The Flyers Draft 7th; Who Do You Want?

[SchennSational1022*]

I think people are confusing the definition of "Specialist"

Specialist- a person who has special knowledge and skill relating to a particular job, area of study, etc.

That does not mean that A specialist ONLY has special knowledge and skill relating to that particular job.

When most people refer to somebody as a "PP specialist", it mainly means somebody like a Marc Andre Bergeron. A guy who is useless on the ice unless it's on the PP, utilizing his big shot and/or play making abilities that must be sheltered at ES. That is not the case with Ghost, not even close.

 

[Jtown]

When most people refer to somebody as a "PP specialist", it mainly means somebody like a Marc Andre Bergeron. A guy who is useless on the ice unless it's on the PP, utilizing his big shot and/or play making abilities that must be sheltered at ES. That is not the case with Ghost, not even close.

Well then "Most People" are inferring the wrong meaning of PP specialist.

If someone where to say that that marc andre bergeron is a pp specialist they would be correct. If they were to say he is exclusively a pp specialist they would also be correct.

Karlsson is a pp specialist, but he is not exclusviely a pp specialist.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end. Calling his future one of a PP specialist is really not unwarranted at all at this point, and its 100% most certainly more warranted than saying you expect to see elite potential out of him.

 

[Rebels57]

as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end. Calling his future one of a PP specialist is really not unwarranted at all at this point, and its 100% most certainly more warranted than saying you expect to see elite potential out of him.

Yeah I don't think he projects to be an elite all-around defensemen.

He could certainly end up being as good as a guy like Dan Boyle or Brian Rafalski though.

Comparing him to Duncan Keith is off in my opinion. A guy like Sanheim projects more like Keith. Similar size, skill and 200 foot game.

 

[renberg]

as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end. Calling his future one of a PP specialist is really not unwarranted at all at this point, and its 100% most certainly more warranted than saying you expect to see elite potential out of him.

I get it. Only defenseman that can't be manhandled in their own end are the guys to have-like Grossmann and LSchenn.
There are many aspects to a defenseman' game. Ghost has some great ones in his speed, shot and vision of the game when he's on the ice. He may not be the strongest guy in the league buy he'll learn to use positioning and his stick to make up for his deficiencies.
This organization finally has a crop of great defensive prospects but to read this forum, they all suck. Morin can't shoot; Sanheim isn't physical enough; Hagg is lackadaisical. Just for kicks, Bobby Orr wasn't the most physical defenseman but some how he managed to eke out a career in the League.

 

[Curufinwe]

Comparing him to Duncan Keith is off in my opinion. A guy like Sanheim projects more like Keith. Similar size, skill and 200 foot game.

Keith was listed as being 5-11, 176 when he was 22.

 

[FLYguy3911]

as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end. Calling his future one of a PP specialist is really not unwarranted at all at this point, and its 100% most certainly more warranted than saying you expect to see elite potential out of him.

Wait what? Are we talking about the same player?

 

[Stizzle]

Yeah I don't think he projects to be an elite all-around defensemen.

He could certainly end up being as good as a guy like Dan Boyle or Brian Rafalski though.

Comparing him to Duncan Keith is off in my opinion. A guy like Sanheim projects more like Keith. Similar size, skill and 200 foot game.

Keith and Sanheim will not be a similar size. Sanheim is already at least 6'3, and will easily play at over 200 lbs, maybe closer to 215.

 

[Curufinwe]

Wait what? Are we talking about the same player?

He must not have heard of Erik Karlsson or Tyson Barrie or TJ Brodie or Torey Krug or Anton Stralman or Alex Goligoski or Mark Streit or Ryan Ellis or Kris Russell or Sami Vatanen.

 

[Stizzle]

Didn't realize that. Still, I would be shocked if Ghost is not a fixture on the Flyers PP. As things stand now I would expect either he or Sanheim to run the 1st unit eventually. But I would also expect Sanheim/Morin to be the top pair. If that makes Ghost a "PP specialist" or a poor man's Karlsson is really just semantics.

Sanheim and Morin both play the left side. So don't count on that happening. Morin certainly won't switch sides. Sanheim has played some on the right side, but is much more effective and and comfortable on the left.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Ghost has very high potential as a great all around defenseman. Fortunately for us, we have players like Morin, Hagg, and Sanheim who are all much bigger and capable of handling the heavy lifting in the defensive end while Ghost can poke the puck out and use his awesome skating and creative vision to get the puck going the other way.

I think some of y'all are forgetting how good Ghost was coming into last season and how promising he looked pre injury. If the reports are true that he has built some good mass and if his skating is unaffected by the surgery, there's no reason to think Ghost's development is ruined and that he's no longer still capable of becoming that awesome dman we were all imagining when we saw him tear up the Frozen Four. He wasn't just making highlight reel offensive plays but defensive plays as well

 

[Hiesenberg]

Keith is now listed as 6'1" 200. He grew 2 inches when he was 22?

 

[Tripod]

as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end. Calling his future one of a PP specialist is really not unwarranted at all at this point, and its 100% most certainly more warranted than saying you expect to see elite potential out of him.

Says who? You?

I think you are underestimating him. His skating and passing is really going to help us defend. I think peole will be shocked at how much a difference having a few dmen who can skate and pass will make with our team.

And if he has gained that 20lbs of good weight, he won't get pushed around as much. Plus, if you are smart and fast, you can make up for weight issues.

 

[Tripod]

Ever notice how lots of other teams...as soon as their D gets the puck they take off up the ice...not letting the other team get set up to defend.

Not us. We pass it back and forth from D to D...then most time bank it up the boards or to a forward who has a man right on him. Why? Because that Dman cannot skate with the puck himself or beat a guy to create an opening.

I think we have 1 more panful year coming...then by the deadline Morin and Ghost are in our lineup for good. They the following year, Sanheim and Hagg will follow.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Says who? You?

I think you are underestimating him. His skating and passing is really going to help us defend. I think peole will be shocked at how much a difference having a few dmen who can skate and pass will make with our team.

And if he has gained that 20lbs of good weight, he won't get pushed around as much. Plus, if you are smart and fast, you can make up for weight issues.

Yeah says me that's why I've classified it as my own opinion. I like ghost a lot, but I think people need to tame their expectations of him a tad.

If he's gained weight that should help, but I have concerns about him ability to handle himself and the competition in his own end at the NHL level.

And yes I'm away of erik Karlsson, but ghost is not erik Karlsson, so maybe put that argument to rest. The rest of the guys listen above are hardly "elite" and about on par with what I see ghosts ceiling to be. If he turns out to be a young mark streit with better foot speed, that bodes well for the future for us.

Youd think I'd just murdered his dog with the amount my fairly warranted opinion is being attacked. Let's relax, I like Ghost, I just don't see him becoming an impact defenseman in the mold of Duncan Keith or Erik Karlsson.

 

[Rebels57]

Sanheim and Morin both play the left side. So don't count on that happening. Morin certainly won't switch sides. Sanheim has played some on the right side, but is much more effective and and comfortable on the left.

That doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility.

There are far more left handed defensemen in the league and plenty of good pairs that have one guy playing on his offside.

Morin-Ghost does seem like a good pair but in a few years, Sanheim will likely be the best of the 3, so who do you pair with Sanheim?

 

[Rebels57]

Keith and Sanheim will not be a similar size. Sanheim is already at least 6'3, and will easily play at over 200 lbs, maybe closer to 215.

Keith is 6'1..I guess i'm a little off there but I see a lot of similarities in their game.

 

[Rebels57]

Keith was listed as being 5-11, 176 when he was 22.

That's obviously wrong. He didnt grow 2 inches after the age of 22 lol.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Yeah says me that's why I've classified it as my own opinion. I like ghost a lot, but I think people need to tame their expectations of him a tad.

If he's gained weight that should help, but I have concerns about him ability to handle himself and the competition in his own end at the NHL level.

And yes I'm away of erik Karlsson, but ghost is not erik Karlsson, so maybe put that argument to rest. The rest of the guys listen above are hardly "elite" and about on par with what I see ghosts ceiling to be. If he turns out to be a young mark streit with better foot speed, that bodes well for the future for us.

Youd think I'd just murdered his dog with the amount my fairly warranted opinion is being attacked. Let's relax, I like Ghost, I just don't see him becoming an impact defenseman in the mold of Duncan Keith or Erik Karlsson.

Maybe I missed it, but other than mentioning his size, I didn't see you give a reason for why he won't produce at ES.

The last thing I am worried about is his ability to produce at even strength.

 

[Striiker]

That's obviously wrong. He didnt grow 2 inches after the age of 22 lol.

Or maybe they're just being generous with his height now, like they are with a lot of guys. I've heard commentators mention how off the "official" heights are for tons of shorter players, they do it allll the time.

 

[Curufinwe]

He either grew or got his listed height raised at some point, because there are multiple sources from before he made the NHL talking about him being six foot or shorter.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articl...semen_duncan_keith_a_future_blackhawk_winger/

No one doubts how well the almost six foot Duncan Keith his skating. He gets going quick and out- distances the guys around him. At Penticton Jr A he had a hefty 64 assists to go with his 18 goals, so he certainly displays skill, touch and instinct to carry the biscuit, jump into the plays from the defensemen position.

The question is would he actually be able to make it as an NHL defensemen at his size and strength. He doesn’t project to grow past six foot.

http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-hockey/mtt/duncan_keith_124496.html

Height / Weight:
6-0 / 173

 

[Tripod]

Yeah says me that's why I've classified it as my own opinion. I like ghost a lot, but I think people need to tame their expectations of him a tad.

If he's gained weight that should help, but I have concerns about him ability to handle himself and the competition in his own end at the NHL level.

And yes I'm away of erik Karlsson, but ghost is not erik Karlsson, so maybe put that argument to rest. The rest of the guys listen above are hardly "elite" and about on par with what I see ghosts ceiling to be. If he turns out to be a young mark streit with better foot speed, that bodes well for the future for us.

Youd think I'd just murdered his dog with the amount my fairly warranted opinion is being attacked. Let's relax, I like Ghost, I just don't see him becoming an impact defenseman in the mold of Duncan Keith or Erik Karlsson.

The bolded is fine to say.

It's when you say:

"as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end."

You are saying he cannot be effective ES player due to his size. That is 100% wrong.

That was my issue with what you said. There is a WHOLE bunch of players in between a Keith/Karlsson and an in-effective offensive dman at ES.

 

[Appleyard]

Or maybe they're just being generous with his height now, like they are with a lot of guys. I've heard commentators mention how off the "official" heights are for tons of shorter players, they do it allll the time.

I think with Keith he is most likely inbetween 6'0 and 6'1.

He was listed at 5'11 and ~170lbs aged 17 at the draft. So no way he only put on ~6lbs in 4 years.

At Michigan State listed at 6'0 and 173lbs.
http://www.msuspartans.com/sports/m-hockey/mtt/duncan_keith_124496.html

Then joining Kelowna at 6'0 and 175lbs. http://whl.ca/roster/bio/100463

The only place I can find him listed at 5'11 after the draft was on hf! A 6'0 listing aged 18-22 is the predominant one.

He probably was ~5'11 age 17 and grew an inch after that. But since joining the NHL has had his height rounded up to 6'1... even if he is only 6'025.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Maybe I missed it, but other than mentioning his size, I didn't see you give a reason for why he won't produce at ES.

The last thing I am worried about is his ability to produce at even strength.

i didn't ever necessarily he wouldn't be effective offensively at ES, all i said was that i'm concerned that his contribution at ES wont be worth my feeling that he may not be able to handle himself or his competition in his own end at the NHL level. that ability to score and create offense might not get the chance to come to fruition if he's incapable of gaining position or the puck in his own end. Sure, there are alot of successful defenseman that could fit that mold, but my point is that not many (if any) could be considered top pairing defenseman, and certainly not many could be considered elite. Thus, my assessment that he could feasibly top out as a #4 guy who contributes most of his points on the PP.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

The bolded is fine to say.

It's when you say:

"as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end."

You are saying he cannot be effective ES player due to his size. That is 100% wrong.

That was my issue with what you said. There is a WHOLE bunch of players in between a Keith/Karlsson and an in-effective offensive dman at ES.

what i said was "as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end."

all i mean by that is that it doesn't = an elite top pairing defenseman, which is what my original point was aimed at.

sure there are alot of defenseman between keith and karlsson that ghost could conceivably reach the level of, but that's not my point.