ShaneFalco
Registered User
Burke created a team and totally put the wrong players in leadership roles. He had to go, so did Phaneuf
I see where you’re coming from. But you’re missing an important factor that Kessel had a limited no trade clause which severely hampered the teams that were open/willing to trade for Kessel.Look, i get the idea that we needed to move on from Kessel, There was a perceived need for a culture change. a new identity as a team so we had to move on from Kessel. Thats Fine.
What I hate is the value that was obtained from trading him. Look at what Kessel comparables are since the trade:
Do you think any of these players could be had for 6.8M/yr by trading a 1st and an A prospect. Its completely ridiculous that most people would be happy with that return.[TBODY] [/TBODY]
14 Tavares 274 122 140 262 15 Mackinnon 265 98 160 258 16 Kessel 282 97 161 258 17 Seguin 273 110 145 255 18 Burns 284 72 181 253
Also for some reason people keep bringing up that trading Kessel netted Anderson which doesnt make sense at all. That's like saying we trade Marner for a 2nd and then we trade that 2nd to get McDavid. Those are 2 different trades, even though we may have improved in the end, we could have had much much more. Another 1st, a good young roster player..
Same is true for the Kessel trade, we should have been able to get much more let alone retain and give up a 2nd.
Quite honestly shows just how much you pay attention.
During his tenure in Toronto, Phil was paired with Bozak and one of Lupul or JvR. Which of those 3 were star power players that turned this lazy Kessel into a 35+ goal - 80+ point guy?
During his first season in Pittsburgh, Kessel played with Bonino and Hagelin. That's where the 3rd line dominated the playoffs and was known as the HBK line. Any idea what team Bonino is even playing for today? I haven't a clue.
I hated that Pittsburgh's 2016 1st round pick was conditional on them making the playoffs. I only bring that up because a week earlier at the draft when San Jose traded for Martin Jones they gave up a 1st round pick to Boston without any conditions and Jones never played a game for the Bruins, who only traded for him since the Kings didn't want to trade Jones to the Sharks.I dont like how we had to retain 1.2 mil, besides that great trade
Everything I posted was objective and taken directly from either broadcasts or hockey insiders.
Best part about your post is that your telling me I know very little... then you shoot off all the casual hockey fan knowledge, the hbk line, 3rd line... and stats.
..... so your saying because Kessel scored 80 points he can’t have bouts of ineffective play? Your also saying you can’t be lazy if you score points? That means you cannot be labeled lazy if you don’t try on defense?
He had a couple great postseasons so he’s automatically not a lazy player for the rest of his career?
Google them, I didn’t make any of them up.
- He has a poor relationship with Sullivan
- Gino gets frustrated with Kessels play
- This most recent postseason Kessel did not play well
Sounds like you’re the one who has paid no attention and not me. Or I guess you are more correct then his own linemates and coach?
He’s an incredible offensive player, with a poor attitude (the guy literally has been not well liked by every coach he’s ever had) and has bouts of lazy play. Go ahead and argue it all you want.
A #1 goalie and kapanen is a great return all things considered.
Boring!No.
Because this just turns into a hindsight discussion more than anything.
We knew that Kessel was good and a good playoff performer at the time of the trade.
We didn't know we were going to get Andersen at all.
I heard a report that the Flames wanted Andersen however the Ducks didn't want to trade him in the same division. I don't remember what the Flames were offering but I think it was more than what the Leafs ended up giving them to the Ducks.Let me start with the #1 goalie first. The Leafs traded pick 30 and a second rounder the next year for Andersen.
If they didn’t have the Penguins’ first round pick, they would have offered pick 31 and that same second rounder.
The deal would have been made regardless.
Highlighting the Andersen move is a weak argument.
Let me start with the #1 goalie first. The Leafs traded pick 30 and a second rounder the next year for Andersen.
If they didn’t have the Penguins’ first round pick, they would have offered pick 31 and that same second rounder.
The deal would have been made regardless.
Highlighting the Andersen move is a weak argument.
Are you in the dressing room before, during and after games? Sounds like you’ve got a lot of inside knowledge about the inner goings of the Leafs, Bruins and Penguins.
What is Geno like in more personal situations?
How about Sid?
Those insiders and experts whose opinions you regurgitate, are they Nik Kypreos and Jeff O’neill?
Maybe it was Glenn Healy.
We all know just how reliable these guys are. Aren’t the Leafs in the midst of trading Marner right now as per Kypper?
The truth is that Kessel’s laziness started off as a thing from Ron Wilson who complained that he told the coach he skated a few times during the summer. As if Kessel has ever needed to work on his skating.
That was then hammered home by the Sun and Star with articles from those Pulitzer winners Cox, Feschuck and Simmons.
The guys who did the same thing to such scrubs as Sundin, Murphy, Kaberle, Kadri, etc.
Have we forgotten Wilson and Eakens and their takes on Nazem Kadri. How he was a lazy fat slob.
Eat a bowl of carrots instead of a bag of chips was the quote if I’m not mistaken. He was a malcontent in Toronto. Woops, yet another blunder by our media. The guy’s now a 2 time 30 goal scorer and a good shut down player simultaneously.
Anyone remember all the personal baggage Kessel had according to Simmons. How all he wanted to do in the off season was go fishing in Florida? He couldn’t wait to leave this city. What a terrible example he set for all the young guys like the Nylanders of the world.
And yet, somehow after posting 3 straight point per game (or near enough) seasons, signed an 8 year extension without a threat of a hold out. What’s the going rate for 30 goal, 80 point players? He also showed just how much he hated being here by celebrating his day with the cup in the city that got rid of him, home to his former team, in another country that’s not his. Yup, true poisonous personality there. I mean, don’t all Americans bring the cup to Sick Kids when they win? He could have brought it home to Wisconsin just like everyone else does, but chose not to.
Why? To engratiate himself with his former city, one where he visits all of 2 times a year now?
One thing others might forget is among the approved teams on Kessel's trade list is that only Pittsburgh was willing to talk about trading for him. So I don't think that helped the Leafs negotiating in terms of retaining salary and everything else.Things had gone pretty sour when we traded him, although I still felt like we should have got a little more for him.
Everything I posted was objective and taken directly from either broadcasts or hockey insiders.
Best part about your post is that your telling me I know very little... then you shoot off all the casual hockey fan knowledge, the hbk line, 3rd line... and stats.
..... so your saying because Kessel scored 80 points he can’t have bouts of ineffective play? Your also saying you can’t be lazy if you score points? That means you cannot be labeled lazy if you don’t try on defense?
He had a couple great postseasons so he’s automatically not a lazy player for the rest of his career?
Google them, I didn’t make any of them up.
- He has a poor relationship with Sullivan
- Gino gets frustrated with Kessels play
- This most recent postseason Kessel did not play well
Sounds like you’re the one who has paid no attention and not me. Or I guess you are more correct then his own linemates and coach?
He’s an incredible offensive player, with a poor attitude (the guy literally has been not well liked by every coach he’s ever had) and has bouts of lazy play. Go ahead and argue it all you want.
A #1 goalie and kapanen is a great return all things considered.
It’s also insane the lack of respect that kessel still gets from some folks.
The guy is literally a beats in the playoffs and probably should have won the playoff mvp during that first Pens cup run once he joined (though understandable that they opted to give it to Crosby by a hair)
Boring!
No one lost that trade.If all of these things that happened after the trade count (things like picks being traded for Andersen and stuff like that), then surely Kessel being an integral piece in winning two cups needs to be considered as well. Heck, Kessel was the Con Smyth winner on that first cup (it was given to Crosby because nhl poster child didn’t have one yet... but Kessel had a better post season).
I’m trying to imagine the leafs getting their final major piece on an already great team, winning two cups with that piece playing a major role, while having the other team retain over a million of the salary... yet still hear leafs claim we LOST the trade because of a losing what turned into a depth forward player, and picks turning into a decent goalie.
We lost that trade. In horrendous fashion.
But at the same time, it needed to be done. We were desperate to unload him, and Pittsburg sniffed out that desperation and used it to their advantage.
I would say that the team that won two cups in a row as a direct result of the trade... well, they won the trade.No one lost that trade.
Not every trade needs to have a winner and a loserI would say that the team that won two cups in a row as a direct result of the trade... well, they won the trade.
Sure, if Kessel was just a passenger those 2 playoff runs, then i’d agree. But he was freaking amazing. Just look at his numbers. Add that the leafs were paying part of his salary that whole time is what turns it from a mere “lost” trade, to embarrassing.
At least he now has two of something under his belt..I miss Phil's fat cookie eating face but I'm glad he has two cups under his belt.
That's really the problem. You can't definitively say Pittsburgh won those cups "as a direct result of the trade". It's certainly possible that they would not have won without him, but it's also possible that they would have won without him. It can't be proven either way. In exactly the same way, if the Leafs win the Cup a couple of times in the next three years, you can't say for sure whether it was because of the trade, or in spite of it.I would say that the team that won two cups in a row as a direct result of the trade... well, they won the trade.
Sure, if Kessel was just a passenger those 2 playoff runs, then i’d agree. But he was freaking amazing. Just look at his numbers. Add that the leafs were paying part of his salary that whole time is what turns it from a mere “lost” trade, to embarrassing.