Player Discussion The Future of Ryan Nugent-Hopkins 3: Playoffs Edition

[Spawn]

Last two years in the playoffs all Oiler forwards:

Total points 3rd with 10 behind Draisailt 11 and McDavid 13
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Shots: 2nd at 36 behind Draisaitl at 37
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Individual scoring chances: 1st
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Individual HDCF: 1st
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

5 vs 5
Total points: 3rd with 4 behind Draisailt 5 and McDavid 7
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Shots: 1st
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Individual scoring chances: 1st
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Individual HDCF: 1st
Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Assuming it is true that he does nothing, for a weak, perimeter player what are the things that actually count??

What is your honest assessment of Nuge in the playoffs this season? And do you honestly think last years play-ins after no hockey for months against a bottom 10 team is really an accurate representation of a players ability to perform in the playoffs?

 

[Beerfish]

RNH has some value but he does not move the needle. I'd easily prioritize Barrie over RNH.

The whole thing would be, with the 6 millon plus you save on RNH what else can you retain or bring in.

I'd rather have a legit scoring winger who can produce 5 on 5 and pp.

This team has underachieved with RNH and Larsson and we are in a rush to resign these guys.

I do not think any of the RNH fans on here should worry though Holland will give him a long term deal.

 

[Fourier]

What is your honest assessment of Nuge in the playoffs this season? And do you honestly think last years play-ins after no hockey for months against a bottom 10 team is really an accurate representation of a players ability to perform in the playoffs?

I posted the numbers in my response because your comments reflect what a lot of people feel. But we (and I include myself, )do tend to see what we like. What those numbers show is that he was far more involved in the play than many might remember. There are limitations to the usefulness of stats like iHDCF for example but it is hard to lead the team in that specific stat if you are hanging around the perimeter all the time doing nothing.

More specifically, last year I thought he was very good. Lots of jump and with even a little luck his line could have had even more results that may have turned the series. This year he was definitely more the passive player that drives everyone around here nuts. I like last year's version a lot better, but I also think that his coach likes the safe approach just as much. Most of the lost last year was attributed to playing too loose.

This year Nuge was on the ice for one 5 vs 5 goal against and despite not looking all that dynamic his line mostly did what I think they were asked to do... Play against both of Winnipeg's top two lines and come out even which is exactly what they did on the scoreboard, while actually quietly generating more good chances than the they gave up to the opposition. The plan seemed to be, if they accomplished that then the Oiler's big line would tilt the series in the Oiler's favour. That is exaclty the stragtegy they used to dominate the season series with the Jets. Had Hellebucyk not stood on his head I think the results might have been similar. In the end the regular season games were closer than the outcomes indicated and the playoffs were as well.

Nuge is a guy who does what he is asked to do in a way that is not at all showy. He's not going to run around hitting guys or try to beat two defensemen by himself. If he is to err it will be on the conservative side. If he is your best player then you have a problem. But if his role is complementary in nature he can do that well enough to justify his salary. If the Oilers were a team that could attract top flight UFA's, then moving on would be a lot easier. But few of the realistic options people list here do that. Much more likely is he walks and the replacement is a lesser player who costs a similar amount. Moreover, there are other holes to fill. Why not take the low hanging fruit rather than making your job even more challenging.

 

[TheNumber4]

RNH has some value but he does not move the needle. I'd easily prioritize Barrie over RNH.

The whole thing would be, with the 6 millon plus you save on RNH what else can you retain or bring in.

I'd rather have a legit scoring winger who can produce 5 on 5 and pp.

This team has underachieved with RNH and Larsson and we are in a rush to resign these guys.

I do not think any of the RNH fans on here should worry though Holland will give him a long term deal.

Good players don’t come to Edmonton. Keep the good players we have and add hoping we get lucky a good player likes McDavids game enough to overlook playing in Edmonton.

 

[Beerfish]

Good players don’t come to Edmonton. Keep the good players we have and add hoping we get lucky a good player likes McDavids game enough to overlook playing in Edmonton.

Baloney, Tyson Barrie came to the oilers, players would like to play with mcdavid and draistial. It's just a competitive situation for the best fa's

Our strat seems to be sign the guys we have failed with who are not going to improve and just shuffle the bottom of the roster deck as usual and cross our fingers.

 

[TheNumber4]

Baloney, Tyson Barrie came to the oilers, players would like to play with mcdavid and draistial. It's just a competitive situation for the best fa's

Our strat seems to be sign the guys we have failed with who are not going to improve and just shuffle the bottom of the roster deck as usual and cross our fingers.

A Perfect Storm scenario lead to us getting an established talent player like Barrie. First he had to go to Toronto and fail out of there, then flat cap had to happen, then we still needed him to take a discount to come here, then we probably wouldn’t have got him if we didn’t have a historically hot PP. And still after a career year here he’s probably not staying long term.

Signing Barrie was an exception to the rule. Not a norm for this organization. Guys like Jokinen, Haas, Jurco, Chiasson... those are who we usually get.

 

[Sweetpotato]

RNH has some value but he does not move the needle. I'd easily prioritize Barrie over RNH.

The whole thing would be, with the 6 millon plus you save on RNH what else can you retain or bring in.

I'd rather have a legit scoring winger who can produce 5 on 5 and pp.

This team has underachieved with RNH and Larsson and we are in a rush to resign these guys.

I do not think any of the RNH fans on here should worry though Holland will give him a long term deal.

Saying the team has underachieved with them as a reason to move on is like saying McDavid and Draisaitl are another reason we've underachieved.

I agree with you RNH should be moved on from but unless you can get Savard in FA for less than Larsson you don't let Larsson walk. He's a valuable shutdown dman that played his best hockey as the season went on and will be on a cheap contract relative to comparables in the league.

 

[JayE]

RNH has some value but he does not move the needle. I'd easily prioritize Barrie over RNH.

The whole thing would be, with the 6 millon plus you save on RNH what else can you retain or bring in.

I'd rather have a legit scoring winger who can produce 5 on 5 and pp.

This team has underachieved with RNH and Larsson and we are in a rush to resign these guys.

I do not think any of the RNH fans on here should worry though Holland will give him a long term deal.

This team has underachieved with two of the best 5 players in the NHL. Should we move on from them, too? I can understand some trepidation about RNH, but I can't fathom anyone seeing Barrie as more valuable than Larsson when you factor in the cost.

 

[Soundwave]

It's fair to ask what is the smarter long term play

Hoffman 5 million x 1 year + Haula (C/LW) 2 million x 1 year = 7 mill total

Versus

Nugent Hopkins 6.5 million x 6 years

One gives us way better long and short term cap flexibility, the other locks us in to a player that doesn't bring enough 5 on 5 or in the playoffs as he ages into his 30s.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

It's fair to ask what is the smarter long term play

Hoffman 5 million x 1 year + Haula (C/LW) 2 million x 1 year = 7 mill total

Versus

Nugent Hopkins 6.5 million x 6 years

One gives us way better long and short term cap flexibility, the other locks us in to a player that doesn't bring enough 5 on 5 or in the playoffs as he ages into his 30s.

Why does Hoffman take a 2nd one year deal in a row? Why does he do so for Edmonton?

 

[Soundwave]

Why does Hoffman take a 2nd one year deal in a row? Why does he do so for Edmonton?

I mean he had an OK season, but I don't think he's going to score a massive long term deal.

Edmonton is not a bad fit for him, gets to play with McDavid or Draisaitl and all the top unit PP time he wants.

 

[Beerfish]

This team has underachieved with two of the best 5 players in the NHL. Should we move on from them, too? I can understand some trepidation about RNH, but I can't fathom anyone seeing Barrie as more valuable than Larsson when you factor in the cost.

Defensive Dman are much easier to come by than offensive puck moving get it to your play makers dmen, that is why the cost will be different. We could lose Larsson and repalce him with a near enough player still at a cheap cost.

We are not replacing Barrie with just a guy.

You're first statement was kind of silly, the whole team is the 1st two guys. The surrounding cast has failed and people want to keep on trotting out the same surrounding cast year after year.

 

[Beerfish]

Saying the team has underachieved with them as a reason to move on is like saying McDavid and Draisaitl are another reason we've underachieved.

I agree with you RNH should be moved on from but unless you can get Savard in FA for less than Larsson you don't let Larsson walk. He's a valuable shutdown dman that played his best hockey as the season went on and will be on a cheap contract relative to comparables in the league.

Adam Larsson had a good year last year. If he played that way over a number of years fine and good, he has not, he has been consistently inconsistent in his time here. Good year bad year good half year bad half year.

 

[Mr Positive]

Why does Hoffman take a 2nd one year deal in a row? Why does he do so for Edmonton?

Hoffman is going to be 32 next season, so I doubt he's getting a long term deal from anyone. I could see maybe 3 years if the AAV is brought down with the third year. But, I could see just one year deals too

 

[McJadeddog]

It's fair to ask what is the smarter long term play

Hoffman 5 million x 1 year + Haula (C/LW) 2 million x 1 year = 7 mill total

Versus

Nugent Hopkins 6.5 million x 6 years

One gives us way better long and short term cap flexibility, the other locks us in to a player that doesn't bring enough 5 on 5 or in the playoffs as he ages into his 30s.

RNH isn't going to sign in Edmonton for 6.5, maybe 6

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Hoffman is going to be 32 next season, so I doubt he's getting a long term deal from anyone. I could see maybe 3 years if the AAV is brought down with the third year. But, I could see just one year deals too

Then why does he pick here over other teams with cheaper taxes and warmer weather?

 

[LTIR]

A Perfect Storm scenario lead to us getting an established talent player like Barrie. First he had to go to Toronto and fail out of there, then flat cap had to happen, then we still needed him to take a discount to come here, then we probably wouldn’t have got him if we didn’t have a historically hot PP. And still after a career year here he’s probably not staying long term.

Signing Barrie was an exception to the rule. Not a norm for this organization. Guys like Jokinen, Haas, Jurco, Chiasson... those are who we usually get.

There could be many other perfect storm situations created if you got McDrai on the team and have cap space.
Foligno as an example will be cheaper than Nuge and if he stays healthy will produce more at ES while being the best physical player on the squad.
Would he go back to Jackets or possibly give Edmonton a shot knowing the team is pretty much a lock to make post season considering the division

 

[Mr Positive]

Then why does he pick here over other teams with cheaper taxes and warmer weather?

The draw to play with McDavid or Draisaitl is real.

Also, you'd have to think there is a limited number of teams who would be realistic suitors for Hoffman. He's not joining a rebuilding squad, and lots of good teams will be totally capped out.

We don't know what motivates Hoffman. If our team is targeting Hoffman, it would be as good a bet as any other suitor.

 

[Mr Positive]

There could be many other perfect storm situations created if you got McDrai on the team and have cap space.
Foligno as an example will be cheaper than Nuge and if he stays healthy will produce more at ES while being the best physical player on the squad.
Would he go back to Jackets or possibly give Edmonton a shot knowing the team is pretty much a lock to make post season considering the division

I could see Foligno doing the Hall thing, and not compromising on the money, but with the handshake agreement that if the team (ie Columbus) is bad then they will trade him to a contender.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Then why does he pick here over other teams with cheaper taxes and warmer weather?

Warmer weather is overrated. It was 42C in Vegas yesterday at game time. Not sure if thats a record for a hockey game. Arizona probably has that..I'll take -30C before anything over +40. seriously

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Warmer weather is overrated. It was 42C in Vegas yesterday at game time. Not sure if thats a record for a hockey game. Arizona probably has that..I'll take -30C before anything over +40. seriously

I'll take it a bit further and say really hot weather flat out sucks, especially if you have to work in it. That said year after year we see players flock to the likes of Florida, Nevada and California.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Baloney, Tyson Barrie came to the oilers, players would like to play with mcdavid and draistial. It's just a competitive situation for the best fa's

Our strat seems to be sign the guys we have failed with who are not going to improve and just shuffle the bottom of the roster deck as usual and cross our fingers.

Barrie came for a fat contract in 2022.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I'll take it a bit further and say really hot weather flat out sucks, especially if you have to work in it. That said year after year we see players flock to the likes of Florida, Nevada and California.

Yep. I can understand why so many equatorial countries, or even those closer to the equator have Siestas mid day. you just aren't getting much done in the mid day heat. Roofing has to be the worst. I don't even know how they get people to do that in warmer places. Not in summer I presume.

Canada is making a comeback as a destination. More people are seeing it as a pretty good country to live in. Could be better but..

 

[MessierII]

Barrie came for a fat contract in 2022.

And why is that a bad thing? If anything Barries on ice results should encourage more players to do the same.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

And why is that a bad thing? If anything Barries on ice results should encourage more players to do the same.

Yeah castoffs looking for a pay raise, assuming of course that they perform above expectations. More Kassians please.