Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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No.But assuming his career ends today, do you think he deserves it?
No.But assuming his career ends today, do you think he deserves it?
This seems to be a common refrain for all of our players after about 1995.
It's for the best. Gallagher, Price, Weber... they're all banged up. The only guy who I'd have really been okay/happy to see go would be Domi. He's young, never been and he's had a great year. He'd be worthy of inclusion this year.
The ownership, GM, coaches and quality of drafting are all significant contributors to the fortunes of the team. 25 years without a Cup or even a Final appearance is a damn good sign that something is rotten in Denmark.
This team has been living off a reputation of excellence for far too long, while very little excellence has actually been visible.
The ownership, GM, coaches and quality of drafting are all significant contributors to the fortunes of the team. 25 years without a Cup or even a Final appearance is a damn good sign that something is rotten in Denmark.
This team has been living off a reputation of excellence for far too long, while very little excellence has actually been visible.
Ivory tower syndrome
It looked like we actually might've been able to win something despite ourselves but we made a tragic mistake. We hired the wrong GM at the exact wrong time. Then he went and hired the exact wrong coaches and we completely screwed ourselves.The ownership, GM, coaches and quality of drafting are all significant contributors to the fortunes of the team. 25 years without a Cup or even a Final appearance is a damn good sign that something is rotten in Denmark.
This team has been living off a reputation of excellence for far too long, while very little excellence has actually been visible.
Suspended.Will Price be suspended like Ovi for not going?
It's also false to say the team went down as soon as Subban left. The team crashed with him in 2016 when Price got hurt. That's a big reason why he got traded to begin with. Dumb thing to do but hey, this is MB.2012 and 2016 were not good seasons for Subban. But that’s besides the point. We don’t know how the club will handle players who haven’t won a cup because it hasn’t happened yet. And it seems like this team could be waiting awhile before we ever do. Depending on how long it goes on for, they’ll either have to change how to evaluate players or not consider them at all. If they do start including players who haven’t won a cup, a goalie with 400+ wins with the team will be at the top of the list.
It's also false to say the team went down as soon as Subban left. The team crashed with him in 2016 when Price got hurt. That's a big reason why he got traded to begin with. Dumb thing to do but hey, this is MB.
2011-2017 cummulatively he's got the best save percentage in the league (350 game minimium)
In that stretch he's got three Vezina nominees plus a 5th place finish to go along with to top ten Hart finishes plus the awards he actually won. Yes, he was the best goalie in hockey.
In 2011 he's 7th in Hart voting, 5th in Vezina and plays 72 games and that's behind a bad team. The following season he's behind one of the worst teams in the league and still puts up good numbers. 2013 he was a Vezina contender until the last ten games of a shortened season. 2014 through 17 he's fantastic.
You say he's terrible in 2015-16? What the hell are you talking about? He was sitting at .934 and on his way to another dominating season. Getting hurt doesn't count against him as a terrible year. And in 2017 he's another Vezina nominee.
From 2011 to 2017 despite playing behind some pretty bad teams he's got the best stats in hockey. To go along with that he's go three Vezina nominations, another season where he places 5th, two top ten Hart seasons, A Hart, Pearson and Vezina trophy. And this is while missing most of the 2015-16 season.
He hasn't got a HOF resume yet, but if he puts up a few more good years he's a probable HOFer. Also worth noting that since Weber's return he's sitting at something like .920 save percentage.
We'll see on his career but I'd bet on him getting in. Koivu has no chance so I don't think he belongs in the conversation. The only other guy would be Markov. He had no individual awards, no Norris nods, no all-star selections. He was very good for a long period of time but to me he's not dominant enough to warrant jersey retirement let alone the HOF.
Bottom line is if Price doesn't make the HOF then it's going to be a while before I think we should be looking at retiring anyone's number.
It's also false to say the team went down as soon as Subban left. The team crashed with him in 2016 when Price got hurt. That's a big reason why he got traded to begin with. Dumb thing to do but hey, this is MB.
Sorry but no. Cumulatively from 2011 to 2017 he has the best save percentage in the league. This whole "it was only one season" crap doesn't fly. In 2011 he finished 7th in Hart voting for Pete's sake.Yeah, I fudged my numbers on 2015-2016 somehow, still he's been mostly good, followed by bad, he had a 2 year stretch where we he the best, that's it imo.
What in the world are you talking about?He had a bad season like most of the team. He was injured the second week of March. Saying he was the reason the team crashed isn’t even close to the truth. That team started a free fall in December 2015.
That team was significantly worse than the one in 2016In 2012 both Price and Subban were there, team finished last. That invalids your point...
Assume two populations:
- A : people superelite at Thing with a population of n = nA
- B : people elite at Thing with a population of n = nB
Such that A and B are mutually exclusive. And such that nB >10*nA. The skill level (higher the better) at Thing of individuals in each population follows a normal distribution with the following properties :
- A : mean of mA, standard deviation of sA
- B : mean of mB, standard deviation of sB
Such that mA > mB + 2*sB and such that sA < sB.
Is finishing 5th amongst a population A (nA individuals) less impressive than finishing 10th amongst a population A+B (over 10*nA individuals) ?
The ownership, GM, coaches and quality of drafting are all significant contributors to the fortunes of the team. 25 years without a Cup or even a Final appearance is a damn good sign that something is rotten in Denmark.
This team has been living off a reputation of excellence for far too long, while very little excellence has actually been visible.
It reminds me of the whole '67 thing the Leafs did for years upon years. It became a huge joke.The ‘93 cup win was an amazing one with all OT wins and stories, but I feel like puking when our organization markets it every year like it happened yesterday. Its backwards. This team wants to promote things that happened decades ago instead of promote the future. I like to dream Molson whoever who owns the team in the future starts to see the franchise start taking a hit pocket wise if this goes on but sadly I don’t see that happening.
Sorry but no. Cumulatively from 2011 to 2017 he has the best save percentage in the league. This whole "it was only one season" crap doesn't fly. In 2011 he finished 7th in Hart voting for Pete's sake.
Most goalies don't even start their careers until their mid 20s. Price is 31 and already is at 300 wins, four top five Vezina finishes, two top 10 Hart seasons.... not to mention the awards he's actually won. That's a HOF trajectory.
Similar to Subban, he hasn't done enough for a HOF birth yet, but he's certainly on pace.
What in the world are you talking about?
In 2014 we were a 100 point team. In 2015 we were 110 and Price was 44-16 with a .933 save percentage. Price was 10-2 with a .934 save percentage when he went down. That's not a small sample size. And after he went down - despite the hot start - we finished with 82 points and went from the best save percentage in the league to one of the worst.... yeah, must be a coincidence.
After Price went down we crashed and burned and PK (unfairly) took the blame.
That team was significantly worse than the one in 2016
And I'm not getting into a Price debate with somebody who's still upset that we got rid of Halak ten years later...
Ah sorry.I should’ve been more clear. I was talking about Subban.
Ah sorry.
Well to be fair to Subban he started that season amazingly well. 2016 looked like it was going to be the year we were going to make a serious run. We'd had three straight 100 point seasons (2013 was shortened but we were pacing for it) and Price was coming off that insane year. Things sure looked like they were heading the right way - and in that case it wasn't just an October cup - we were legitimately continuing a trend that had been happening in previous seasons.
Anyways, I'd be willling to bet that if Price doesn't get hurt that year Subban would've had another monster season. When we started to lose though he really got beat up on. And on these very boards people went on and on about 'how he's supposed to be a superstar why can't he elevate the team to win?' It was pretty unfair in my view.
I never saw Max as a problem. The real problem for me was that we needed to get him a center and never did. Max was a great scorer but he's not good enough of a scorer to lead any team to a cup and MT insisted on putting him with DD. That absolutely killed us that year as well.Obviously when you lose an elite goalie for essentially the entire year, your team is going to suffer. After the 15/16 season I did believe it was because of Price’s injury that we missed the playoffs and collapsed. But then the next season happened. It was almost a clone of the previous with Price healthy. We start off extremely hot and start to fall off in December again. The difference that year was we finally fired Therrien and salvaged the season. If I was to pin what the true problem was with those teams, I’d say it was the leadership group, management and Therrien. I don’t care how many goals Pacioretty scored either, he was also a problem the moment he was named captain in my opinion.
I never saw Max as a problem. The real problem for me was that we needed to get him a center and never did. Max was a great scorer but he's not good enough of a scorer to lead any team to a cup and MT insisted on putting him with DD. That absolutely killed us that year as well.
Subban made for a nice little scapegoat.
ANY player would benefit from a better center.Pacioretty is not a guy who would benefit from a better center, especially considering DD just fed him the puck and was relatively good at it. I think this is a mistake to assume.
Because our coach made nonsensical decisions. When he finally put Galchenyuk (who was the only guy scoring for us all year) at first line center he became a top five scorer in the league and looked ridiculous. They needed to deflect the blame to somebody else.Subban made for a nice scapegoat? How?
Yes, something was wrong with the room. His name was Michel Therrien. It's like this wherever he goes.What's clear is something was wrong with the room, and considering the look of this year it was clear that Maxpac wasn't contributing positively in any way.
I never saw Max as a problem. The real problem for me was that we needed to get him a center and never did. Max was a great scorer but he's not good enough of a scorer to lead any team to a cup and MT insisted on putting him with DD. That absolutely killed us that year as well.
Subban made for a nice little scapegoat.
ANY player would benefit from a better center.
Because our coach made nonsensical decisions. When he finally put Galchenyuk (who was the only guy scoring for us all year) at first line center he became a top five scorer in the league and looked ridiculous. They needed to deflect the blame to somebody else.
Yes, something was wrong with the room. His name was Michel Therrien. It's like this wherever he goes.
ANY player would benefit from a better center.
Because our coach made nonsensical decisions. When he finally put Galchenyuk (who was the only guy scoring for us all year) at first line center he became a top five scorer in the league and looked ridiculous. They needed to deflect the blame to somebody else.
Yes, something was wrong with the room. His name was Michel Therrien. It's like this wherever he goes.