The Flyers Draft 7th; Who Do You Want?

[Random Forest]

Manhandling in his own end? What?

Why is that "inevitable"? He doesn't need to be Duncan Keith to be passable in his own zone. You're being melodramatic.

 

[Stizzle]

That doesn't necessarily rule out the possibility.

There are far more left handed defensemen in the league and plenty of good pairs that have one guy playing on his offside.

Morin-Ghost does seem like a good pair but in a few years, Sanheim will likely be the best of the 3, so who do you pair with Sanheim?

We definitely need to get our hands on a higher end right shot D than we already have on the team or in the system. There should be some available with the TB pick. Carlo or Meloche seem like the best candidates to me. Juulsen, J. Roy, and Spencer are also ranked in that neighborhood.

Either that or draft a LHD that feels comfortable playing the right side. Werenski has a good amount of experience playing the right side. But to the best of my knowledge played left this year at Michigan and left at the WJC's. So I don't know if he translates to playing right in the NHL or not.

In any event, we all know it's pretty much impossible to aquire one without drafting one yourself. So either this year or next year hopefully one will pop up in the draft that they like.

 

[FLYguy3911]

i didn't ever necessarily he wouldn't be effective offensively at ES, all i said was that i'm concerned that his contribution at ES wont be worth my feeling that he may not be able to handle himself or his competition in his own end at the NHL level. that ability to score and create offense might not get the chance to come to fruition if he's incapable of gaining position or the puck in his own end. Sure, there are alot of successful defenseman that could fit that mold, but my point is that not many (if any) could be considered top pairing defenseman, and certainly not many could be considered elite. Thus, my assessment that he could feasibly top out as a #4 guy who contributes most of his points on the PP.

Between calling him a PP specialist and a guy that will struggle at ES your opinion certainly didn't exactly come as a ringing endorsement. There are more ways to defend than just being big. He showed that at the college level and in his brief time in the AHL. He is an exceptional puck mover. That is how he defends. He gets the puck out of the defensive zone. That is a skill that should translate to the next level. Unless he has Luke Schenn as his partner, I don't expect him to be a guy that continually gets pinned in his own zone.

May he turn out to be just a #4? Sure. May he struggle in his own zone against bigger guys? Sure. But projecting him as a "PP specialist" is a slight in my opinion, but believe what you want.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Manhandling in his own end? What?

Why is that "inevitable"? He doesn't need to be Duncan Keith to be passable in his own zone. You're being melodramatic.

I'm not really being melodramatic at all, i'm just kind of voicing my opinion... if he's able to get by in that area at the NHL level then ****ing great, but i have my doubts.

 

[Tripod]

what i said was "as of right now he does not have the physical makeup to be an effective offensive defenseman at ES worth the compromise of his inevitable manhandling in his own end."

all i mean by that is that it doesn't = an elite top pairing defenseman, which is what my original point was aimed at.

sure there are alot of defenseman between keith and karlsson that ghost could conceivably reach the level of, but that's not my point.

Then that is fair. I hope he ends up an elite top pairing, but certainly don't expect it. I figure if he is like Shattenkirk we will all be pleased.

Well...great convo about who we should take at #7.

 

[PALE PWNR]

Crouse, no Zacha, no I mean Connor, no I think I really want Provorov, no Crouse again, but what about Barzal, maybe Werenski?

lol I dont care who we pick. I think its going to be awesome to have whoever we get, I think me personally I really want Crouse because I can just see him playing on Giroux or Couturiers wing in October and that is ****ing awesome!

 

[Appleyard]

i didn't ever necessarily he wouldn't be effective offensively at ES, all i said was that i'm concerned that his contribution at ES wont be worth my feeling that he may not be able to handle himself or his competition in his own end at the NHL level. that ability to score and create offense might not get the chance to come to fruition if he's incapable of gaining position or the puck in his own end. Sure, there are alot of successful defenseman that could fit that mold, but my point is that not many (if any) could be considered top pairing defenseman, and certainly not many could be considered elite. Thus, my assessment that he could feasibly top out as a #4 guy who contributes most of his points on the PP.

I think it depends...

Karlsson
Letang
Kronwall (yep, 5'11 and 190lbs...)
Shattenkirk
Barrie
Leddy
Enstrom
Russell
Spurgeon
Vatanen
Ellis

have all shown that being a similar or smaller stature to Gostisbehere does not inherently mean you are a defensive liability. In the first list the top 6 are all capable top pairing guys, and the bottom four #3-4s on pretty darn good teams.

Ghost was pretty good on D in the NCAA, good stick, good angles and smart... if he is truly 190lbs right now and can adjust to the NHL level I don't think his D should be something we should be unduly worried about... will he get out-muscled on the boards at times? Yes... but his speed, skill and IQ should mean if all goes well he will not find himself in too many board battles in his own end.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

Between calling him a PP specialist and a guy that will struggle at ES your opinion certainly didn't exactly come as a ringing endorsement. There are more ways to defend than just being big. He showed that at the college level and in his brief time in the AHL. He is an exceptional puck mover. That is how he defends. He gets the puck out of the defensive zone. That is a skill that should translate to the next level. Unless he has Luke Schenn as his partner, I don't expect him to be a guy that continually gets pinned in his own zone.

May he turn out to be just a #4? Sure. May he struggle in his own zone against bigger guys? Sure. But projecting him as a "PP specialist" is a slight in my opinion, but believe what you want.

i don't necessarily mean it in a slight. I'm not pinpointing him as a PP specialist in the mold of a Marc-Andre Bergeron type of player, I just mean that most of his offensive contribution at this level will come on the PP if he's not able to handle himself in his own end. I never said it's impossible for him to do that, i just have my doubts that he's capable of overcoming it to the level he'd need to in order to be elite.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

I think it depends...

Karlsson
Letang
Kronwall (yep, 5'11 an 190lbs...)
Shattenkirk
Barrie
Leddy
Enstrom
Russell
Spurgeon
Vatanen
Ellis

have all shown that being a similar or smaller stature to Gostisbehere does not inherently mean you are a defensive liability. In the first list the top 6 are all capable top pairing guys, and the bottom four #3-4s on pretty darn good teams.

Ghost was pretty good on D in the NCAA, good stick, good angles and smart... if he is truly 190lbs right now and can adjust to the NHL level I don't think his D should be something we should be unduly worried about... will he get out-muscled on the boards at times? Yes... but his speed, skill and IQ should mean if all goes well he will not find himself in too many board battles in his own end.

You're right, it does depend, which is why im aware that my opinion isn't a prophecy lol.

I would be happy if he turned out to be a Barrie or Shattenkirk type player.

 

[FLYguy3911]

i don't necessarily mean it in a slight. I'm not pinpointing him as a PP specialist in the mold of a Marc-Andre Bergeron type of player, I just mean that most of his offensive contribution at this level will come on the PP if he's not able to handle himself in his own end. I never said it's impossible for him to do that, i just have my doubts that he's capable of overcoming it to the level he'd need to in order to be elite.

If there's one thing I know about the kid its that he's a ****ing gamer. His drive is incredible. His compete level is off the charts. I know it sounds cliche but you can't quantify those things. He's a big game player. The last two times he played against Johnny Gaudreau, the best college hockey player in over a decade, he outplayed him both times. Might just be me, but I wouldn't bet against the kid becoming a star. He's got "it".

 

[Random Forest]

I'm not really being melodramatic at all, i'm just kind of voicing my opinion... if he's able to get by in that area at the NHL level then ****ing great, but i have my doubts.

You're allowed to have your doubts, but "inevitably gets manhandled in his own zone" is a bit beyond "having your doubts". That's being a bit sensational, ie, melodramatic. There's certainly no reason to believe that to be inevitable...

 

[CutOnDime97]

Crouse, no Zacha, no I mean Connor, no I think I really want Provorov, no Crouse again, but what about Barzal, maybe Werenski?

lol I dont care who we pick.

Agreed, just excited that we will get a great prospect.

 

[Jack Straw]

I think it depends...

Karlsson
Letang
Kronwall (yep, 5'11 and 190lbs...)
Shattenkirk
Barrie
Leddy
Enstrom
Russell
Spurgeon
Vatanen
Ellis

have all shown that being a similar or smaller stature to Gostisbehere does not inherently mean you are a defensive liability. In the first list the top 6 are all capable top pairing guys, and the bottom four #3-4s on pretty darn good teams.

Ghost was pretty good on D in the NCAA, good stick, good angles and smart... if he is truly 190lbs right now and can adjust to the NHL level I don't think his D should be something we should be unduly worried about... will he get out-muscled on the boards at times? Yes... but his speed, skill and IQ should mean if all goes well he will not find himself in too many board battles in his own end.

You forgot someone...

 

[Appleyard]

You forgot someone...

Yep, Rafalski and Boyle as well were both #1 calibre at sub 6ft.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

I may be starting to get on the Zacha train. I wasn't high on him based on what I read earlier this season, but now that I've seen a bit of him I do enjoy his style of play.

Rantanen, Zacha, Provorov, Barzal are who I would take if Marner/Hanifan don't fall.

 

[Jtown]

is it sad that i am higher on zacha than i am on marner rightnow.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

is it sad that i am higher on zacha than i am on marner rightnow.

I don't think so. Some people believe he has the best tools in the draft after McDavid and Eichel.

 

[bauer]

I'm still leaning Provorov. because acquiring a potential top paring D is a hell of a lot harder than acquiring a LW to play in the top 6. top D are never available come UFA time. yet there are usually some good scoring wingers available every year.

in the next 2-3 years cap space will begin to really clear up and we can then sign a good top 6 player. lets stack the D as much as we can until then.

 

[Tripod]

is it sad that i am higher on zacha than i am on marner rightnow.

Not really. I think it comes from spending more time reading about them and watching them.

I know very little of guys like Zboril and Harkins because they were not well hyped and fall in between where we are picking with both picks.

I have not bothered going out of my way to look at .marner hi lights since I have little faith we get him.

 

[Jtown]

I'm still leaning Provorov. because acquiring a potential top paring D is a hell of a lot harder than acquiring a LW to play in the top 6. top D are never available come UFA time. yet there are usually some good scoring wingers available every year.

in the next 2-3 years cap space will begin to really clear up and we can then sign a good top 6 player. lets stack the D as much as we can until then.

Zacha can play LW but he is a center. A 6 3 center with that speed and skill....normally guys like that go very high.

 

[Striiker]

In no order, I want Barzal, Zacha, or Werenski. I wouldn't mind Provorov or Connor. I like Crouse more than Rantanen, but I don't want to pick them based on readiness over potential.

 

[CodyTheHuman]

Zacha can play LW but he is a center. A 6 3 center with that speed and skill....normally guys like that go very high.

And his ceiling is a #1 center. He has the ability to be a game changer and could end up being one of the best picks of the draft.

 

[Jtown]

And his ceiling is a #1 center. He has the ability to be a game changer and could end up being one of the best picks of the draft.

he could. All that he can do is very hard to ignore. He comes with risk but who doesn't. If he hits his upside he is going to be a stud.

 

[bennysflyers16]

he could. All that he can do is very hard to ignore. He comes with risk but who doesn't. If he hits his upside he is going to be a stud.

That last line describes our last 2 1st rounders.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

is it sad that i am higher on zacha than i am on marner rightnow.

I am sending men in white coats and Cooperalls to whisk you away to the nearest draft-related asylum.

Just as there is a crowd who thinks the Barzal appreciation is overboard, I think the Zacha love is over the top. I

know Zacha has tantalizing size and makes the occasional eye popping play, but I see a guy who spends most of his time without the puck, floating in large circles, and not working to get the disc back.

And to not average a PPG in his 17/18 year old junior season, for a guy who is supposed to be an offensive player, is inexcusable.

Of the players being considered in the Flyers' top pick range, Zacha is second only to Rantanen in my DO NOT WANT category. In fact, they are probably the only two guys in the consensus top 10 who I actively don't want. I wouldn't take Crouse, but I wouldn't be upset if they did because he at least does a lot of things I like.