The almost 3/4 of the season Hart talk.

Discussion in 'National Hockey League Talk' started by daver, Feb 14, 2020 at 5:31 AM.

  1. SlickHands

    SlickHands Registered User

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    Ovie's years winning the Hart he finished 1, 2, and 3 in scoring and won the Richard each year. You simply don't win the Hart unless you're top 5 in scoring (or dominating a non-forward position). Matthews would need to win the Richard AND close the gap between him and the top 3. I don't see it happening.

    For me, Draisaitl is eliminated by the McDavid factor. There's still an intense "you're only doing it because of McDavid" bias, and you can't give it to McDavid when he's being outscored by a teammate. Pastrnak has a chance, but Marchand and Bergeron are both having strong years. The two guys impressing me the most are Panarin and MacKinnon. Their spots in the scoring race and the strength of their stats relative to their teammates is just too hard to ignore.
     
  2. LeafsNation75

    LeafsNation75 Registered User

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    I know you said point totals are also a factor. However if they had someone like Panarin as a finalist despite the Rangers not making the playoffs and yes I know his point totals right now is more than Matthews since they are 76 points vs 69 points. If Matthews gets at least 55 goals or more that wouldn't make him a finalist from a non playoff team if Toronto missed? I know that either one would not win the Hart, I'm just speculating on who would be a more deserving finalist from a non playoff team.
     
  3. WingsMJN2965

    WingsMJN2965 Registered User

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    Saddened to see Justin Abdelkader fell out of the conversation.
     
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  4. agreen36

    agreen36 Boo

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    Okay I see so you would be mad if a there was a non-playoff finalist. That's fair.

    So what scenario would Matthews get a nomination? Colorado, Boston and Edmonton are most likely making the playoffs. So who of MacK/Drai/Pasta would he be nominated over?
     
  5. LeafsNation75

    LeafsNation75 Registered User

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    No I wouldn't be mad. I just wonder besides their point total what reason would Panarin have to be a finalist over Matthews, if Toronto missed the playoffs? That's assuming the voters nominate anyone from a team who misses the playoffs.
     
  6. agreen36

    agreen36 Boo

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    The rationale would likely be that he would have a higher point total and has a worse team with worse players around him therefore making his point total more impressive
     
  7. a mangy Meowth

    a mangy Meowth NOTENOUGHBREWER fan

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    He certainly would not deserve votes over MacKinnon, Draisaitl, Pastrnak, Panarin, Eichel, John Carlson, and I'd also vote for Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck before him. I could probably think of a few more as well. You can't play half a starter's season and be MVP of the league, that's just not how it works.
     
  8. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

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    Why should Mackinnon be getting this much consideration for Hart if hes playing with such an elite teammate. Hes obviously getting a major boost
     
  9. Aceboogie

    Aceboogie Registered User

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    Matthews might not even be the best player on his team

    Second coming of Taylor Hall. Great player, but big let down considering the hype he had at the draft
     
  10. LeafsNation75

    LeafsNation75 Registered User

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    Speaking as a Leafs fan I can confidently say Matthews is the best player on their team.
     
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  11. CantLoseWithMatthews

    CantLoseWithMatthews Registered User

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    Matthews may be the 2nd coming of Hall in the sense that he could win the Hart trophy, but that's about it
     
  12. LeafsNation75

    LeafsNation75 Registered User

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    Unlike Hall at least Matthews has had two 40 goal seasons.

    Yes I know Hall had 39 goals when he won the Hart Trophy in 2017, however technically it's still not 40 goals and that's still the only season he's had at least 30 goals.
     
  13. Cyclones Rock

    Cyclones Rock Registered User

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    I said he wouldn't win and wouldn't deserve to. Voting for Vasilevskiy or Hellebucyk over him is laughable. If you toss out his first NHL game when he gave up 7 goals, his GAA is 1.98 and save percentage is .935. The other two don't even belong in the conversation of who has been most valuable to his team.
     
  14. CaptainCally

    CaptainCally Registered User

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    Don't forget about Ryan Strome! LMAO.
     
  15. PALE PWNR

    PALE PWNR Registered User

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    He's been doing great, .941 SV% and a 1.65 GAA at home this season. 14-2-2 at home. We finally have a goalie.
     
  16. JetsWillFly4Ever

    JetsWillFly4Ever Registered User

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    I don't see any realistic path for Matthews to the Hart tbh.

    He'd have to outscore and outpoint OV/Pasta. Massively out goal score Drai/Panarin, and then have Panarin miss the playoffs, then there's still Mackinnon who I have no idea how Matthews gets ahead of barring an injury to Nate or a massive hot streak by Matthews.

    He's 11 points behind Nate, 12 behind Pasta, and 21 behind Drai. I just don't see it.
     
  17. Satire

    Satire Registered User

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    MacK is current frontrunner for sure. McDavid was right up there with him before he went down to injury. So as I see it 1 of 3 things happens.

    1) Oilers don't make playoffs and it goes to MacK.
    2) Oilers make playoffs because they stayed afloat during this stretch thanks to the efforts of Drai. Drai wins.
    3) Oilers make playoffs because McDavid comes back and they go on a tear. McDavid wins it

    I don't think anyone else is too close to touching any of those 3 right now. There are some who could make a huge argument down the last quarter stretch here.
     
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  18. KoozNetsOff 92

    KoozNetsOff 92 Hala Madrid

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    Not really. There have been 14 hart winners post lockout. 1 was obviously Hall, 1 was a goalie. So let's look at the other 12 skaters and you'll see a common theme.

    Average pt finish: 1.42 (9/12 finished 1st, all 12 finished top 3). Hall finished 6th.

    Average seed in conference: 3.25 (7/12 finished top 3, all 12 finished top 5). Devils finished 8th.

    The 4 times the ross winner didn't win the Hart (excluding the Price year)

    09: OV was 2nd in pts (3pts behind Malkin). But was 1st in PPG, goals and GPG. Only 50 goal scorer in the league, won the rocket by 10 goals.

    11: Perry was 3rd in pts (6pts behind D Sedin). But was 1st in goals and GPG, only 50 goal scorer in the league, won rocket over peak Stamkos.

    13: OV was 3rd in pts (4pts behind MSL & 1 behind Stamkos, both who missed the playoffs). But was 1st in goals and GPG, only 30 goal scorer in the league.

    18: Hall was 6th in pts (15pts behind McDavid, 9 behind Giroux highest scoring playoff player). 9th in goals, 7th in GPG, 7th in PPG.

    There's no "narrative" to the Hart. Make the playoffs and finish 1st in pts and you win, unless someone is close enough in pts and gets a big rocket win. The Hall win was clearly an anomaly and the numbers are right there to prove it.
     
  19. McCanovin

    McCanovin 1% is the new 11.5%

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    93 points is still better than 73 points
     
  20. LeafsNation75

    LeafsNation75 Registered User

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    Matthews is well on his way to over 90 points this season since he's on pace for at least 100. So you won't be able to make comments like that anymore.
     
  21. McCanovin

    McCanovin 1% is the new 11.5%

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    He's on pace for 97. Since this is Matthews we are talking. On pace is not a sure thing with his injury history
     
  22. a mangy Meowth

    a mangy Meowth NOTENOUGHBREWER fan

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    Lol they sustained very good stats over far more games. Sorry boss you're being a homer. Tampa sucked ass at the start when Vasilevskiy was doing poorly. Now look where they are. You guys have a Norris level D in Jones and a guy who is like barely a step down in Werenski. And then Savard. And Murray. etc. etc. CBJ defense is top 10ish imo, could be border top 5 just because Jones is such a freaking monster. Winnipeg's defense is kind of a joke this season if you haven't noticed, as well. Elvis is ****ing awesome, I watched him nearly shut my team's elite elite offense out of the game entirely, so I hope you won't take this as me being a hater.
     
  23. LeafsNation75

    LeafsNation75 Registered User

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    He did play all 82 games in his rookie season and so far he's played every game this season.
     
  24. LudwigVonKarlsson

    LudwigVonKarlsson #MelnykOut

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    Who did Taylor Hall have on his team when he won?
     
  25. Crabapple

    Crabapple Registered User

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    This is it folks. #3 is the least likely IMO
     

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