The Flyers Draft 7th; Who Do You Want?

[SchennSational1022*]

As much as I like Zacha, he is a risky pick and the Flyers are not exactly enamored with drafting Euros in round 1 (yes I know he plays in OHL), let alone one with serious question marks. The team who picks him over Marner will be very, very sorry. I think the Flyers drafting Zacha is a pipedream, to say the least.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

As for Ghost, am I the only one who immediately thought "uh oh" to the recent news that he allegedly added 20 pounds of "muscle" while rehabbing his knee injury?

Everyone is saying how wonderful it is, and all I can think of is throwing a bunch of sandbags in the back of a Ferrari.

Count me skeptical. I know Ghost could stand to add some strength, but speed is his game, 20 lbs. is a lot, and to sacrifice some of that edge just to make him a little stronger in the crease, which isn't his game anyway, may have more negatives than positives.

There's too much of an obsession on size in the defensive crease. Ghost isn't going to be a penalty killer. And his game is getting to the puck first and keeping possession. If the other team doesn't have the puck, he's not defending a bigger guy in the crease. If he gets to the puck first in a corner, he's not battling a bigger guy for it.

 

[kelmitchell]

I'd still rather draft provorov, he's better than hanifan imo, he's nhl ready now! Not 4 years from now, the dude is an absolute stud, he will be a top pairing dman in this league, if we pass him up (if he's still there at our pick) we will absolutely regret it

 

[Striiker]

Nobody would pick him over Marner, he'll be long gone before we pick.

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

As for Ghost, am I the only one who immediately thought "uh oh" to the recent news that he allegedly added 20 pounds of "muscle" while rehabbing his knee injury?

Everyone is saying how wonderful it is, and all I can think of is throwing a bunch of sandbags in the back of a Ferrari.

Count me skeptical. I know Ghost could stand to add some strength, but speed is his game, 20 lbs. is a lot, and to sacrifice some of that edge just to make him a little stronger in the crease, which isn't his game anyway, may have more negatives than positives.

There's too much of an obsession on size in the defensive crease. Ghost isn't going to be a penalty killer. And his game is getting to the puck first and keeping possession. If the other team doesn't have the puck, he's not defending a bigger guy in the crease. If he gets to the puck first in a corner, he's not battling a bigger guy for it.

Maybe those 20 lbs went into his legs and now he's as immovable as Crosby. Best not to jump to negative conclusions until we see what we have. I think everyone has agreed it would be great if Ghost could pack on this kind of weight

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I'm not foaming at the mouth to draft Zacha but citing his production or lack thereof is pointless without context.

Sarina wasn't exactly a team loaded with talent plus they traded DeAngelo in season & Chychrun had his share of injuries throughout the course of the year. They scored 232 goals while giving up 263.

Zacha individually had his battles with injuries as well as a couple of suspensions. It's not always easy coming from another league to play elsewhere during draft (most kids with options are likely going to wait until after they are drafted to make the jump). He still finished second on the team in PPG average despite all of this.

I expect him to score at a much higher clip next year as not only should he get better with more experience but also a lot of his teammates who of same age or younger should as well (Chycrhun, Korostelev, Kyrou, etc.)

 

[Tripod]

As for Ghost, am I the only one who immediately thought "uh oh" to the recent news that he allegedly added 20 pounds of "muscle" while rehabbing his knee injury?

Everyone is saying how wonderful it is, and all I can think of is throwing a bunch of sandbags in the back of a Ferrari.

Count me skeptical. I know Ghost could stand to add some strength, but speed is his game, 20 lbs. is a lot, and to sacrifice some of that edge just to make him a little stronger in the crease, which isn't his game anyway, may have more negatives than positives.

There's too much of an obsession on size in the defensive crease. Ghost isn't going to be a penalty killer. And his game is getting to the puck first and keeping possession. If the other team doesn't have the puck, he's not defending a bigger guy in the crease. If he gets to the puck first in a corner, he's not battling a bigger guy for it.

The fact that Murray said Ghost looked great WITH those extra lbs on means a lot. He has no reason to lie or fudge the truth.

He easily could have said that the extra weight seemed to slow Ghost down. But instead he said he looked great.

I will trust that assessment.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The fact that Murray said Ghost looked great WITH those extra lbs on means a lot. He has no reason to lie or fudge the truth.

He easily could have said that the extra weight seemed to slow Ghost down. But instead he said he looked great.

I will trust that assessment.

I will say that Murray's reported comment that Ghost looked great helped alleviate some of my initial concern.

I'm not saying that Ghost is ruined. I'm simply saying that everyone assuming that adding 20 lbs. is automatically beneficial might be prudent to temper that with a bit of caution.

I'll retain a bit of skepticism until I see him back in action with the added weight.

 

[klutch]

I'm still leaning Provorov. because acquiring a potential top paring D is a hell of a lot harder than acquiring a LW to play in the top 6. top D are never available come UFA time. yet there are usually some good scoring wingers available every year.

in the next 2-3 years cap space will begin to really clear up and we can then sign a good top 6 player. lets stack the D as much as we can until then.

I think I'm with you on this. Completely stack and build our back end first. Then grab a forward with TB's pick. I see us taking a goalie as well in the later rounds for depth. If we can strike gold and get a doughty/elite caliber player out of the guys we draft then i consider us a success. Anytime you have a shut down defense with a great goalie, you always have a chance to win games. This also puts LESS pressure on guys like Coots and Giroux to play less defensively and progress more on offense. Also, as you mentioned, we would have the cap room to go out and get a top 6 forward. The future is bright my friends.

 

[Moondog47]

I will say that Murray's reported comment that Ghost looked great helped alleviate some of my initial concern.

I'm not saying that Ghost is ruined. I'm simply saying that everyone assuming that adding 20 lbs. is automatically beneficial might be prudent to temper that with a bit of caution.

I'll retain a bit of skepticism until I see him back in action with the added weight.

The Flyers website lists him at 160 and wikipedia lists him at 170. Putting on 20 lbs of muscle would put him around 180-190. This shouldn't affect his mobility or speed very much. If he was going from 200-220 I would be concerned. Also as someone else pointed out. Probably a decent chance he put some leg muscle on while rehabbing.

 

[Striiker]

And/or some upper body strength when he couldn't work out his legs.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

As for Ghost, am I the only one who immediately thought "uh oh" to the recent news that he allegedly added 20 pounds of "muscle" while rehabbing his knee injury?

Everyone is saying how wonderful it is, and all I can think of is throwing a bunch of sandbags in the back of a Ferrari.

Count me skeptical. I know Ghost could stand to add some strength, but speed is his game, 20 lbs. is a lot, and to sacrifice some of that edge just to make him a little stronger in the crease, which isn't his game anyway, may have more negatives than positives.

There's too much of an obsession on size in the defensive crease. Ghost isn't going to be a penalty killer. And his game is getting to the puck first and keeping possession. If the other team doesn't have the puck, he's not defending a bigger guy in the crease. If he gets to the puck first in a corner, he's not battling a bigger guy for it.

You're kidding right? You do know that every young player MUST add muscle to play in the NHL. And if your Ferrari can't handle a couple sandbags, you have bigger problems. Muscle adds strength, from strength comes power, from power comes acceleration. All of the fastest players in the league have added muscle when entering the NHL.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You're kidding right? You do know that every young player MUST add muscle to play in the NHL. And if your Ferrari can't handle a couple sandbags, you have bigger problems. Muscle adds strength, from strength comes power, from power comes acceleration. All of the fastest players in the league have added muscle when entering the NHL.

Where did I say Ghost shouldn't add any muscle?

I acknowledged he needs to get stronger.

It's just that 20 lbs. is a lot of weight, and I'm not sure how you add 20 lbs. of "pure muscle" on 170 lbs. in just 6 months.

There have been plenty of cases where guys add a bunch of weight to "bulk up" and get stronger, and end up slower and less effective. Let's not act like it's never happened and that there's no chance it could slow Ghost down a bit.

I'm not jumping off a bridge over it, but 20 lbs. simply struck me as a lot of weight and sent my Spidey sense off a bit.

I reserve the right to retain a bit of skepticism until I see him play. I understand I'm the only one who apparently was a tad alarmed by the amount of weight.

 

[OrangeAndBlackMetal]

You're allowed to have your doubts, but "inevitably gets manhandled in his own zone" is a bit beyond "having your doubts". That's being a bit sensational, ie, melodramatic. There's certainly no reason to believe that to be inevitable...

Soneones a bit melodramatic

 

[Alex91]

Provorov haters are guan love that give away lol

 

[FLYguy3911]

Provorov with a brutal turnover that leads to the GWG in OT for Calgary.

 

[BernieParent]

I had a bad thought today. The war room from Flight Plan came back to me and all the positives about Morin seemed like they could be referring to Crouse.

Patterson thinks Morin "knows his game" better than Nurse, seemingly saying that Morin can see his ultimate NHL role better than Nurse. He also talked about Morin's upside over Mueller's "if he hits." "You're reaching, but he's a 6'8 guy. Where do you find these guys?" ... "I think Morin has more meanness. He will whack you with his ****ing stick and give you that stuff." Patterson was high on Morin and went to bat for him several different times. "I don't know if he'll hit it, but he's got the most upside."

It still irks me that the Flyers seemed to have Morin at #6 on their list. It was a good (so far, at least) pick with the 11th overall selection -- though I remain guarded on him -- but I would have been apoplectic had the Flyers chosen him with the 7th pick (ie, this year's) ahead of Nurse or Ristolainen.

Likewise, I'd be okay with Crouse around 11th, but to use the 7th overall on him would be swinging for a single, particularly if the scouts get enamoured with his size and the nastiness he displayed with his stick late this season.

 

[Stizzle]

I had a bad thought today. The war room from Flight Plan came back to me and all the positives about Morin seemed like they could be referring to Crouse.



It still irks me that the Flyers seemed to have Morin at #6 on their list. It was a good (so far, at least) pick with the 11th overall selection -- though I remain guarded on him -- but I would have been apoplectic had the Flyers chosen him with the 7th pick (ie, this year's) ahead of Nurse or Ristolainen.

Likewise, I'd be okay with Crouse around 11th, but to use the 7th overall on him would be swinging for a single, particularly if the scouts get enamoured with his size and the nastiness he displayed with his stick late this season.

Crouse doesn't have Morins upside. Big factor. The last two 1st round picks were upside picks.

 

[SchennSational1022*]

What exactly makes nurse a better prospect than Morin? Both huge, mean, great defensively, and both are elite skaters. Both have question marks regarding offensive upside, but I see both being 25-30 point players. There's really nothing that makes Nurse better IMO.

 

[Jtown]

What exactly makes nurse a better prospect than Morin? Both huge, mean, great defensively, and both are elite skaters. Both have question marks regarding offensive upside, but I see both being 25-30 point players. There's really nothing that makes Nurse better IMO.

nurse is a guy that can physically seperate speedy forwards from the puck in the middle of the ice or along the boards. Morin is a guy who likes to poke check and when he misses he can get beat. He has a hard time staying in front of his man when challenged off the rush. He has gotten better at it but it is still a liability. Nurse is also a much better puck handler and is more comfortable with the puck on his stick.

Nurse has no shot, its something he has needed to work on but it still hasn't gotten better. Morin has him beat in that department.

 

[HighOFFHockey]

Where did I say Ghost shouldn't add any muscle?

I acknowledged he needs to get stronger.

It's just that 20 lbs. is a lot of weight, and I'm not sure how you add 20 lbs. of "pure muscle" on 170 lbs. in just 6 months.

There have been plenty of cases where guys add a bunch of weight to "bulk up" and get stronger, and end up slower and less effective. Let's not act like it's never happened and that there's no chance it could slow Ghost down a bit.

I'm not jumping off a bridge over it, but 20 lbs. simply struck me as a lot of weight and sent my Spidey sense off a bit.

I reserve the right to retain a bit of skepticism until I see him play. I understand I'm the only one who apparently was a tad alarmed by the amount of weight.

I added 9lbs of muscle over the past 3 months with diet and exercise and I'm not even training for anything. In that time, I've gotten faster, stronger, and more athletic. I'm 5'7 and 27. A guy with 4 inches on me and a proper regiment + diet should have no problem putting on that kind of weight. At 20 he should have no problem adding weight. He also MUST add that type of weight, how many defense man are in the NHL and weigh in below 180lbs?

It is not a good thing to be 5'11 and 160 at the NHL level.
Erik Karlsson was a rookie weighing just over 160, now he's just over 180 and still incredibly fast. The amount of weight added is relative to the amount of strength gained. I wouldn't be surprised if hes faster with better lateral movement.

Brian Campbell 5'10/190
Ducan Keith 6'1/192 lbs
Sydney Crosby 5'11/200 lbs
Mason Raymond 6'0/185 lbs
Michael Grabner 6'1/202 lbs
Matt Duchene 5'11/200 lbs

Those are some of the fastest skaters in the league. See a pattern here? (end of argument)

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I had a bad thought today. The war room from Flight Plan came back to me and all the positives about Morin seemed like they could be referring to Crouse.



It still irks me that the Flyers seemed to have Morin at #6 on their list. It was a good (so far, at least) pick with the 11th overall selection -- though I remain guarded on him -- but I would have been apoplectic had the Flyers chosen him with the 7th pick (ie, this year's) ahead of Nurse or Ristolainen.

Likewise, I'd be okay with Crouse around 11th, but to use the 7th overall on him would be swinging for a single, particularly if the scouts get enamoured with his size and the nastiness he displayed with his stick late this season.

Good post. I also have repeatedly thought of the scouts talking about Morin in Flight Plan and how they are probably doing the exact same with Crouse.

To take it a step further, the Flyers were completely in love with Landeskog & tried desperately to trade up for him, & he also is fairly analogous to Crouse.

As for Morin, I'll never forget the scouts ranking him above Monahan, to which Homer even replied, "I think you're cracking under the pressure."

Regarding Nurse v Morin, let's just say Nurse was Canada's best defenseman at the WJC, & Morin was a 7th defenseman spare part.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Morin is better in the offensive zone IMO. Nurse is better in transition. Nurse has quicker feet. Nurse is a big guy, but Morin makes him look like a child. He's much bigger and takes up more space. He's also a lot stronger right now. Nurse can get the better of guys in the OHL, but at the World Juniors and his limited time in the NHL, he wasn't moving guys. He's a lean guy, that you wonder if he adds weight, if that will impact his mobility which is excellence currently.

 

[Hockeypete49]

Crouse, no Zacha, no I mean Connor, no I think I really want Provorov, no Crouse again, but what about Barzal, maybe Werenski?

lol I dont care who we pick. I think its going to be awesome to have whoever we get, I think me personally I really want Crouse because I can just see him playing on Giroux or Couturiers wing in October and that is ****ing awesome!

He could be a monster foe sure. But yes we are going to get a very good player"s".

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Honestly, I'm really down to Barzal and Zacha. I'm still very unsure of Crouse and Provorov not having a very good playoffs is kinda meh.