The All Purpose "Jack Johnson Sucks" Thread

[KIRK]

One of the most disturbing facts is that there's zero evidence that Sullivan sees Johnson as a problem. The average time on ice for Pens' D season-to-date:

Letang - 26:15
Dumoulin - 21:02
Johnson - 18:56
Maatta - 18:47
Riikola - 16:55
Petterson - 16:53
Oleksiak - 15:52

So yeah, JJ is getting top-4 minutes. There's no effort being made to shelter him at all.

Jack Johnson's impact on Geno and now Sid is the biggest issue.

As I noted in another thread, until Geno's injury, Sully has been running Letang with Sid for 60% of Sid's 5 on 5 shifts. From there, he's taken a 'protect as best I can' approach.

SO, Geno has played 38% of his 5 on 5 minutes with Jack Johnson (another 35% with Maatta), and Letang has been used more with the bottom six than with Geno. I think the idea is Geno protects against the Johnson weak link, and Letang protects against the bottom six's inability to move the puck.

The impact on Geno's game speaks for itself.

BUT, before some genius here says 'well, Geno has been playing badly all year', in the 4 games since the Ottawa game with Geno out, Sid has 1 ES assist and is a -5. Why? Because he's inherited a lot of Geno's 'you're stuck with Jack Johnson' minutes.

The guy is a team killer. He's the team's biggest problem and I'd argue clear cut primary cause of the team's other player issues.

 

[KIRK]

In fairness, our d blows without Schultz

It's going to blow with him. Especially when Johnson is his partner when he returns.

 

[Peat]

In fairness, our d blows without Schultz

Not a good defence though as Schultz or no Schultz, there's a bunch of other dmen available who've been getting better results.

The bit where I do think Schultz is relevant though is that maybe - not at all being over optimistic - he'd suck a bit less if he was on his natural side.

The problem is that even if that is true, it's a bit of a and? so? The Pens are overflowing with LHD you're comfortable with putting on a bottom line. Rutherford's made that something of a strength of ours this season. Even if he was doing well there'd be a case for moving on.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Not a good defence though as Schultz or no Schultz, there's a bunch of other dmen available who've been getting better results.

The bit where I do think Schultz is relevant though is that maybe - not at all being over optimistic - he'd suck a bit less if he was on his natural side.

The problem is that even if that is true, it's a bit of a and? so? The Pens are overflowing with LHD you're comfortable with putting on a bottom line. Rutherford's made that something of a strength of ours this season. Even if he was doing well there'd be a case for moving on.

His natural side at this point is on his backside ... in the pressbox.

 

[MrBrightside]

It isn't necessarily a bad defense if Johnson were replaced with a reasonable player. You can certainly win with a D corps of:

Letang/Dumoulin
Schultz/XXXX
Maatta/Pettersson/Riikola

If XXXX was a legitimate 2nd or even 3rd pairing defenseman.

 

[Icarium]

I expected JJ to be an adventure in his own zone but I didn't expect him to be so offensively inept that he makes me miss Orpik sometimes. His windup for a shot is so long and he either shoots along the ice, making it ridiculously easy for any NHL goalie to save it or misses by a mile. I bet even Dumo's shot scares goalies more. And his passing is pretty bad too. How he had several 35+ points seasons I will never know.

 

[Captain Hook]

I think it was last game where someone tried to setup Johnson for a one-timer. The passer made sure it was as soft and accurate a pass as can be and JJ still completely whiffed on it.

I did expect JJ to be an adventure but not this bad. I wanted to believe that he may be more productive on a higher scoring team like the Pens as opposed to more defensive teams like Columbus and LA but that hasn't happened. He's always been known as a low IQ player but he used to have enough physical talent that you'd put up with the questionable decision making. Now it just doesn't seem worth it and we're stuck with him for another 4+ years unless JR can Houdini his way out of this deal.

 

[Shady Machine]

I think it was last game where someone tried to setup Johnson for a one-timer. The passer made sure it was as soft and accurate a pass as can be and JJ still completely whiffed on it.

I did expect JJ to be an adventure but not this bad. I wanted to believe that he may be more productive on a higher scoring team like the Pens as opposed to more defensive teams like Columbus and LA but that hasn't happened. He's always been known as a low IQ player but he used to have enough physical talent that you'd put up with the questionable decision making. Now it just doesn't seem worth it and we're stuck with him for another 4+ years unless JR can Houdini his way out of this deal.

Yup his pathetic lack of offense is the most disturbing thing. Other than the PK and ramming players into his own goalie, he's pretty useless.

 

[Shady Machine]

It's going to blow with him. Especially when Johnson is his partner when he returns.

Completely agree. That isn't me excusing that ice time distribution but that there really isn't anyone I want to be giving 19 minutes a night to on that list after Letang and Dumo.

 

[Gurglesons]

Completely agree. That isn't me excusing that ice time distribution but that there really isn't anyone I want to be giving 19 minutes a night to on that list after Letang and Dumo.

Pettersson has looked impressive for a 22 year old being basically told “good luck” because Maatta and JJ can’t cut it.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Chiarelli's name is on the Cup too...does that make him a good GM?

Rutherford did a lot of good stuff the first couple of years here. The last two years, not so much.

The problem with people is that they think admitting that, means the back 2 back cups suddenly are tarnished.

Shero won us a cup too, then he hitched his wagon FO LYFE with Bylstard.

Sometimes Gm's do good and then do a lot of bad. JR has had a f*** load of warts that should not be ignored, just like people won't ignore the good he did with the back 2 backs. But man the Johnson signing is trash and he should have upgraded on Maatta by now as well.

 

[ChaosAgent]

The problem with people is that they think admitting that, means the back 2 back cups suddenly are tarnished.

Shero won us a cup too, then he hitched his wagon FO LYFE with Bylstard.

Sometimes Gm's do good and then do a lot of bad. JR has had a **** load of warts that should not be ignored, just like people won't ignore the good he did with the back 2 backs. But man the Johnson signing is trash and he should have upgraded on Maatta by now as well.

+1. It's not a strawman to say that many fans want us to keep together the GM, coach and as much of the B2B squads as possible until they become unplayable ala Kunitz. But you can acknowledge the 2015-2017 achievements and also think we need a better way forward.

DB & Shero's cup bought them 5 years. If we extend JR & Sully the same courtesy, we won't hit the reset button until Sid & Letang are 35 and Geno is 36. At that point, Sid & Letang will be well into their decline and Geno will be playing for Magnitogorsk again. To me, when there are those 3 players there is hope but we need to turn over a lot of the roster between now and next October. If JR isn't willing to do that, we need to find someone who will.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

After this season, it's 2yrs since the back 2 back and Crosby is 32 and Malkin is going on 33-34...then it's 3yrs...then it's 4yrs...

 

[Honour Over Glory]

JJ is ass, but the real shake-up should have been firing Recchi because as much as that player personnel needs a slap upside the head, so does the entire coaching staff.

 

[MrBrightside]

JJ is ass, but the real shake-up should have been firing Recchi because as much as that player personnel needs a slap upside the head, so does the entire coaching staff.

This. I actually know Recchi a little through some mutual friends and there are few people who have less of the personality and smarts you’d want in a coach. It was and remains a bizarre hire.

That said, I would hope this isn’t the issue - it would suggest that Tocchet was more important than we assumed.

 

[molon labe]

Options 3 and 4 seem most likely.

Either we take on an equally awful defenseman, an albatross of a contract - or we add our 1st. JR was an is still the man who traded Scuderi for Daley - however Scuds was known to us as being awful, not sure he had the same rep around the league. Right now there isn't a team in hockey who doesn't know that Johnson is flat our terrible.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Options 3 and 4 seem most likely.

Either we take on an equally awful defenseman, an albatross of a contract - or we add our 1st. JR was an is still the man who traded Scuderi for Daley - however Scuds was known to us as being awful, not sure he had the same rep around the league. Right now there isn't a team in hockey who doesn't know that Johnson is flat our terrible.

I mean, what is this based on? Jack Johnson today is the same Jack Johnson that has been in the league for the last 5 years. It's the same Jack Johnson that was getting multi year offers from multiple teams. It's the same Jack Johnson that JR gave a 5 year deal to after he had a bad year. Why do you think GMs suddenly think Johnson is terrible despite him being the same player he has always been?

People on this site give GMs way too much credit. Do you really think Rutherford just had a senile moment when giving Johnson that contract, when no one else was offering him anything? Bob McKenzie even said this before Johnson signed anywhere, do you think he was also having a senile moment too:



I really have to emphasize, never underestimate the stupidity of NHL GMs. They're not analytically driven the same way fans are, a majority of GMs are still old school guys who rely on the eye test and love physicality from defensemen.

 

[molon labe]

I mean, what is this based on? Jack Johnson today is the same Jack Johnson that has been in the league for the last 5 years. It's the same Jack Johnson that was getting multi year offers from multiple teams. It's the same Jack Johnson that JR gave a 5 year deal to after he had a bad year. Why do you think GMs suddenly think Johnson is terrible despite him being the same player he has always been?

People on this site give GMs way too much credit. Do you really think Rutherford just had a senile moment when giving Johnson that contract, when no one else was offering him anything?

Reporters and common folk widely considered that the Pens 'lost' Scuderi in the Daley deal as a means of just shaking things up. The only positive remarks I remember seeing were among Pens fans.

I do not see anyone having a thought other than "Bad signing" when/if we deal Johnson.

 

[Jesse]

Yup his pathetic lack of offense is the most disturbing thing. Other than the PK and ramming players into his own goalie, he's pretty useless.

He's the worst penalty-killer on the team.

Marshall: What has led to the Penguins' success on the...

 

[UnrealMachine]

He's the worst penalty-killer on the team.

This is starting to be the case. Whatever smoke & mirrors were elevating his PK stats have since evaporated. He now has the 2nd highest 4on5 GAA/60 among D.

 

[MrBrightside]

I mean, what is this based on? Jack Johnson today is the same Jack Johnson that has been in the league for the last 5 years. It's the same Jack Johnson that was getting multi year offers from multiple teams. It's the same Jack Johnson that JR gave a 5 year deal to after he had a bad year. Why do you think GMs suddenly think Johnson is terrible despite him being the same player he has always been?

People on this site give GMs way too much credit. Do you really think Rutherford just had a senile moment when giving Johnson that contract, when no one else was offering him anything? Bob McKenzie even said this before Johnson signed anywhere, do you think he was also having a senile moment too:



I really have to emphasize, never underestimate the stupidity of NHL GMs. They're not analytically driven the same way fans are, a majority of GMs are still old school guys who rely on the eye test and love physicality from defensemen.

Man do you struggle just to admit that the Johnson signing was bad at the time and looks even worse every day.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Worst signing in Penguins history. Not close either...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Man do you struggle just to admit that the Johnson signing was bad at the time and looks even worse every day.

Amazing contribution, thank you for replying to me with this. If you don't have anything of value to add, why even respond to me?

 

[Will Hunting]

Amazing contribution, thank you for replying to me with this. If you don't have anything of value to add, why even respond to me?

And this is the same amazing contribution, thank you for adding value to this thread. Why even respond like *** when you criticize the same **** on him? Oh yeah, you always have to be the winner here and have the last word.

 

[vikingGoalie]

my only hope here is that GMJR is not one to let a mistake linger on the team for long. I for one was neutral on the signing over the summer, I thought it was not a good idea, but figured that maybe the Pens knew what they were doing and thought they could get something out of him. JJ has done fairly well in the playoffs when the physicality rachets up. I have a feeling we have him until at least the summer, and if he pans out to be just as terrible in the playoffs he's gone then.

But I hope that he's gone by the deadline he literally just sucks at hockey. Though I'd be happy to have him on my beer league team