The Armchair GM Thread - Part XLVII
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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Agreed but that's the nature of hockey. Gillis went after Ballard, Hamhuis and then last year Garrison. Two of the three worked out great and one was a stinker. That's about all you can ask for.
Are you expecting Mike Komisarek and Colby Armstrong to turn back into good players, too? Same age, same career arc. Should we sign them because the coach was the root of their problems, too? Maybe we should give Marc Chouinard another chance, as surely Vigneault was also the reason he was garbage ....
Ballard was given an extended run in the lineup for 20-40 games at the start of each of his 3 seasons here. In the lineup every night, plenty of opportunity to build confidence. He continued to be a big pile of suck. Black hole offensively who ran around like a chicken with its head cut off in his own zone. I don't know who anyone who watched this guy play 150+ games here could think he's actually a good player. He just isn't.
He'll probably sign with a weak team and play regularly on a 3rd pairing somewhere, and score 12-15 points in 16 minutes of icetime with a lousy Corsi rating. Big whoop.
I didn't mind it at the time, because there were no guarantees that Hamhuis was going to sign, and if they don't make that trade, and swing and miss in UFA, the defence corps would have been disastrous.
At the same time, they did not evaluate Grabner well and badly overpaid by including him.
ZKass The Bass
Registered User
Addison Rae
Registered User
Gillis by buying Ballard out is admitting his mistake. I'd rather a GM do that for the better of the hockey team.
It was obviously a bad trade, and we've known that for years. Seemed to make sense at the time, as Ballard had been a good player who'd only had one poor season at that point, but then his game went completely south. It happens.
The real mistake was not unloading Ballard in 2011 when he still had a bit of value and we could maybe have still got back a mid-round pick for him. Instead we let a mistake fester and waste a pile of cap space while better players (Ehrhoff, Salo, Rome) were let go.
Yossarian54
Registered User
Yep.
I think quite a few GMs with decent cap situations are simply going to out-wait those who are in a bit of a pickle (unfortunately us included). There are a fair number of reclamation project players who may be traded/bought out. A team that can fit Ballard at 4.2 is probably not a contender, nor is he going to be a real difference maker. What matter is it to them if they miss out on him? Why not keep the pick, and have a good chance at getting him for free, on a cheaper contract when he is bought out. Or make the waiver claim, and get him for free on the current deal.
Sucks for us, but that's what i'd do if I was running NYI or whatever. Stand pat and wait for an extra ~10 decent but overpaid players to hit UFA.
That's sounding very similar to the Luongo situation now too. How does Gillis keep his job? Maybe both the coach and the GM should have been replaced? It's not just the hockey mistake, but now it's costing the owner is his pocketbook too. How is that owner going to react to Gillis asking for the cash to buy-out Luongo, if it comes to that? Can you imagine that converstation? "Yes, [Mr. Aquilini] I know he can still play, but I need 27 million, so he can go and sign a contract that will pay him similar money on another team."
Even in hindsight the trade isn't that bad.
4th line winger, waiver fodder and a 1st for Ballard and a 4th line winger.
Grabner breaking out hurts, but he's still basically at best a 40 point winger.
Fully agreed on the "real mistake" being not moving him, especially since it ended up costing Ehrhoff and basically cost us servicable cap space for the last 2 seasons.
Vankiller Whale
Fire Benning
Not that I disagree with your general premise, but how is Grabner "at best" a 40 point winger when he's already had a 34-goal, 52 point season?
y2kcanucks
Le Sex God
Is Jimmy Carson a guy you would expect would have been a consistent 50 goal scorer just because he did it once?
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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the optics depend on what you want to see, i guess.
like you (and i think the vast majority of people at the time), i saw it as a 4th line winger, a potential tweener who wasn't going to make the team and would have been waived, and a very late first rounder in a draft where the player they wanted was already taken (allegedly tinordi?)
but yeah, you could certainly look at the asset management and see it as two firsts and a second (i.e., what we gave up for bernier)
or you could weigh the cap hits and see it as trading two cheap mistakes and a useful piece (the howden pick) for an expensive one
or you could go crazy with hindsight and see it as a 30 goal scorer, an B+ prospect, and a useful fourth liner who was solid and contributed to a stanley cup finalist
but like others upthread, i think the real mistake wasn't the trade itself; it was holding onto ballard for so long. look, whether we want to say that ballard sucks or that AV had some kind of blood feud with him, or perhaps more reasonably that he didn't click with AV and had his confidence ruined by the experience, he should have been gone in the summer of 2011. not an "OMG FIRE MG" mistake, nor an "FML WE COULDA KEPT HOFF AND PAID HIM FOR THE NEXT 40 MILLION YEARS" mistake, imo, but not the wisest decision.
and it's beside the point here, but an inhumane one decision for ballard too.
You're right, "at best" is poor wording.
What do we think Mason Raymond is? I'm going to say a 40 point tweener, even though he has a 25 goal 50+ point season on his resume.
The interesting thing is that those seasons were 3 and 4 years ago.
Grabs might score 30 again, but I'm going to say his 50 point season is the high water mark.
His most recent seasons have him in the 32-39 point range. Two seasons (albeit one lockout shortened one) is a better sample than a "career season" IMO.
Vankiller Whale
Fire Benning
StrictlyCommercial
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The fact that Ballard was immediately overtaken by a Junior age defenseman on the depth chart IN THE FREAKING PLAYOFFS (even if said defenseman has Orr in his name) tells you all you need to know about his place on this team moving forward.
Because every GM makes mistakes and because the team has won their division 5 times in a row?
Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
- Mar 6, 2010
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AV wanted to win. He played the lineup that gave him the best chance to win. I doubt that his personal feelings for Ballard entered into it. And there really is no evidence that on a personal basis he didn't like Ballard.
wetcoastwhale
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If Peverly is available in trade (which is the word on the street), I think he would be an excellent player for 3rd line C role. He had a rough year, which is why he is available, but I think he would be worth the risk.
He has offensive upside (nearly PPG in Atlanta), can win faceoffs and knows where his own zone is, would probably be utilized in a Callahan-type role by Torts.
Whether Boston deals with us is a completely different question.
He has offensive upside (nearly PPG in Atlanta), can win faceoffs and knows where his own zone is, would probably be utilized in a Callahan-type role by Torts.
Whether Boston deals with us is a completely different question.
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