The Kessel Trade (redux)

[jaric1862]

I dont like how we had to retain 1.2 mil, besides that great trade

 

[Keep Sorokin Me Babe]

People can be underwhelmed, but I can't buy the idea that we totally got hosed.

If we totally got hosed and traded Kessel for way less than he's worth, then why didn't another team step in and offer more? Every GM had the opportunity to "hose" the Leafs for an elite scorer, and decided not to. Couldn't have been that much of a fleecing then.

Kessel had a limited NTC. He couldn't have been traded to just any team

 

[Dayjobdave]

We have our number one goalie and Kapanen, and bottoming our got us Auston. Pretty spectacular return. I can still wear my Kessel winter classic sweater proudly after a haul like that

 

[LeafSteel]

Tbh I found the return underwhelming at one point but glad I was wrong.[/QUOTE]

This.

Felt the same at the time.

Honestly would have liked to see what Babcock could do with Kessel for one season before deciding, but it's obvious now that their personalities would not have meshed and it would not have been a good dynamic.

All in all, it was a good trade for both teams, and no one got hosed.

 

[indigobuffalo]

I miss Phil's fat cookie eating face but I'm glad he has two cups under his belt. We don't have to hear smug Boston fans cheer thank you Kessel and we have a top team because of him. We traded Kessel as a start to a full rebuild and tank. The assets we got back were fine but with Kessel on the club along with Dion, we most likely never get to see Auston Matthews.

For years we've been haunted by poor luck and poor management decisions. Finally we've lucked into something good. I also absolutely love the fact that we walked into the Liljegren pick when the season prior I was legitimately willing to tank another year to scoop that kid.

We've hit on so many late picks too all because we have developed a top end development system with the Marlies with an elite set of coaches and optimal sports science team and conditioning team that is allowning even the average prospects to flourish.

Back on topic though. I miss Kessel. I wish he could be a part of this team when we hoist a cup since he literally carried this franchise on his back for 7 seasons and got nothing but **** tossed at him by the media. I hate the Penguins as much as anyone can but the only reason I was smiling when they won the cup was because of Kessel.

I agree. Tim is going to be a force. I expect him to be right there with Rielly.

I really struggle to believe that 16 other GMs felt they were making better selections. Just because of him missing most of the draft year with mono...

I prefer to believe that Rogers (who own the Leafs AND have the Canadian broadcast rights, coincidence?) just greased some palms or something.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

You can be happy with the outcome but the trade was still underwhelming. We also should be judging the trade on its merits, what we did with the assets in the future aren’t really relevant. If you trade a third round pick that becomes a great player, that doesn’t suddenly make the third round pick more valuable in the past.

That being said the trade was the right move.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think at the time of the Kessel trade, if you were to ask us if we would take Kessel or a top 12 starting goalie and a 20G/30A type winger who has a strong defensive game, I believe a lot would be happy with the latter.

 

[hotpaws]

it was a poor return but it had to be done

we could have just as easily got Andy with the 1st pick in the 2nd as we did we the last pick of the 1st rd but it seems to make people feel better about the PK trade so whatever

where we really lucked out was Pitt forcing Shanny/Dubas to take Kap instead of Pouliot who we wanted

 

[TheProspector]

Great analysis. Fabulous trade for both teams. It effectively ended up being Kessel for Andy+Kapanen, but we had to wait until this season for Kapanen to emerge as a comparable player. Classic time value of money (or, in this case, NHL assets). I also disliked the trade at the time.

 

[unitedstars87]

I would have traded for Freddy alone. Imagine he wasn’t a leaf?

 

[hamzarocks]

it was a poor return but it had to be done

we could have just as easily got Andy with the 1st pick in the 2nd as we did we the last pick of the 1st rd but it seems to make people feel better about the PK trade so whatever

where we really lucked out was Pitt forcing Shanny/Dubas to take Kap instead of Pouliot who we wanted

I remember leafs really wanting pouliot at first but when they were denied than dubas/hunter told Rutherford that the deal is broken without kapanen not being included. Pretty sure they both liked what they saw in kap and were only trading kessel if he was coming back once pouliot had been taken out by the pens. Great scouting from the two and our developing team here really helped out kapanen. Still agree though the deal was weak at the time but has been looking progressivley better as time moves on. The best tine to have traded kessel would have been at the 2014 draft not once the whole 2015 season and all the fiascos that came with it occurred.

 

[Daisy Jane]

there was nothing wrong w/the trade when it happened.

a lot of people worked themselves up that we were going to get the moon for Kessel even thought several people pointed out when it came to trades like that it wasn't going to happen.

the only thing that could have made that trade better was getting Muarry - but he's kinda glassy so. there you go.

 

[LeafFever]

It'a a rare "Win-Win" trade IMO.

 

[ChickenMcNugget]

Okay i guess im in the minority here, but the trade could've been much better for Toronto.

Kessel at the time and still is an 80 pt player. these players are extremely valuable and trading him for a first and an A prospect is not close to being good enough. Imagine asking for Gaudreau or Scheifele for a late first and sandin and the reaction on the main board is not going to be favorable. Not to mention we also threw in a 2nd AND retained salary for us to make it happen.

I get that Kessel didnt fit in and his contract had limitations, but we easily should've been able to get more prospects and more 1st round picks for him at the time. Management failed on this big time.

 

[Stephen]

For those who were disappointed in the return, I'm quite curious at what kind of package you would have imagined Toronto getting in return.

Aside from the cap retention, which had to be done to facilitate the trade, they managed to 1) set the table for the most well executed tank of the cap era 2) clear cap futures to make signing our future franchise players possible 3) acquired 2 assets, one of which brought us a franchise goalie we haven't had since 2004, and another young player who could become a core member.

Just thinking about Freddy Andersen, I'm just flashing back to the combined assets like Rask, Frattin, Scrivens, (the Demott pick which we later reacquired), the package of picks we sent to San Jose they used to package to get Logan Couture just to kick the can at Raycroft, Toskala and Bernier.

 

[Stephen]

Okay i guess im in the minority here, but the trade could've been much better for Toronto.

Kessel at the time and still is an 80 pt player. these players are extremely valuable and trading him for a first and an A prospect is not close to being good enough. Imagine asking for Gaudreau or Scheifele for a late first and sandin and the reaction on the main board is not going to be favorable. Not to mention we also threw in a 2nd AND retained salary for us to make it happen.

I get that Kessel didnt fit in and his contract had limitations, but we easily should've been able to get more prospects and more 1st round picks for him at the time. Management failed on this big time.

But what would your imagined return have been?

 

[Stephen]

One thing that's interesting about Kasperi Kapanen, is that at 22 years of age, he is on track to score 31 goals and 55 points for us over 82 games. At the same age, Kessel scored 30 goals and 55 points in 70 games.

 

[DarkKnight]

You can be happy with the outcome but the trade was still underwhelming. We also should be judging the trade on its merits, what we did with the assets in the future aren’t really relevant. If you trade a third round pick that becomes a great player, that doesn’t suddenly make the third round pick more valuable in the past.

That being said the trade was the right move.

Initially, it wasn't a good return no question. However, you do have to reacess when the dust settles. For example Dougie Hamilton doesn't look quite like he did in that Kessel trade's aftermath. We ended up with two exceptional pieces for Kessel, that's today's reality.

 

[Mr Hockey]

99.9 % of this fan base considered it a horrible trade until Kappy lit it up this season

 

[Suntouchable13]

Okay i guess im in the minority here, but the trade could've been much better for Toronto.

Kessel at the time and still is an 80 pt player. these players are extremely valuable and trading him for a first and an A prospect is not close to being good enough. Imagine asking for Gaudreau or Scheifele for a late first and sandin and the reaction on the main board is not going to be favorable. Not to mention we also threw in a 2nd AND retained salary for us to make it happen.

I get that Kessel didnt fit in and his contract had limitations, but we easily should've been able to get more prospects and more 1st round picks for him at the time. Management failed on this big time.

Leafs had no leverage. He was only willing to go to a couple of teams. He was viewed as a malcontent with a cap hit of 8m. Leafs needed to get rid of him to kickstart the rebuild. The return was secondary. If they managed a better one, then that would have been a bonus. Leafs did fine with what they had at the time.

 

[bonjovi0308]

I dont like how Hunter blew up the 3rd round pick on Greenway. I'm all for trading established players for young prospects and picks, but you need to make good selections with the picks. While there is no guaranteed, at least SDA and Hollowell are interesting picks. Greenway has been downhill since ever picked...

 

[GoldenGOOSE]

I guess I can post on this thread about Liljegren? Since he has already been mentioned? Anyways, I was worried that the Babcock approach on reeling in Rielly initially and getting him to concentrate on defence would eliminate his offensive confidence.

I in fact, think it did. But now that the leash has been off, he is obviously exceeding expectations originally anticipated.

I am hoping that Liljegren, also, once unleashed will explode to the upside, like Morgan. Might take several years though. The NHL is not an easy place to suddenly gain offensive confidence for a dman.

 

[pcruz]

For those who were disappointed in the return, I'm quite curious at what kind of package you would have imagined Toronto getting in return.

Aside from the cap retention, which had to be done to facilitate the trade, they managed to 1) set the table for the most well executed tank of the cap era 2) clear cap futures to make signing our future franchise players possible 3) acquired 2 assets, one of which brought us a franchise goalie we haven't had since 2004, and another young player who could become a core member.

Just thinking about Freddy Andersen, I'm just flashing back to the combined assets like Rask, Frattin, Scrivens, (the Demott pick which we later reacquired), the package of picks we sent to San Jose they used to package to get Logan Couture just to kick the can at Raycroft, Toskala and Bernier.

This is the thing about these hindsight reviews.
What if the Leafs had traded Kessel away and wound up drafting 30th overall? Or 31st, whatever the situation was.
Add to that the Leafs had an 80% chance of not getting Matthews.

We were lucky that Matthews came here, we were lucky that not only was Andersen dispensable in Anaheim, but that he's actually a very good goalie. We just hadn't seen a whole lot of the guy playing second fiddle to another good goalie from LA. Where have we heard that song and dance before? What was the outcome there?
When comparing Andersen and Bernier, at the time of acquisition, who had the better pedigree?

As it turns out, the Penguins received one of the best offensive players in the league, a player who was ripped off of a Conn Smythe in one cup win and then was a major contributor in a second cup win.
As it turns out, the Penguins received a player who has had no issues with the media and/or his teammates.
Come to think of it, there were no credible stories of him having had any issues with teammates in Toronto either, quite the contrary. Maybe we could ask Feschuck or Simmons how they view back to back stanley cup winning players?

Anyone remember those highly credible stories from the respected Toronto media that were certain Kessel was in the midst of a freefall and that his body had already begun to give out on him. Remember the hot dog story that basically stated how Kessel's career was all but finished due to his pathetic last season in Toronto. It was the end times for Phil.

Since being traded away to the Penguins, this is how Kessel has performed in the regular season.

14 Tavares	274	122	140	262
15 Mackinnon	265	98	160	258
16 Kessel	282	97	161	258
17 Seguin	273	110	145	255
18 Burns	284	72	181	253

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

And the playoffs.

1	Crosby	60	23	44	67
2	Malkin	57	20	34	54
3	Kessel	61	19	35	54
4	Ovechkin	49	25	22	47
5	Backstrom	45	13	34	47
6	Couture	40	16	29	45
7	Kuznetsov	49	18	26	44

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Remember, the Leafs are paying $1.2M per season for this guy to be the 16th best offensive player in the league, except it's for someone else.


Yes, we're fortunate to have Matthews, Tavares, Andersen and Kapanen on the team.
However, we have 2 of those out of sheer luck and circumstance.
Kapanen has shown us that he's a good player, but at only .68 ppg is having a year that Kessel has not had since his 2nd season post draft.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I dont like how Hunter blew up the 3rd round pick on Greenway. I'm all for trading established players for young prospects and picks, but you need to make good selections with the picks. While there is no guaranteed, at least SDA and Hollowell are interesting picks. Greenway has been downhill since ever picked...

I thought Greenway was a great pick even if he decides to call it quits tomorrow, just my thoughts

 

[Skin Tape Session]

I would of taken back Clarkson to dump Phil and Dion. The fact we got Kap and Andy out of it is just franchise altering