team in the hard areas of the ice and he clearly never cheats the team on any play using his smarts and speed to get where he's needed. I think he's more of a center in terms of his thought process but he's proven to me he can be effective in straight lines on the wing, a skill that becomes more essential when the games get tighter. More skill and he's a dandy.

 

[Icejoker]

They come out all the time like this. He was probably chirping "Broberg was a great pick" when he scored 3 assists.
Hindsight is a great thing when everything is over. Its like "why didnt I buy Apple stock?

Sorry if I disappoint You, but every time I have seen Broberg live he has been bad.

 

[Weitz]

Moreau is a good comparison in someways actually. Kreider’s name gets brought up a lot as well.

Little better wheels than Moreau, but he has that same relentless work ethic. McDavid has shown to play well with big wingers who can forecheck. Holloway is such a powerful skater and physical on the team as well, McDavid should be beaming thinking about him as a winger if Holloway doesn’t slot in at 3C long term.

Even internationally McDavid looked really good with Scheifeler as a winger a few years back. He tends to play his best with big, physical forechecking wingers.

I love the effort Holloway plays, he does so much right away from the puck. One area I want him to focus on with McDavid and Drai is his stick handling and puck control, if Holloway had elite hands he would have been a top 5 pick. If he can really improve on that, then Holland hit a home run with this pick. I have no doubt Holloway will be a fan favourite like Moreau was.

My only issue is to draft a guy like that at 16 can be a set back. I think you need your first rounders to be offensive. Time will tell and I still like the pick. Just wished he showed more offensively.

 

[Samus44]

I mean neither of them had 18 points in a single tournament so, not really an accurate comparison. Huge difference between 11 in 7 and 18 in 7

Year vs year is hard to judge, for example there's a huge difference in Covid Sweden vs normal Sweden. Heck Canada's team had a majority of players who had hardly played. I agree Zegras' better totals should be considered in comparison, and I would also call a guy like Mittlestat a bit of an outlier, but playing as the top dog on a top team has advantages that can inflate a players value. Some teams don't tend to be as top heavy and as such we've seen lesser players in primary roles outscore players more talented who had more support. That's why McDavid had 3 goals and 9 points, he was featured less, on another team with less depth he most certainly scores more. Also I hate to bring it up but Puljujarvi also had 17 points and lead the tournament in scoring, 6 more than Matthews and Tkachuk, 11 more than Marner. He even had 3 more than Aho and 4 more than Laine his linemates. Blah Blah Blah, the point is it's a short tournament with extenuating factors and doing well here is far from a predictor of NHL success. This was in particular a weird year, lets not read too much into it. Great for Zegras but that wasn't the NHL and guys like Mittlestat have proven that.

 

[bone]

My only issue is to draft a guy like that at 16 can be a set back. I think you need your first rounders to be offensive. Time will tell and I still like the pick. Just wished he showed more offensively.

Ethan Moreau was drafted 14th overall, so it's much more in the range than you'd think.

 

[Samus44]

Barzal has legs like tree trunks too, don’t think he had as much power as he does now when he was drafted, a big reason for his success.

I could see a poor mans Patrick Kane. High end playmaking, Vision, and hands, subtract the sniping ability Kane has

I think it's a good comp. If he's going to be great I think he's more likely to be so on the wing, at center I'm less bullish on Zegras.

 

[snipes]

Great post. This is exactly my point before about the type of player they're collecting. Holloway could be Kreider but he could also be just Moreau, either way you can win with that guy. On a team with elite talent we need two way guys like Holloway to make life hard for the other team when the scorers don't have the puck. He was really impressive last night and I suspect his hand injury maybe forced him to play a less dynamic game with the puck through the tournament. He didn't seem comfortable cutting and shooting and I think it may be because he couldn't handle the puck well enough to do so. He was however all over the other team in the hard areas of the ice and he clearly never cheats the team on any play using his smarts and speed to get where he's needed. I think he's more of a center in terms of his thought process but he's proven to me he can be effective in straight lines on the wing, a skill that becomes more essential when the games get tighter. More skill and he's a dandy.

He had a massive hit on Beniers as well last night.

Seems like every game he had at least one massive flat back type of hit.

I really like Holloways playing style, it’s obvious he’ll be an NHLer in some capacity.

 

[Aerchon]

Sorry if I disappoint You, but every time I have seen Broberg live he has been bad.

Ouside of 1 game where he was good in last year's WJC and 1 game in this year's WJC every other time I've watched him he has been bad to meh.

Disclaimer I don't watch SEL. But stat and media/comment watching he has been meh a lot more than good.

I still believe he will end up a top 4 defenseman but I just don't get the hype some people are lavishing him with. If greatness await Broberg I imagine it will be a long road to it. He still is a long ways from being an impact nhl player.

 

[joestevens29]

This is the thing people forget. The huge point totals against inferior teams. They aren’t going to be producing like that at the NHL level.

A major influence is also going to be the team that surrounds them. I’m not convinced Anaheim has the supporting cast at forward to maximize Zegras’ potential.

Not like others in this tournament or other tournaments didn't have similar opportunities to run up points. Denmark a couple years ago didn't even score in the tournament

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Year vs year is hard to judge, for example there's a huge difference in Covid Sweden vs normal Sweden. Heck Canada's team had a majority of players who had hardly played. I agree Zegras' better totals should be considered in comparison, and I would also call a guy like Mittlestat a bit of an outlier, but playing as the top dog on a top team has advantages that can inflate a players value. Some teams don't tend to be as top heavy and as such we've seen lesser players in primary roles outscore players more talented who had more support. That's why McDavid had 3 goals and 9 points, he was featured less, on another team with less depth he most certainly scores more. Also I hate to bring it up but Puljujarvi also had 17 points and lead the tournament in scoring, 6 more than Matthews and Tkachuk, 11 more than Marner. He even had 3 more than Aho and 4 more than Laine his linemates. Blah Blah Blah, the point is it's a short tournament with extenuating factors and doing well here is far from a predictor of NHL success. This was in particular a weird year, lets not read too much into it. Great for Zegras but that wasn't the NHL and guys like Mittlestat have proven that.

This was a crazy year with covid considerations. The Americans were full marks for their aggressive game which thoroughly buffaloed a complacent Team Canada. I think an understated competitive advantage within this tournament is the U.S. All Star team format which has the bulk of its players together in league and tournament play over multiple years. This was clear in the chemistry of their lines including the dominant top line, confidence and battle proven over several years together, and cohesion in facing down the Canadian team. Zegras had the confidence and belief in his pregame interview and fully delivered it with their convincing win. He's a sure fire NHLer and top six player, imo. Will still be a big step up to physical, mature and fast NHL competition although forwards more easily make this jump and he can prospectively apprentice initially at wing on a rebuilding team.

 

[joestevens29]

Ethan Moreau was drafted 14th overall, so it's much more in the range than you'd think.

In all fairness Moreau has talked a lot about this and is a poster boy for how to make the NHL.

As a 16 year old he was over PPG in the OHL. His draft year he was damn near 100 points in just under 60 games leading his team in scoring. The kid was an offensive weapon in Junior. He however learned early on that his offensive game wasn't at the NHL level, which in itself is a bid odd as he did put up 15-15 in his rookie season, which was pretty good for Chicago forwards. At some point though he learned that he was going to have to change his game to stay in the NHL. Become harder to play against, not be a liability, play more with that edge, get on the PK etc...

Problem is a lot of the first rounders or guys that were thought to be first rounders that do bust just don't adjust. If a player can truly realize that they aren't going to cut it with the skills they have then they will have a lot better of a shot at sticking around. You can't just you need to work on things like Schremp did, you truly have to believe it.

The sooner you realize these things the better.

Not saying this will be the case with Holloway, but it's something he could very well learn from if he struggles at the NHL level

 

[Beerfish]

There is some noise that not taking Zegras could be rationalized because we needed D or complimentary players more.

I disagree strongly and want to point out that if Holland can't sign RNH the missed Zegras pick will be amplified that much more. It takes almost no foresight to see that Zegras would have been great insurance for that and I personally don't believe having a skilled forward would upset our balance even if RNH resigns with us.

Right now and every point up to now Zegras was the smart/best pick for the Oilers. True predraft, true at the draft, true in draft +1 year, true in draft +2 year. Who knows what the future may bring but right now it was very obviously a mistake to not draft him.

Is what it is. I'm not going to lose sleep about it but if the current trends continue it will be a significant mistake.

The bolded part is pure nonsense if anyone is suggesting that. At the time of that pick and probably still now our forward prospects pool was bare as a can be. We badly needed a forward and went out of our way to take the Dman because they thought he was a better player.

 

[Oilers in NS]

Sorry if I disappoint You, but every time I have seen Broberg live he has been bad.

he was injured this world jr
He must have done something right during playoff round in August. They were close to keeping him on team for bubble
I think he will be a wait and see project. Go back to Sweden, play for the year and see what happens
Zegras did look pretty good I’m not gonna deny. I’m gonna put my faith in Holland

 

[North]

Not like others in this tournament or other tournaments didn't have similar opportunities to run up points. Denmark a couple years ago didn't even score in the tournament

That’s my point. Several players have run up point totals and it means nothing beyond what they did in the tournament.

It’s not a sign of how their professional careers are going to go.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I mean neither of them had 18 points in a single tournament so, not really an accurate comparison. Huge difference between 11 in 7 and 18 in 7

Regardless of how many points lol, I don't think it's fair to judge a player fully on this tournament. Askarov was horrible in it but he could end up being a #1 goalie in 2-3 years

 

[McTonyBrar]

He clearly produced, however the real test will be when he turns pro. That's when we'll see what he's made of. Personally I think that Boldy plays a pro style of game that should translate pretty seamlessly.

Kailer Yamamoto had 4 points in this tournament but he played a pro style game. Now, he's a 2nd line winger in the NHL

 

[McTonyBrar]

Zebras are living on a good hockey IQ, I am not sure he could drive a line by himself in NHL but he should have been a perfect line mate to McDavid but instead they take over a guy with none hockey IQ who McDavid dont want to play with.

No Hockey IQ. Now we know you were just here to be silly

 

[McTonyBrar]

Oilers history of bad drafting continues. What else is new?

Yamamoto, Nurse, Jones, Bear, Draisaitl, Bouchard, Marino. Horrible Indeed

 

[McTonyBrar]

Curious how you know he will be a top 4 D? Regardless of the debate you draft BPA in the top 10, because regardless of Brobergs development, it likely could be 4 years post draft that he even starts to play in the NHL, our needs will be completely different.

Not going to get into the whole debate, as I’ve said to people that keep bringing it up, it’s likely a conversation for 4 years from now when people debate a redraft. But regardless, Zegras was the BPA at the time, he is currently light years ahead of Broberg in his development, tough to compare though because of position, and I would be completely shocked if this isn’t a pick that fans bring up for the next decade as a miss.

The whole “we need defensive help” argument wreaks of passing on a Barzal or Connor for Reinhart situation again. No, not that I compare Broberg and Reinhart, just time and and time again teams have proven its best just to go BPA in the first round, forget position. see Arizona in recent memory taking Hayton over Quinn Hughes, you don’t think just now three years post draft when they are likely headed into a full blown tear down, they would love a Quinn Hughes? Again that’s a drafting for current problems mistake.

Yzerman drafted Seider and he wasn't BPA...

 

[McTonyBrar]

I’m not sure why we have to keep rehashing the Zegras stuff. Broberg was a good pick. Zegras would have been too. Both are trending in the right direction.

The only issue is Zegras was able to show what he could do against his peers while in good health and Broberg couldn’t because he was hobbled by injury.

Anybody who wants to use this tournament as a mark against Broberg is being disingenuous.

Shhh let them do it. They'll be the ones looking stupid in the future

 

[McTonyBrar]

Not looking forward to the day he becomes a full time NHLer. We are probably going to hate him as much as we hated Kesler.

He's a skinny kid with great skill. I never saw him try to pull any Kesler type antics. Plus, in terms of skill, I'll take McDavid and Draisaitl over him

 

[Oilhawks]

The bolded part is pure nonsense if anyone is suggesting that. At the time of that pick and probably still now our forward prospects pool was bare as a can be. We badly needed a forward and went out of our way to take the Dman because they thought he was a better player.

Yeah, tell me how many championships this top 4d Corp will sniff:

Nurse - Bear
Jones - Bouchard

They needed a Klefbom replacement. You don’t trade for those without losing value.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Moreau is a good comparison in someways actually. Kreider’s name gets brought up a lot as well.

Little better wheels than Moreau, but he has that same relentless work ethic. McDavid has shown to play well with big wingers who can forecheck. Holloway is such a powerful skater and physical on the team as well, McDavid should be beaming thinking about him as a winger if Holloway doesn’t slot in at 3C long term.

Even internationally McDavid looked really good with Scheifeler as a winger a few years back. He tends to play his best with big, physical forechecking wingers.

I love the effort Holloway plays, he does so much right away from the puck. One area I want him to focus on with McDavid and Drai is his stick handling and puck control, if Holloway had elite hands he would have been a top 5 pick. If he can really improve on that, then Holland hit a home run with this pick. I have no doubt Holloway will be a fan favourite like Moreau was.

Yep this is my thinking too. If the Oil can re-sign RNH, and Holloway and Puljujarvi develop, I really like the look and balance of the top 6 going forward

Holloway-McDavid-Puljujarvi
RNH-Draisaitl-Yamamoto