The All Encompassing JR Thread

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

He's going to name himself starting goalie isn't he?

Some people would probably be fine with that, as much flak as Murray gets.

 

[Empoleon8771]

this.

i think JR legitimately believes that this defense is good and that JJ is a great defenseman. i think it's very troubling that he thinks that, but i believe he actually believes it.

I also want to see what a new defensive structure would do for this team. A lot of the problems I saw with the defense stemmed from constant stupid plays from the defense, and when everyone is making those stupid plays, I'm inclined to believe that it's a coaching issue. At that point, I'd be more likely to believe that they're getting bad coaching than to believe that all of their defensemen are brainless.

I'd want to see what the defense would look like after you got rid of Martin and get a new coach that will iron out some of the kinks. It won't be that good because Johnson sucks and will be in their top-4, but the defense is still probably fine overall if you knock the stupid out of them. I feel like whoever is in charge of the defensive structures is enabling the stupidity.

 

[turd]

I also want to see what a new defensive structure would do for this team. A lot of the problems I saw with the defense stemmed from constant stupid plays from the defense, and when everyone is making those stupid plays, I'm inclined to believe that it's a coaching issue. At that point, I'd be more likely to believe that they're getting bad coaching than to believe that all of their defensemen are brainless.

I wanna see a new structure as well, but I’m not totally sold on it being just a coaching issue. Take Gudbranson for example. He came here, simplified his game, and (mostly) looked pretty good. Then you have a guy like Letang, who has always had a negative hockey IQ, try to play hero and bone a play all up. I think the coaching and structure could be better, but I also think that JR’s “best defensive group ever” or whatever dumbass thing it was he said, just kinda suck for the most part.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I wanna see a new structure as well, but I’m not totally sold on it being just a coaching issue. Take Gudbranson for example. He came here, simplified his game, and (mostly) looked pretty good. Then you have a guy like Letang, who has always had a negative hockey IQ, try to play hero and bone a play all up. I think the coaching and structure could be better, but I also think that JR’s “best defensive group ever” or whatever dumbass thing it was he said, just kinda suck for the most part.

Gudbranson seems like an exception to the rule of "this team is filled with idiots on defense". After Letang, I noticed that Pettersson, Johnson and Schultz also had problems of being way too aggressive when it came to pinching and it often bit the team in the ass. When you're talking about 3 or 4 or 5 defensemen on your team that constantly make bad decisions when it comes to pinching or playing aggressive, I'm thinking they're being told to play that way.

If this team would follow Gudbranson's lead and simplify their game, I really think that would solve a majority of the issues from the defense. The puck moving talent and offensive ability overall would still be lacking, but you still have some of that on this defense and you wouldn't be bleeding odd man rushes.

 

[Gurglesons]

They sure caused us fits.

And Wilson is that archetype of player. And honesty so is ZAR. ZAR - Blueger - Wilson would basically be that fourth line with a little talent fall off between Teddy and Casey.

The statistics and number difference in point production between ZAR = Clutterbuck and Wilson = Martin are marginal.

 

[Coastal Kev]

And Wilson is that archetype of player. And honesty so is ZAR. ZAR - Blueger - Wilson would basically be that fourth line with a little talent fall off between Teddy and Casey.

The statistics and number difference in point production between ZAR = Clutterbuck and Wilson = Martin are marginal.

???

Stats aside......???? You're telling me that Wilson & ZAR are as hard on the forecheck as Clutterbuck, Zikas and Martin? Teddy... maybe. But he doesn't have the size, definitely has the will.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

And Wilson is that archetype of player. And honesty so is ZAR. ZAR - Blueger - Wilson would basically be that fourth line with a little talent fall off between Teddy and Casey.

The statistics and number difference in point production between ZAR = Clutterbuck and Wilson = Martin are marginal.

And yet the difference in performance is pronounced. If you watched both 4th lines this year and think they're comparable, I dunno what to tell ya. Our 4th line stunk. Theirs didn't.

 

[Gurglesons]

And yet the difference in performance is pronounced. If you watched both 4th lines this year and think they're comparable, I dunno what to tell ya. Our 4th line stunk. Theirs didn't.

Our 4th line produced nearly identical to theirs. Also their fourth line costs 9+mil and ours costed under 2.

My main point is players like Wilson and ZAR were not the issues here. Well, ZAR being in the top six was an issue, but when he’s your 2nd best LW because you trade away Hagelin for Pearson and then Pearson for Gudbranson that isn’t really on the coach.

 

[cvrle1]

I also want to see what a new defensive structure would do for this team. A lot of the problems I saw with the defense stemmed from constant stupid plays from the defense, and when everyone is making those stupid plays, I'm inclined to believe that it's a coaching issue. At that point, I'd be more likely to believe that they're getting bad coaching than to believe that all of their defensemen are brainless.

I'd want to see what the defense would look like after you got rid of Martin and get a new coach that will iron out some of the kinks. It won't be that good because Johnson sucks and will be in their top-4, but the defense is still probably fine overall if you knock the stupid out of them. I feel like whoever is in charge of the defensive structures is enabling the stupidity.

According to JR, this is best defensive group since he came in

“I think our defense is probably the best now that it’s been since I’ve been here as a group,” Rutherford said. “You always like mobile defensemen. You like guys who can move the puck. We have at least one guy on each pairing who can move the puck. Now we have guys who can have some pushback.”

So , forget any one of these plugs being traded it seems. Starting with Letang and all the way down to JJ and Maatta. And that is a scary thought for next season. i hope he is just saying this because it is a nice thing to say, and doesnt truly believe it. I also hope that he does trade away at least one of these guys not named Gudbranson (who would have thought this would be the case when he was traded here)

 

[The Old Master]

According to JR, this is best defensive group since he came in

“I think our defense is probably the best now that it’s been since I’ve been here as a group,” Rutherford said. “You always like mobile defensemen. You like guys who can move the puck. We have at least one guy on each pairing who can move the puck. Now we have guys who can have some pushback.”

this hast to be jr pumping up the trade bait. there is no other explanation.

 

[KIRK]

this hast to be jr pumping up the trade bait. there is no other explanation.

How about . . . SENILITY.

 

[Slaaapshuter]

How about . . . SENILITY.

Maybe he's just not good, maybe even awful? Maybe as someone pointed out, he could have just done hes usual wheeling and dealing and just got lucky with something that worked?

I'd say there are more things pointing to that being true than... I don't even know what's going on anymore.

He was terrible in Carolina and he's terrible now. Maybe it was all just Botterill/Others and pure luck?

I guess calling this the best D he's assembled speaks volumes of his previous builds then?

It's comical at this point. And I was looking forward/being excited about the offseason to see something new being built. Ya, not anymore...

 

[Super Birthday Snake]

f*** me those quote from JR are sphincter twitching. Wasn't really sure if JR or sullivan was more to blame but thats got me leaning way more to JR. Get him to f***

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Our 4th line produced nearly identical to theirs. Also their fourth line costs 9+mil and ours costed under 2.

My main point is players like Wilson and ZAR were not the issues here. Well, ZAR being in the top six was an issue, but when he’s your 2nd best LW because you trade away Hagelin for Pearson and then Pearson for Gudbranson that isn’t really on the coach.

It showed.

Rust is our 2nd best LW - though Sullivan did everything in its power to avoid that until the last minute when he exhausted every other option - and Simon is our 3rd. ZAR should never be above the 4th line, but that's another issue altogether.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It showed.

Rust is our 2nd best LW - though Sullivan did everything in its power to avoid that until the last minute when he exhausted every other option - and Simon is our 3rd. ZAR should never be above the 4th line, but that's another issue altogether.

I think that's really damning on JR's roster building ability if Rust is your 2nd best LWer and Simon is your 3rd best LWer.

 

[Gurglesons]

It showed.

Rust is our 2nd best LW - though Sullivan did everything in its power to avoid that until the last minute when he exhausted every other option - and Simon is our 3rd. ZAR should never be above the 4th line, but that's another issue altogether.

Simon and ZAR are both third and fourth liners and players you can afford to be your third and fourth liners when you have centers picking up the slack on this lines and a 2nd line.

Also, Rust was terrible on the LW this year despite your insistence that Rust - Malkin - Kessel is some type of revelation.

And duh it showed. Their 4th line makes 9 mil. Would you like us to move out Hornqvist or Kessel and invest that in the 4th line?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Simon and ZAR are both third and fourth liners and players you can afford to be your third and fourth liners when you have centers picking up the slack on this lines and a 2nd line.

We don't need ZAR to be a 4th liner because we have faster young players who can do a better job of fitting our identity for the same price.

Also, Rust was terrible on the LW this year despite your insistence that Rust - Malkin - Kessel is some type of revelation.

How did you determine that?

"Rust is terrible on LW" is a truism that I've yet to see any tangible support for.

And duh it showed. Their 4th line makes 9 mil. Would you like us to move out Hornqvist or Kessel and invest that in the 4th line?

I would have us use faster players we have in reserve rather than "pushback" plodders who don't even push back. Wilson and ZAR are Gladams redux, and the sooner the Pens realize that the better off we'll be.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I think that's really damning on JR's roster building ability if Rust is your 2nd best LWer and Simon is your 3rd best LWer.

Not if Guentzel, Hornqvist, and Kessel are your RWs.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not if Guentzel, Hornqvist, and Kessel are your RWs.

So McCann is your best LWer then? That's even worse

 

[Gurglesons]

We don't need ZAR to be a 4th liner because we have faster young players who can do a better job of fitting our identity for the same price.

Who? Teddy looked lost as a 4th line wing and Johnson was fine, but ZAR actually produced.

Not a ZAR fan, but acting like AJ in and ZAR out is the secret to our identity is foolish especially consider Kuhnhackl and Rowney played nearly all of each cup run.

How did you determine that?

"Rust is terrible on LW" is a truism that I've yet to see any tangible support for.

I would have us use faster players we have in reserve rather than "pushback" plodders who don't even push back. Wilson and ZAR are Gladams redux, and the sooner the Pens realize that the better off we'll be.

# 1. Wilson and ZAR are nothing like Glass Adams and is the laziest argument on here. They’re fringe NHL talent, but they play creative games and don’t just punch faces.

# 2. Rust - Malkin - Kessel was used in the playoffs and was mediocre and was used in the regular season for 50ish minutes was pretty mediocre as well.

I feel like you’re insistence on RMK is because we have not seen it rather than any merit reason.

 

[Turin]

The fourth line also would have looked better if Cullen wasn’t cooked, but he is significantly worse than he was in 2016/17. It had to happen eventually.

All in all, the supporting cast of Cole, Bonino, Daley, Hagelin, Sheary, Lovejoy, Hainsey, is largely better than who replaced them and Malkin, Kessel and Hornqvist sucked at ES.

And Jack Johnson is still in the league playing real minutes for this team for some god forsaken reason.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Rust needs to take a step back on the roster, IMO. Regardless of what wing he plays on. I don't really see him as a long term top six forward. I hope he can find that form again but the last two years I haven't really seen it.

Honestly I just really dislike the wings (as top six options, at least) on this team bar a couple.

 

[EliteGoaltending]

Rust needs to take a step back on the roster, IMO. Regardless of what wing he plays on. I don't really see him as a long term top six forward. I hope he can find that form again but the last two years I haven't really seen it.

Honestly I just really dislike the wings (as top six options, at least) on this team bar a couple.

I disliked this group of wingers/forwards, especially for top 6 in terms of a fit, going into season, but didn't expect Kessel and especially Hornqvist being so bad at ES this season.

Right now, I think they need to keep only one of Rust, Kessel and Hornqvist and play him on a 3rd line. (Or trade one of Kessel and Hornqvist and keep Rust)

Skinny of a forward line up for the next season

Guentzel-Crosby-x(a third wheel, McCann flipped with Jake)
McCann (or another third wheel)-Malkin-x(a top 6 wing with well rounded game or at least close to it)
x-Bjug-Kessel/Rust/Hornqvist
x-Blueger-x

And yeah, with Jack Johnson still in the lineup and Sullivan still coaching this team, it all might not matter.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That was pretty much ripped directly from my own brain. Well said.

 

[Gurglesons]

So McCann is your best LWer then? That's even worse

As a huge fan of McCann before we traded him, people are putting way too much stock into him looking good for a couple weeks with Sid.

He should be a depth forward here. Ultimately a cheap replacement for Rust if we move him.