The All Encompassing JR Thread

[Pancakes]

I'm a little confused about people giving credit to Botterill. I'm sure he had something to do with the good moves JR made in the past, but Botterill also executed a worse move in his tenure as Buffalo than anything JR has done as Penguins GM. That O'reilly trade was horrible and set the Sabres back immeasurably.

So let's not sit here and pine for Botterill and act like things would be better with him when he doesn't exactly have a stellar track record so far in Buffalo.

 

[BladeRunner66]

Didn’t realize you posted it.

Perfect material for those blaming Sullivan.

I get that but not blaming Sullivan for anything isn't right either. Seriously, do you honestly think the team suddenly all sucked because the puzzle didn't work anymore? Sully couldn't work the pieces together, didn't change the system so the puzzle didn't work with different pieces and some players just waited for the shit show we got to end.

JR cans till make good trades or maybe he won't but if Sully can't adapt his sytem against teams that figured us out, he's utterly worthless. Anyway, one of these 2 guys has got to go and while JR can still have a few cards up his sleave, maybe Sully's shelf life is just plain over.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

This summer, and the moves he makes, will go a long way to determining once and for all whether JR "gets" why this team has struggled the past two seasons (particularly this season).

 

[Gurglesons]

I get that but not blaming Sullivan for anything isn't right either. Seriously, do you honestly think the team suddenly all sucked because the puzzle didn't work anymore? Sully couldn't work the pieces together, didn't change the system so the puzzle didn't work with different pieces and some players just waited for the **** show we got to end.

JR cans till make good trades or maybe he won't but if Sully can't adapt his sytem against teams that figured us out, he's utterly worthless. Anyway, one of these 2 guys has got to go and while JR can still have a few cards up his sleave, maybe Sully's shelf life is just plain over.

Not sure how you adapt your system when your GM hands you two grenades in the form of JJ and Gudbranson while tearing away players like Sheary, Hagelin, Daley, and Cole that are all tailor made for the system.

I know, I know. He should’ve just trapped?

That worked out very well for Johnston huh?

 

[BladeRunner66]

Not sure how you adapt your system when your GM hands you two grenades in the form of JJ and Gudbranson while tearing away players like Sheary, Hagelin, Daley, and Cole that are all tailor made for the system.

Thanks for the specific... players, i'll just answer your post using them one by one.

JJ/Contract is too long AND a bit expensive so by the end of it it'll be a cap bear trap that you fall face first into.
GUD/Don't like him, don't dislike either, let's give him more time, one thing is sure, sizewise the guy is a presence, grenade? huh?
Sheary/His balance sucked and he got tossed like a puppet in PO.
Hag/Nice hair but his speed was more straight forward and he couldn't really score anyway.
Daley/Never understood why they let him go away ending up getting... JJ? WTF?
Cole/Never liked the guy, not that he's much overrated but i get the relatively reasonnable contract and again, JJwise it seems we should have kept him but nothing compaired to Daley salarywise (compaired to JJ).

 

[Gurglesons]

Thanks for the specific... players, i'll just answer your post using them one by one.

JJ/Contract is too long AND a bit expensive so by the end of it it'll be a cap bear trap that you fall face first into.
GUD/Don't like him, don't dislike either, let's give him more time, one thing is sure, sizewise the guy is a presence, grenade? huh?
Sheary/His balance sucked and he got tossed like a puppet in PO.
Hag/Nice hair but his speed was more straight forward and he couldn't really score anyway.
Daley/Never understood why they let him go away ending up getting... JJ? WTF?
Cole/Never liked the guy, not that he's much overrated but i get the relatively reasonnable contract and again, JJwise it seems we should have kept him but nothing compaired to Daley salarywise (compaired to JJ).

You’re missing the point. Sullivan plays an aggressive forecheck, quick exits, etc.

Every player JR has added since the 2017 playoffs has been the opposite of that.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Nobody had a problem with... Petts, McCann, Bjug, and Guddy until they lost. They all looked great in the regular season. All the blame is on the coach. He had the pieces. Only adjustments he knows how to make is who is on Sids right wing.

 

[BladeRunner66]

You’re missing the point. Sullivan plays an aggressive forecheck, quick exits, etc.

Every player JR has added since the 2017 playoffs has been the opposite of that.

...and Sully couldn't play chess either/McGuire

When you're handed different pieces you should make lines that suits them better but Sully couldn't.

 

[Gurglesons]

...and Sully couldn't play chess either/McGuire

When you're handed different pieces you should make lines that suits them better but Sully couldn't.

Sure, we all agree on that. The issue is you win two cups doing something. JR strayed away from a formula that won. Sullivan didn’t.

I’d rather lose playing our game than watching Jack Johnson look like a jackass because JR has “learned to trust Sergei Gonchar”. Or Oleksiak get knocked out because JR said something about it to the media.

The hard truth is the coach has little impact on a team and the GM has a huge impact on the team. Sure, Trotz deserves a lot of credit. But, the Isles made some smart minor moves to one of the best offenses in the league last year.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Sure, we all agree on that. The issue is you win two cups doing something. JR strayed away from a formula that won. Sullivan didn’t.

One cup. The 2nd was completely different. They win one cup playing one way and now it's the only way to win anymore. Not to mention it's a copycat league and they barely beat the Caps and Bolts that year. Nothing surefire about it.

 

[BladeRunner66]

Sure, we all agree on that. The issue is you win two cups doing something. JR strayed away from a formula that won. Sullivan didn’t.

I’d rather lose playing our game than watching Jack Johnson look like a jackass because JR has “learned to trust Sergei Gonchar”. Or Oleksiak get knocked out because JR said something about it to the media.

The hard truth is the coach has little impact on a team and the GM has a huge impact on the team. Sure, Trotz deserves a lot of credit. But, the Isles made some smart minor moves to one of the best offenses in the league last year.

Huh yeah... Sullivan should have changed his formula then, which was my point to start with. As for the JJ shit, there's too much bs about this, i mean, like the Gonchar Lord had so much to do with it so yeah you're probably right about this one.

Anyway my new (based on your post) point is that there is NO hard truth that this coach has little impact on this team and you even went as far as state it was universal. I'm not saying you're stupid by any means, we all have brain farts but this part i highlighted, sir, with all due respect, was a stupid statement. Especially since GMs need coaches feedback to build their team.

 

[Gurglesons]

One cup. The 2nd was completely different. They win one cup playing one way and now it's the only way to win anymore. Not to mention it's a copycat league and they barely beat the Caps and Bolts that year. Nothing surefire about it.

So the coach that won two cups by changing his system with players suited to play that system suddenly sucks?

And the GM that has left a trail of cluelessness everywhere he’s gone isn’t the big overarching reason?

 

[KIRK]

Sure, we all agree on that. The issue is you win two cups doing something. JR strayed away from a formula that won. Sullivan didn’t.

I’d rather lose playing our game than watching Jack Johnson look like a jackass because JR has “learned to trust Sergei Gonchar”. Or Oleksiak get knocked out because JR said something about it to the media.

The hard truth is the coach has little impact on a team and the GM has a huge impact on the team. Sure, Trotz deserves a lot of credit. But, the Isles made some smart minor moves to one of the best offenses in the league last year.

Oh for heaven's sake, if you think JR signed Jack Johnson in any measure because of Sergei Gonchar, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

You’re missing the point. Sullivan plays an aggressive forecheck, quick exits, etc.

Every player JR has added since the 2017 playoffs has been the opposite of that.

A lot of players, for sure, but I'd say McCann embodies those traits pretty well.

JR also hardly forced Sully to play guys like ZAR and Wilson.

 

[BladeRunner66]

...f***! i have to f*** off now! I'm sure @pixiesfanyo will get a wonderful opportunity to reply though, i mean, last word and all.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

...****! i have to **** off now! I'm sure @pixiesfanyo will get a wonderful opportunity to reply though, i mean, last word and all.

No, you.

 

[Gurglesons]

A lot of players, for sure, but I'd say McCann embodies those traits pretty well.

JR also hardly forced Sully to play guys like ZAR and Wilson.

Wilson was one of our best wingers in the playoffs so. Can’t really get upset with that and he plays the role that the 4th line has the past three years. (Rowney and Kuhnhackl)

ZAR being up the line up was a result of injuries and JR. Unless you’re going to say Teddy should have been there. Which when there were injuries to our center depth Teddy was above Bjugstad. So, I don’t really buy it. Teddy just looked less impressive on the wing than Simon and ZAR which is pretty telling.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Wilson was one of our best wingers in the playoffs so. Can’t really get upset with that and he plays the role that the 4th line has the past three years. (Rowney and Kuhnhackl)

ZAR being up the line up was a result of injuries and JR. Unless you’re going to say Teddy should have been there. Which when there were injuries to our center depth Teddy was above Bjugstad. So, I don’t really buy it. Teddy just looked less impressive on the wing than Simon and ZAR which is pretty telling.

Wilson was one of our best forwards?

News to me. Particularly if you're touting an aggressive forecheck as something we need to do. Both Blueger and Johnson would have been better than plodders like ZAR and Wilson. They're part of the problem.

 

[Rusty Razor]

Penguins’ playoff exit was two years in the making Pretty good article that sums it up.

 

[SouthGeorge]

I don't get what some of you expect. 2 Cups in 4 years. You want a dynasty? Penguins fans don't have what it takes. Some of us are still crying about Fleury. You think Belichick would win a Super Bowl with somebody not playing and paying them Top 10 at their position and not move them immediately in the off-season? lol

 

[Gurglesons]

Wilson was one of our best forwards?

News to me. Particularly if you're touting an aggressive forecheck as something we need to do. Both Blueger and Johnson would have been better than plodders like ZAR and Wilson. They're part of the problem.

Wilson had more or as many goals as every single one of our wingers. And in regards to points more or the same as every forward not named Malkin or Kessel.

That’s all you can ask for from a 4th liner. And he was fine on the forecheck.

 

[vodeni]

Wilson had more or as many goals as every single one of our wingers. And in regards to points more or the same as every forward not named Malkin or Kessel.

That’s all you can ask for from a 4th liner. And he was fine on the forecheck.

agree on Wilson disagree on ZAR (empty sweater)

 

[Peat]

You’re missing the point. Sullivan plays an aggressive forecheck, quick exits, etc.

Every player JR has added since the 2017 playoffs has been the opposite of that.

With my full optimist hat on, getting McCann and Bjugstad could be a sign of Rutherford realising he'd strayed too far and looking to correct things, as I think they're both great forecheckers.

The hat doesn't stay on when I look at Gudbranson. He's been a lot, lot better than we were expecting but he's not an answer to the defence's problems.

 

[cookthebooks]

gudbranson looks to my eyes like the best case scenario for jj, which still isnt all that great when collecting and moving the puck fast is the most important skill in the present nhl

 

[Giskard]

The hat doesn't stay on when I look at Gudbranson. He's been a lot, lot better than we were expecting but he's not an answer to the defence's problems.

I think that Gudbranson is what GMJR thought he would get with Johnson when he signed him, a heavy reliable bottom D player. Now that he has Gudbranson, I think he will be more incline to trade JMFJ this off season.