Player Discussion The Future of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 3: Playoffs Edition

[LTIR]

I could see Foligno doing the Hall thing, and not compromising on the money, but with the handshake agreement that if the team (ie Columbus) is bad then they will trade him to a contender.

And that would be perfect for us considering we have a 1yr cap cushion and can overpay this 35pt player.

 

[MoontoScott]

RNH is part of a core forward group that is looking rather weak in comparison to the other playoff teams. It is obvious (in the minds of many posters here) that the Oil have a long way to go before thinking about a championship.

Paying him what he wants further limits the ability to upgrade the core forwards so imho Oiler management is less inclined to sign him now that some of the results from the second round are coming in.

I also think that Holland and Katz are getting a closer look as to how the Oilers coaching compares to the top notch teams. It is a bit of an eye opener but that's the beauty of the playoffs. You see what your relative strength is.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

RNH is part of a core forward group that is looking rather weak in comparison to the other playoff teams. It is obvious (in the minds of many posters here) that the Oil have a long way to go before thinking about a championship.

Paying him what he wants further limits the ability to upgrade the core forwards so imho Oiler management is less inclined to sign him now that some of the results from the second round are coming in.

I also think that Holland and Katz are getting a closer look as to how the Oilers coaching compares to the top notch teams. In my mind its a bit of an eye opener but that's the beauty of the playoffs. You see what your relative strength is.

The Oilers haven’t bothered to try upgrading their forward core in about a decade. Their scouts have failed to identify anything of worth.

 

[McOilers97]

As someone that doesn’t believe that RNH moves the needle for this team, any deal longer than a couple years while we wait for our players internally to pass him, or Holland to swing a big trade, would be a mistake.

5+ years for RNH would be like continuing to date someone for years and years, even if you couldn’t see yourself marrying them. The ultimate goal is a Cup for this group, and I don’t see how RNH playing a large role for big money into his 30s helps gets them there. We know we can make the playoffs with him around, but that’s not good enough. This team has a high ceiling if the right supporting players are added in.

Would rather take a chance on some cheaper players short-term. We need flexibility more than we need a player that won’t live up to the contract he is asking for.

 

[Soundwave]

As someone that doesn’t believe that RNH moves the needle for this team, any deal longer than a couple years while we wait for our players internally to pass him, or Holland to swing a big trade, would be a mistake.

5+ years for RNH would be like continuing to date someone for years and years, even if you couldn’t see yourself marrying them. The ultimate goal is a Cup for this group, and I don’t see how RNH playing a large role for big money into his 30s helps gets them there. We know we can make the playoffs with him around, but that’s not good enough. This team has a high ceiling if the right supporting players are added in.

Would rather take a chance on some cheaper players short-term. We need flexibility more than we need a player that won’t live up to the contract he is asking for.

Someone actually gets this and has some concept of a long term view beyond just next year.

 

[Czechboy]

I think we should keep him. Let's say 5 x 6 or 6 x 5. Anyway you like.

Here is my question... If we let him walk... Who are we getting for that money that makes us better?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

As someone that doesn’t believe that RNH moves the needle for this team, any deal longer than a couple years while we wait for our players internally to pass him, or Holland to swing a big trade, would be a mistake.

5+ years for RNH would be like continuing to date someone for years and years, even if you couldn’t see yourself marrying them. The ultimate goal is a Cup for this group, and I don’t see how RNH playing a large role for big money into his 30s helps gets them there. We know we can make the playoffs with him around, but that’s not good enough. This team has a high ceiling if the right supporting players are added in.

Would rather take a chance on some cheaper players short-term. We need flexibility more than we need a player that won’t live up to the contract he is asking for.

Yeah this org has an awesome track record with bringing in players from the outside. Maybe Curtis Lazar for 4 years?

 

[McOilers97]

Yeah this org has an awesome track record with bringing in players from the outside. Maybe Curtis Lazar for 4 years?

You keep trumpeting this, but enough has changed in the last few years that I’m not going to agree with you. Nobody is saying stick a bottom 6 player in the top 6. The point is that there are other top 6 guys in UFA that can certainly be had for shorter term than RNH, and I think the Oilers can land 1 or 2 of them.

The thought of running it back this year with RNH locked up for 5+ more years is quite sickening to me.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You keep trumpeting this, but enough has changed in the last few years that I’m not going to agree with you. Nobody is saying stick a bottom 6 player in the top 6. The point is that there are other top 6 guys in UFA that can certainly be had for shorter term than RNH, and I think the Oilers can land 1 or 2 of them.

The thought of running it back this year with RNH locked up for 5+ more years is quite sickening to me.

Yeah? Who’s coming here? More bargain bin rejects? Yippee.

 

[McOilers97]

Yeah? Who’s coming here? More bargain bin rejects? Yippee.

We got freaking Barrie last year dude, why’s it so hard to believe that McDavid + Draisaitl could be a draw for a few good players?

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

We got freaking Barrie last year dude, why’s it so hard to believe that McDavid + Draisaitl could be a draw for a few good players?

Barrie came here for one reason: to land a larger contract. The Oilers have been woefully incapable of bringing in good forwards for almost a decade.

 

[McOilers97]

Barrie came here for one reason: to land a larger contract. The Oilers have been woefully incapable of bringing in good forwards for almost a decade.

Since Lucic in 2016, when have we been in the market for any $5-6m forwards? The answer is “never” because Chiarelli f***ed everything up. Never in Holland’s tenure have we signed a UFA for more than $4m AAV, because the cap space wasn’t there until now.

But maybe we should just do your idea - commit long-term to a player that doesn’t know how to elevate his game when we really need him to. Just marry the girl you think is kinda okay-ish, that’ll get you where you want to go for sure...

 

[belair]

We got freaking Barrie last year dude, why’s it so hard to believe that McDavid + Draisaitl could be a draw for a few good players?

Because most 'good' players are highly sought after assets that don't need to sign sweetheart deals for short-term to inflate their stat lines.

Barrie was a rare opportunity. If you want a similar buy-low option next season, his name is Anthony DeAngelo. Otherwise, you're digging through depth guys, hoping that one doesn't have a ton of other suitors.

 

[MoontoScott]

As someone that doesn’t believe that RNH moves the needle for this team, any deal longer than a couple years while we wait for our players internally to pass him, or Holland to swing a big trade, would be a mistake.

5+ years for RNH would be like continuing to date someone for years and years, even if you couldn’t see yourself marrying them. The ultimate goal is a Cup for this group, and I don’t see how RNH playing a large role for big money into his 30s helps gets them there. We know we can make the playoffs with him around, but that’s not good enough. This team has a high ceiling if the right supporting players are added in.

Would rather take a chance on some cheaper players short-term. We need flexibility more than we need a player that won’t live up to the contract he is asking for.

Sounds like you dated some of the same girls that I did.

 

[McOilers97]

Sounds like you dated some of the same girls that I did.

My dating history really isn’t very extensive, just thought it was a good analogy.

 

[Mr Positive]

I bet both sides are at a point where RNH needs to hit UFA status. The team has an offer, and it isn't close to what RNH wants. But, perhaps when RNH hits UFA status he doesn't get the kind of offers he thinks he gets. So, the smart move is for Holland to let this play out.

A huge benefit of doing it this way is that we don't have to protect him, at least. I still say there's a decent chance he ends up on the Oilers still. And of course, if Nuge is asking for a number that starts with a 6 or 7, we really can't play ball with that.

 

[Soul8]

Someone actually gets this and has some concept of a long term view beyond just next year.

seems to me more and more people and media are questioning Nuge's value. I haven't been a fan of him as a player for years already. last year being an outlier.

 

[MoontoScott]

I bet both sides are at a point where RNH needs to hit UFA status. The team has an offer, and it isn't close to what RNH wants. But, perhaps when RNH hits UFA status he doesn't get the kind of offers he thinks he gets. So, the smart move is for Holland to let this play out.

A huge benefit of doing it this way is that we don't have to protect him, at least. I still say there's a decent chance he ends up on the Oilers still. And of course, if Nuge is asking for a number that starts with a 6 or 7, we really can't play ball with that.

Tend to agree--- when he hits the open market the offers may be rather underwhelming so at that point he takes the lower offer to rejoin the Oilers or its time for both parties to move on. Signing him to a Lucic type deal shouldn't happen because buyer's regret sets in almost immediately.

 

[Smartguy]

I think we should keep him. Let's say 5 x 6 or 6 x 5. Anyway you like.

Here is my question... If we let him walk... Who are we getting for that money that makes us better?

I mean that’s the question that gets asked a million times. It’s not what you can do with the money on one player though, it’s what you could do with 2-3 players for that price IMO.

If you pay RNH 7M, and he puts up a whopping season like this past of 15 Even strength points, playing with 2 of the best players in the world, that’s not good.

IMO a combination of Danault and Saad from FA this offseason, for say 8-9M, is a better and more productive duo then bringing RNH back for another year

Draisaitl-Mcdavid-Pulju
Saad-Danault-X/Yamamoto


Any way you slice it the Oilers have way to many holes to keep going the TO route and paying top dollar for every top 6 forward you have just because you think you can’t replace them. Having RNH not on the team next season could hurt the team, having RNH next season on the roster with his horrible production at 7M could also hurt the team. I am not envious of Holland here

 

[Czechboy]

I mean that’s the question that gets asked a million times. It’s not what you can do with the money on one player though, it’s what you could do with 2-3 players for that price IMO.

If you pay RNH 7M, and he puts up a whopping season like this past of 15 Even strength points, playing with 2 of the best players in the world, that’s not good.

IMO a combination of Danault and Saad from FA this offseason, for say 8-9M, is a better and more productive duo then bringing RNH back for another year

Draisaitl-Mcdavid-Pulju
Saad-Danault-X/Yamamoto


Any way you slice it the Oilers have way to many holes to keep going the TO route and paying top dollar for every top 6 forward you have just because you think you can’t replace them. Having RNH not on the team next season could hurt the team, having RNH next season on the roster with his horrible production at 7M could also hurt the team. I am not envious of Holland here

LIke I say.. I'm in the keep him camp.

I won't die if he leaves.. I'm just curious what we replace him with OR where the money goes elsewhere.

Saad and Danault is interesting... they are both 28 which I don't like.

 

[LTIR]

I think we should keep him. Let's say 5 x 6 or 6 x 5. Anyway you like.

Here is my question... If we let him walk... Who are we getting for that money that makes us better?

Better at what?
Scoring ES?
Faceoffs?
Physical play?
Left side on PP?
PK?

It really depends on what you think he is great at that he deserves over 5M. I just see him hanging in there as top 6 forward playing big minutes as his biggest strength. (Ie Energy conservation skills)

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Ideally we keep him at a reasonable rate and add a few more solid forwards, 1 for the top 6 and 1 for the bottom 6 and then add a few more depth guys that are upgrades on what we have now.

 

[LTIR]

LIke I say.. I'm in the keep him camp.

I won't die if he leaves.. I'm just curious what we replace him with OR where the money goes elsewhere.

Saad and Danault is interesting... they are both 28 which I don't like.

Too young?.. We need to go with with more veterans who know how to win these close playoffs games.
28 is prime age for players.

 

[Czechboy]

Better at what?
Scoring ES?
Faceoffs?
Physical play?
Left side on PP?
PK?

It really depends on what you think he is great at that he deserves over 5M. I just see him hanging in there as top 6 forward playing big minutes as his biggest strength. (Ie Energy conservation skills)

I'm not arguing to keep him... it's my preference but I just want to hear what others think would be 'better'. Even if it's 2 guys then what are they bringing?

If I were to replace him I'd want a 3C and Top 6 winger on the Left side.

I'd want my 3C to be physical and good at playoffs.

I'd want my Top 6 winger to be a good 5 on 5 scorer.

However, I don't know who those 2 guys are and how much they'd cost.

 

[Czechboy]

Too young?.. We need to go with with more veterans who know how to win these close playoffs games.
28 is prime age for players.

Agreed.. but when you sign them at 28 they turn 29 real fast and then they're in their 30's on Russel/Abdelkader/Kassian type contracts (all given out by Holland).

I have no problem with older players but they need to be damn good and effective.