The All Encompassing JR Thread

KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
51,216
1. Title kept PG because @DegenX, who forced me to start this thread, said she'd ban my candy ass if the thread title wasn't PG. :D

2. I think it's safe to say that JR's work over the last 18 months has been about as bad a stint as we've seen from a GM during the Crosby/Malkin era. I'll let subsequent posters/posts go into the details, but 18 months ago was the time to think about being proactive about starting a mini retool on the fly. Instead, JR (a) went with the Shero approach of keeping as much as you can, fill in with (perceived) 'poor man's versions', and then spend futures at the deadline and (b) took a team defined by speed, possession, and defensemen who could move the puck and support the offense and deconstructed it into whatever one would call them now.
 

Andy99

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Jun 26, 2017
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His last good trade was for Schultz...I’m including Bjug and McCann as incompletes because it’s too soon...
 

Slaaapshuter

Registered User
May 10, 2015
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Oh I have a feeling I'll park my ass in this thread, it's gonna be a doozy.

What good has the man done since Botterill left?

We know there's been a change in philosophy in terms of team identity, or how he wants to see the team built. It hasn't been successful so far.

And if we look at how well he's done in acquiring players for said new identity. Also not looking good, with Pettersson being the only one in the lineup from his acquisitions. And making it to the Pens bottom 4 isn't really a big achievement.
 

Pancakes

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Mar 4, 2011
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I can’t believe he got a three year contract.

A smart organization would have pushed him up to President and let Botts Be GM instead of losing him.

Instead they are going to do that with a Guerin who will probably trade Malkin.

Not like Botts has been stellar for Buffalo. That O'Reilly trade was garbage.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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San Diego, CA
last-train-tocool.blogspot.com
Oh I have a feeling I'll park my ass in this thread, it's gonna be a doozy.

What good has the man done since Botterill left?

We know there's been a change in philosophy in terms of team identity, or how he wants to see the team built. It hasn't been successful so far.

And if we look at how well he's done in acquiring players for said new identity. Also not looking good, with Pettersson being the only one in the lineup from his acquisitions. And making it to the Pens bottom 4 isn't really a big achievement.

He took the worst team in hockey and got them within a fighting chance of the playoffs this year?
 
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KIRK

Registered User
Aug 2, 2005
109,700
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Oh I have a feeling I'll park my ass in this thread, it's gonna be a doozy.

What good has the man done since Botterill left?

We know there's been a change in philosophy in terms of team identity, or how he wants to see the team built. It hasn't been successful so far.

And if we look at how well he's done in acquiring players for said new identity. Also not looking good, with Pettersson being the only one in the lineup from his acquisitions. And making it to the Pens bottom 4 isn't really a big achievement.

You won't be the only one parked in this thread.

I really don't know how it happened, but over the last 18 months, JR has morphed into the post 2009 cup Shero (and Sully into the post 2009 cup Bylsma with his refusal to continuously adapt to the team he has).

It was sad watching that several years ago in real time.

Now, we have history repeating itself, and yes . . . as tragedy (for Sid and Geno).
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,282
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I'm not in a position to compare things historically but -

Post 2017, he made the correct decision to let a lot of guys walk. They were declining, they were expensive, they were tired.

But in doing so he lost a lot of valuable things - more valuable than I think a lot of us realised. Daley's puck moving. Bonino being a 3C. Kunitz's physicality, as withered as it was. And crucially, he lost a hell of a lot of leadership and guys who didn't really need leading to begin with. I keep pointing at the mental side as being the real problem this season and I think in that respect, you've got to look at the guys who went and think "Ouch".

He hasn't replaced them - nor the speed + skill lost when Sheary proved to be a one hit wonder. People can make their own minds up to the difficulty of it but he had to fill the holes to give us the best shot and he hasn't.

That I could shrug off. Sometimes things don't go that way.

But the part where he's tried to execute an identity change only to not get the guys who could change it, nor guys who could play in the current one - ouch. To be honest, if I was to assign a common theme to Rutherford's recent acquisitions, it would be "I could get them and I think they're great players and I'm sure Sully will figure out the right way to use them".

And this is the bit I struggle with in terms of "Do I believe Rutherford will turn this around". Anyone can strike out in the trade market from time to time, no biggie. That's part luck, I can believe his luck will return. But he has to know what he needs to get and what they're going to do here and what he's trying to achieve. And that bit I'm more doubtful about.

In any case - its not been great. Still, there's definitely been worse GMs around in the past 18 months...
 

Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
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Florida trade pretty good
Brassard trade in hindsight not good
Reaves trade stupid
Buffalo trade stupid
Not signing Bonino stupid
Not replacing Daley stupid
Hagelin trade whatever (except now he’s on the Caps)
Hunwick signing bad
Johnson signing WOAT
Not replacing Schultz injury at all stupid


Yea I’d say it’s been a bad couple seasons that, short of a 2016 hot streak of asset management, demonstrate that JR doesn’t know what he’s doing. You can’t go from getting Kessel, Bonino, Daley, Hagelin for prospects/picks , Sutter, Scuderi and Perron to this nonsense without questioning who the driving force behind some of those deals was.
 

ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
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I think there is a clear turning point. 1st rounder + Sundy for Reaves. Like... you just won back to back cups with speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. You changed the game. In what world is getting bigger at all important?

And then i hear it from Toronto media! Claiming the Leafs need to get bigger to play Boston. :laugh: NO... the B's need to get faster to play the Leafs. Jeees.
 

Slaaapshuter

Registered User
May 10, 2015
1,189
849
You won't be the only one parked in this thread.

I really don't know how it happened, but over the last 18 months, JR has morphed into the post 2009 cup Shero (and Sully into the post 2009 cup Bylsma with his refusal to continuously adapt to the team he has).

It was sad watching that several years ago in real time.

Now, we have history repeating itself, and yes . . . as tragedy (for Sid and Geno).

I have a feeling of how it happened.

JR came in without any old alliegances and could ask his team to make the changes necessary.

Now he has alliegances and can't make the right decisions. He also lost Botterill who was obviously the brain behind getting the right players.

Clueless old country club. Same old, same old.
 

AverageJoeFan

Mad cat
Feb 15, 2018
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Pittsburgh
Of all people, I feel like he is complicit the most in the design and overall lack of cohesiveness on the team. Bad guesses? Maybe. But overall I think he has completely missed on finding the "right" guys that fit the system over the past year. He's won some cups, so hard to complain about all of it, but the past year has been underwhelming at best...
 
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Peat

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Jun 14, 2016
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I think there is a clear turning point. 1st rounder + Sundy for Reaves. Like... you just won back to back cups with speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. You changed the game. In what world is getting bigger at all important?

And then i hear it from Toronto media! Claiming the Leafs need to get bigger to play Boston. :laugh: NO... the B's need to get faster to play the Leafs. Jeees.

The world where Sid and Geno are complaining to ownership about not having enough protection on ice ;)

(this might fly more as an argument if Rutherford then didn't totally size queen it and look for more fighty people)
 
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ColePens

RIP Fugu Buffaloed & parabola
Mar 27, 2008
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Pittsburgh
Just want to set the record straight...


Brassard trade: GOOD. It was Brass at 3m. Are you kidding? Slam dunk. Hindsight? Awful. That is not on JR, IMO. That happens.
Florida trade: pretty good


Reaves trade stupid
Buffalo trade stupid but sort of understand.... until he signed JJ. Like wuuuut?

Not signing Bonino: Okay that's how salary cap teams work... but in hindsight AWFUL. Could have had Bones for free instead of trading a ton of assets for stuff that didn't work out. That is the reason why all of you people who want trades need to calm down. New toys do not always mean we have awesome fun toys. Like what really is the difference between Bjugs and Bones? Think about how much we gave up to make that trade off. That's bad.


The rest:

Not replacing Daley stupid
Hagelin trade whatever (except now he’s on the Caps)
Hunwick signing bad
Johnson signing WOAT
 

ncm7772

Registered User
Apr 10, 2016
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Upstate NY
I think there is a clear turning point. 1st rounder + Sundy for Reaves. Like... you just won back to back cups with speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed. You changed the game. In what world is getting bigger at all important?

And then i hear it from Toronto media! Claiming the Leafs need to get bigger to play Boston. :laugh: NO... the B's need to get faster to play the Leafs. Jeees.

Amen to both points, brother.

That's my biggest issue with GMJR. Your teams literally changed the NHL. And won 2 Cups. But for some reason you decide to build your team like its 2010.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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25,205
I'll stand for Brassard being bad not being a 20/20 hindsight thing. Lots and lots of centres blossom/wilt dramatically depending on whether they're a 2C with lots of offensive support of a 3C making do with the scraps and carrying the can. Chucking a lot of assets at a 2C to play 3C always came with risk.

And with 20/20 hindsight, Brassard is the poster child for acquiring players without really considering their fit.

You guys forgot about the Sprong trade

Probably his best moment of the last 18 months tbh.
 

Turin

Registered User
Feb 27, 2018
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Sprong trade was alright, and the kind of under radar pickup that makes you wonder who is making these calls.

It’s mostly just the Johnson thing that boggles the mind, the rest have logic.
 
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Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
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I will say this for the old man -

He's done a stellar job of making us younger and preserving asset value this year. Mightn't have worked out perfectly on the ice, but I don't think its what cost us and it should benefit us going forwards.
 

Gurglesons

Registered User
Dec 18, 2009
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I will say this for the old man -

He's done a stellar job of making us younger and preserving asset value this year. Mightn't have worked out perfectly on the ice, but I don't think its what cost us and it should benefit us going forwards.

Yeah, he definitely deserves props there.

Honestly his trades this year I’ve been a big fan of.

Pearson, Bjugstad, McCann, and Pettersson in for a bunch of UFAs a couple 4ths a 2nd and a redundant boom or bust RW prospect is solid work.

My biggest complaint is the Reaves trade. You know you’re going to let Bonino walk at that point and you trade our only center prospect worth anything for a fighter. No chance the Blues were insisting on Sundqvist.
 
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ownal

Registered User
Jan 26, 2019
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Pittsburgh
Negatives:

Letting Fleury go. We won two cups with a 1A-1B tandem.
Not resigning Cole and Bones.
Signing Sheary on the high side and then trading for nothing.
Reaves trade lost us our future 4th line center and a 1st.
Johnson signing and not owning up to his mistake.
His inability to replace Schultz after the injury.


Rumors:

Toronto wanted Pouliot but JR gave Kapanen instead.
 

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