The Great John Hayden Debate (& other ex-Hawks): Volume 6

[ChiHawk21]

kahun now has 16 points in 27 games for the pens pretty good after a slower start. good for him. shoutout to those who burried me on here for saying Nylander (10pts in 26) would be a kahun production replacement.

 

[ChiHawks10]

kahun now has 16 points in 27 games for the pens pretty good after a slower start. good for him. shoutout to those who burried me on here for saying Nylander (10pts in 26) would be a kahun production replacement.

While the production doesn't match, and I can admit that(I don't even think I was one of those who criticized you for that thinking) can you admit that Nylander should probably have more points, if only Toews or Saad could actually bury a puck?

 

[ChiHawk21]

While the production doesn't match, and I can admit that(I don't even think I was one of those who criticized you for that thinking) can you admit that Nylander should probably have more points, if only Toews or Saad could actually bury a puck?

no you disagreed but didnt come at me for it. and yes he should have a few more points and those points would put him on par with what kahun did last year.

hes on a 31 point pace right now. kahun got 37 last year.

also....nylander is young and has the skills so id much rather have nylander then kahun.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Danault with a buzzer beater. Up to 21 points.

 

[ChiHawks10]

no you disagreed but didnt come at me for it. and yes he should have a few more points and those points would put him on par with what kahun did last year.

hes on a 31 point pace right now. kahun got 37 last year.

also....nylander is young and has the skills so id much rather have nylander then kahun.

Yeah, Nylander should definitely have 16-20 points right now. Toews with that whopper of a 5.7 SH%.

Saad's has at least climbed back to his career average. Toews on the other hand...

 

[Larmer83]

It's comforting to know that Toews and Saad combined is the reason why Nylander whiffs on one timers on the PP. Or they're responsible for Nylander having only 1 assist and a - 7 in his last 8 games.

Toews is major suckage but it doesn't absolve Nylander from virtually no production.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

So what does everyone think will happen with Byfuglien? Think he done?

Just have a hard time seeing him walk away from all those millions

 

[Drumman44]

So what does everyone think will happen with Byfuglien? Think he done?

Just have a hard time seeing him walk away from all those millions

He has $14 million in real salary remaining. I wonder if both sides will agree to mutual contract termination and he’ll sign a front loaded 3 year, $18 million dollar contract somewhere else. RHD don’t grow on trees

The Hawks FO will say “Surely bringing back a familiar face will work THIS time!”

 

[ChiHawks10]

It's comforting to know that Toews and Saad combined is the reason why Nylander whiffs on one timers on the PP. Or they're responsible for Nylander having only 1 assist and a - 7 in his last 8 games.

Toews is major suckage but it doesn't absolve Nylander from virtually no production.

No, that doesn't absolve Nylander for his lack of production, entirely, but it's a damn good reason why he's not sitting on 18-20 points right now.

That said, Nylander would have 6-8 more assists, easily, if Toews(even just Toews) could actually finish. Toews shooting at 5.7% for the year is absolutely abysmal, and there are no excuses for it. He's 3rd on this team in shots. His shooting percentage is only higher than Keith, de Haan, Maatta, and Zach f***ing Smith. That's three D and a scrub 4th liner... in case you weren't aware. He's shooting 8 percentage points lower than his career average.

Nylander is a rookie, in his first full season, and has the same amount of goals as Toews, and 4 less assists, with one less game played.

So I'm sorry if I don't completely blame Nylander for his production.

 

[BK]

No, that doesn't absolve Nylander for his lack of production, entirely, but it's a damn good reason why he's not sitting on 18-20 points right now.

That said, Nylander would have 6-8 more assists, easily, if Toews(even just Toews) could actually finish. Toews shooting at 5.7% for the year is absolutely abysmal, and there are no excuses for it. He's 3rd on this team in shots. His shooting percentage is only higher than Keith, de Haan, Maatta, and Zach ****ing Smith. He's shooting 8 percentage points lower than his career average.

Nylander is a rookie, in his first full season, and has the same amount of goals as Toews, and 4 less assists, with one less game played.

So I'm sorry if I don't completely blame Nylander for his production.

This.

 

[Larmer83]

No, that doesn't absolve Nylander for his lack of production, entirely, but it's a damn good reason why he's not sitting on 18-20 points right now.

That said, Nylander would have 6-8 more assists, easily, if Toews(even just Toews) could actually finish. Toews shooting at 5.7% for the year is absolutely abysmal, and there are no excuses for it. He's 3rd on this team in shots. His shooting percentage is only higher than Keith, de Haan, Maatta, and Zach ****ing Smith. That's three D and a scrub 4th liner... in case you weren't aware. He's shooting 8 percentage points lower than his career average.

Nylander is a rookie, in his first full season, and has the same amount of goals as Toews, and 4 less assists, with one less game played.

So I'm sorry if I don't completely blame Nylander for his production.

No doubt there is some truth to your take on the situation. However, in his limited time as a pro, Nylander has an uncanny ability to look great and then disappear for stretches. Sabre fans new this to be the case and I was personally warned what to expect.

In fairness, I was lucky enough to have the Avs games blacked out in Denver. So I may have missed the primary assists from Nylander that Toews did not convert (Or secondary for that matter). By all means please point out the 6-8 set-ups from Nylander.

I hope he develops some consistency and becomes successful. But he has yet to earn the benefit of my doubt.

 

[ChiHawks10]

No doubt there is some truth to your take on the situation. However, in his limited time as a pro, Nylander has an uncanny ability to look great and then disappear for stretches. Sabre fans new this to be the case and I was personally warned what to expect.

In fairness, I was lucky enough to have the Avs games blacked out in Denver. So I may have missed the primary assists from Nylander that Toews did not convert (Or secondary for that matter). By all means please point out the 6-8 set-ups from Nylander.

I hope he develops some consistency and becomes successful. But he has yet to earn the benefit of my doubt.

I'm not gonna go back through the last 10 games to point them out to you... go back through our GDTs and you'll see plenty of comments about it.

 

[ChiHawk21]

i mean maybe a point here and there but doubling his points because toews shooting percentage is bad isnt realistic..

 

[ChiHawks10]

i mean maybe a point here and there but doubling his points because toews shooting percentage is bad isnt realistic..

I'm simply using the math. Toews career shooting percentage of 14% says he should have roughly 10 goals right now. He has 70 shots, 14% of 70, = 9.8. That says he should have 6 goals more than what he has now. If you give Nylander a point on half of those 6, that's an additional 3 points. I'd argue that he's setup Saad for just as many, and he has also setup DeBrincat with a couple on the PP. It's more than a point here and there, and it's not just Toews that has completely blown numerous chances that Nylander put on their sticks.

I could make a solid argument that he should have roughly 9 more points than he currently has, and it wouldn't be an insane argument to make. Not even close. Considering Cat's SH% is also abysmal.

I never said it was solely based upon Toews, but two of his most common linemates have flubbed at least a handful of chances setup by him, and I know for a fact that Cat has flubbed some on the PP.

It's not out of the realm of possibility to think that he could have another 7-10 points. It's actually pretty damn easy to argue that he could be sitting somewhere between 16-20 points right now.

 

[ChiHawk21]

I'm simply using the math. Toews career shooting percentage of 14% says he should have roughly 10 goals right now. He has 70 shots, 14% of 70, = 9.8. That says he should have 6 goals more than what he has now. If you give Nylander a point on half of those 6, that's an additional 3 points. I'd argue that he's setup Saad for just as many, and he has also setup DeBrincat with a couple on the PP. It's more than a point here and there, and it's not just Toews that has completely blown numerous chances that Nylander put on their sticks.

I could make a solid argument that he should have roughly 9 more points than he currently has, and it wouldn't be an insane argument to make, either. Considering Cat's SH% is also abysmal.

so in imagination land he should have assists on half of toews fake goals and assists on half of saads fake goals? and the PP assists on debrincat goals that arnt real. cmon. hes not doubling up his stats because toews shooting percentage. i understand your trying to reach to get to your number but be realistic.

 

[ChiHawks10]

so in imagination land he should have assists on half of toews fake goals and assists on half of saads fake goals? and the PP assists on debrincat goals that arnt real. cmon. hes not doubling up his stats because toews shooting percentage. i understand your trying to reach to get to your number but be realistic.

My numbers are actually pretty damn realistic...

Yeah, it's obviously all speculation/"imagination-land" if you want. The fact remains, Nylander shouldn't be sitting on 10 points, if his linemates could convert. Obviously none of this is real, but simply going by the numbers he should have at least 16 points right now. You don't think he's setup Toews, Saad, and Cat for 2 golden opportunities, each? Chances that they should have buried? If you don't, then you obviously haven't been watching the games. Two chances per those three is plenty realistic. And I'd say that just about everyone on here would agree with that, even people who have been critical of Nylander.

 

[ChiHawk21]

My numbers are actually pretty damn realistic...

Yeah, it's obviously all speculation/"imagination-land" if you want. The fact remains, Nylander shouldn't be sitting on 10 points, if his linemates could convert. Obviously none of this is real, but simply going by the numbers he should have at least 16 points right now. You don't think he's setup Toews, Saad, and Cat for 2 golden opportunities, each? If you don't, then you obviously haven't been watching the games.

here we go again...

the fact is that he is sitting at 10 points. maybe he has some he shouldnt have and maybe he doesnt that he should.

when people are bashing toews they arnt adding in fake points.

 

[ChiHawks10]

here we go again...

the fact is that he is sitting at 10 points. maybe he has some he shouldnt have and maybe he doesnt that he should.

There's no "here we go again". There's a reason people say it to you all the time. You have a tendency to make it painfully obvious when you haven't watched games. If you don't believe that Nylander should have 6 more points than he does now, because of ineptitude on the parts of his linemates, then you've obviously missed a bunch of games.

 

[ChiHawk21]

There's no "here we go again". There's a reason people say it to you all the time. You have a tendency to make it painfully obvious when you haven't watched games.

lol you say that to everyone on repeat when someone disagrees.

 

[ChiHawks10]

lol you say that to everyone on repeat when someone disagrees.

Actually, I don't say that to very many people at all. Ever. Maybe you're mistaking me for someone else.

I say people don't know what they're watching, but I rarely say people just aren't watching... and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who agrees with you about that.

Again. If you don't believe that Nylander should have 6 more points than he does now, because of ineptitude on the parts of his linemates, then you've obviously missed a bunch of games.

 

[ChiHawk21]

Actually, I don't say that to very many people at all. Ever. Maybe you're mistaking me for someone else.

I say people don't know what they're watching, but I rarely say people just aren't watching... and you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who agrees with you about that.

Again. If you don't believe that Nylander should have 6 more points than he does now, because of ineptitude on the parts of his linemates, then you've obviously missed a bunch of games.

i mean you said he should have 20 points in 26 games when he has half of that and blamed it on toews. i said thats not realistic maybe a few here and there. i think people may agree.

 

[ChiHawks10]

i mean you said he should have 20 points in 26 games when he has half of that and blamed it on toews. i said thats not realistic maybe a few here and there. i think people may agree.

I actually said 16-20 points in my original post. And I don't think that's unrealistic. And your reading comprehension really does suck. I blamed it on multiple players, but pointed out that Toews is the biggest contributing factor...

Do you just refuse to read? Or can you just not comprehend multiple things at one time? Can your brain not handle more than single thing at once? It sure as shit seems that way. You lock in on single things, and just try to beat them to death. It's f***ing mind-blowing how you continually ignore all pieces of a post to focus on one single thing in it.

 

[Larmer83]

I realize +/- is not the most reliable stat, but can someone please provide a rationalization for the following:

Last 8 games

Saad even
Toews -2
Nylander -7

 

[ChiHawks10]

I realize +/- is not the most reliable stat, but can someone please provide a rationalization for the following:

Last 8 games

Saad even
Toews -2
Nylander -7

It's too hard to do. It could be as simple as bad luck, or Nylander missing shifts with them, so he's out there with other guys(JC has kept his minutes down in comparison to those other two). I think Nylander spent some time on some garbage lines that got beat to hell, too, at points in the last 8 games. Never a good stat to look at, and even harder to rationalize how the above happens, without going back and looking at every goal scored over the past 8 games. It could be as simple as Nylander just hasn't changed because he's not in a position to, and Toews and Saad have. It's just hard to say, which is why that is such a garbage stat.

 

[ChiHawk21]

I actually said 18-20 points. And I don't think that's unrealistic. And your reading comprehension really does suck. I blamed it on multiple players, but pointed out that Toews is the biggest contributing factor...

Do you just refuse to read? Or can you just not comprehend multiple things at one time? Can your brain not handle more than single thing at once?

i think the other people can see for themselves about this back and forth.