Movies: The 91st Academy Awards - GDT

[syz]

Lol, hadn't even realized this. Damn.

 

[Fantomas]

I read it. The movie is based on stories collected by the white guy's son, so it shouldn't be much of a surprise that it's from his father's POV. And do you really think people like Olivia Coleman and Ali would become involved in something like this if it was legitimately racist? Green Book has its flaws, but to simply call it "racist" is lazy and inaccurate IMO.

I wasn't the one to call it racist. Whether it's racist or not I guess depends on the perspective, but that's not the framing I want to use.

Telling the story from the point of view of that man was the filmmaker's decision. And it's a bad decision, considering the sensitivity of the topic and what we know about Shirley's family's reaction.

Imagine a film made from Shirley's point of view and how different it may have been. We have enough movies about race told by white people, so one has to wonder a) why tread the same ground and b) why reward the same damn nonsense?

 

[Osprey]

Imagine a film made from Shirley's point of view and how different it may have been. We have enough movies about race told by white people, so one has to wonder a) why tread the same ground and b) why reward the same damn nonsense?

Don't we have plenty of movies about race told by black people, and wouldn't another be treading the same ground as those before it, as well? Also, why is it nonsense for movies about race to be told by white people? They have their own experiences with racism that count for something, even if they're not the targets of that racism. As long as they stick to their experiences and don't try to communicate the black experience, I don't see a problem.

I think that it's good to have both perspectives. In the same way that it's educational for white people to see things through the eyes of black people, there are probably some things that black people may learn by seeing the issue from the other side, as well. We're not going to heal race relations until both sides understand and trust one another, and Green Book seems to me to be a movie about doing that. It shouldn't really matter which perspective it's told from, IMO.

 

[Fantomas]

Don't we have plenty of movies about race told by black people

No

In the same way that it's educational for white people to see things through the eyes of black people, there are probably some things that black people may learn by seeing the issue from the other side, as well.

"black people may learn"

 

[Osprey]

No

"black people may learn"

I thought that I was replying to someone who was looking for an intelligent discussion. My mistake.

 

[Live in the Now]

I thought that I was replying to someone who was looking for an intelligent discussion. My mistake.

I liked Green Book a fair bit (nowhere near this much) and nothing about what you said was particularly intelligent. I should also point out that a movie that reduces some of these important scenes to comedy fodder should not win these kinds of awards. That being said there is definitely room for a more light look at things, but those things need to be treated for what they are. They are not the best anything, nothing really hits home in that film. There's a few scenes where Mahershala Ali really brings it, but there are so many other events in the film that the most notable of those scenes is easy to forget.

Other than the scene where Ali's character talks about his lack of inclusion into any category of person, there's really nothing there that I find memorable on that level at all. There's also the fact that Ali's character was a one in a million person and not representative of the experience of a large group of people. Green Book is a movie that I thought people went to go see during the holidays so that they could avoid their horrible families. That seemed to me to be the reason it came out right at that time.

It appears that people would rather see the simple look at racial problems awarded with recognition. The complex is much too far a bridge for most people to cross. If you want to see something that wasn't nominated I couldn't recommend more that you watch Blindspotting, but Roma should have won. It is another look at the same problems, and is also something a lot of people want to ignore. Roma also has the three or four most memorable scenes I've seen in a film all year and I've seen a fair bit. The quantity and quality of those memorable scenes is my personal standard for award recognition, anyway. The most memorable Best Picture winners also adhere to this standard, or they adhere to a much lower standard where everyone regrets they won the award over something much better.

I read it. The movie is based on stories collected by the white guy's son, so it shouldn't be much of a surprise that it's from his father's POV. And do you really think people like Olivia Coleman and Ali would become involved in something like this if it was legitimately racist? Green Book has its flaws, but to simply call it "racist" is lazy and inaccurate IMO.

The problem with the film isn't that it's racist. It isn't. The problem is that this is a very, very soft version of telling a story about race problems in our country. It is also predictable from the first moment. I do think it is on the high end of these kinds of soft stories about racism, but the field this year was much stronger than this film. Between what did get nominated and what didn't.

 

[Live in the Now]

Don't we have plenty of movies about race told by black people, and wouldn't another be treading the same ground as those before it, as well? Also, why is it nonsense for movies about race to be told by white people? They have their own experiences with racism that count for something, even if they're not the targets of that racism. As long as they stick to their experiences and don't try to communicate the black experience, I don't see a problem.

I think that it's good to have both perspectives. In the same way that it's educational for white people to see things through the eyes of black people, there are probably some things that black people may learn by seeing the issue from the other side, as well. We're not going to heal race relations until both sides understand and trust one another, and Green Book seems to me to be a movie about doing that. It shouldn't really matter which perspective it's told from, IMO.

I had this discussion with a friend about 15 years ago. I will admit that I did not understand either. At least until he told me that all we had was the white perspective until Do the Right Thing. And for many years after that what we had was the white perspective . Considering most white people do not watch black films, that is very difficult to dispute. At the time I definitely couldn’t dispute it. My friend was right.

At least, that is, until the last few years. The tide is changing and to reward the simple story, I don’t think it feels right. The black perspective is now being told and it feels there are a lot of people who do not like this. That does not mean that’s what should win Best Picture every year, I definitely don’t think that. But for Green Book to win is totally bizarre.

 

[Osprey]

I liked Green Book a fair bit (nowhere near this much) and nothing about what you said was particularly intelligent.

Having an intelligent discussion is putting thought into what the other person is saying and into what you want to say and then making your argument in a respectful manner.

The problem with the film isn't that it's racist. It isn't. The problem is that this is a very, very soft version of telling a story about race problems in our country. It is also predictable from the first moment. I do think it is on the high end of these kinds of soft stories about racism, but the field this year was much stronger than this film. Between what did get nominated and what didn't.

At least, that is, until the last few years. The tide is changing and to reward the simple story, I don’t think it feels right. The black perspective is now being told and it feels there are a lot of people who do not like this. That does not mean that’s what should win Best Picture every year, I definitely don’t think that. But for Green Book to win is totally bizarre.

I don't see any implicit problem with a soft telling of race problems. Not everything needs to be heavy and make you super uncomfortable like 12 Years a Slave. Now, if you don't think that a soft telling should win Best Picture, that's another matter. I think that we need to keep the two arguments separate, though, because one suggests a problem with the film, itself, and the other suggests a problem with the Academy. It sounds like you're arguing more for the latter, and I'm not arguing with you on that.

 

[discostu]

Having an intelligent discussion is putting thought into what the other person is saying and into what you want to say and then making your argument in a respectful manner.



I don't see any implicit problem with a soft telling of race problems. Not everything needs to be heavy and make you super uncomfortable like 12 Years a Slave. Now, if you don't think that a soft telling should win Best Picture, that's another matter. I think that we need to keep the two arguments separate, though, because one suggests a problem with the film, itself, and the other suggests a problem with the Academy. It sounds like you're arguing more for the latter, and I'm not arguing with you on that.

I don't think they argument should be that are mivie needs to be heavy. It just needs to be a relevant take.

You mentioned that you feel black people can learn from this movie. I'm reluctant to jump into this thread but I'm trying to figure out what you feel this movie have to teach black people about race relations?

 

[le_sean]

The Academy lost credibility right from the start when they didn’t even nominate Ethan Hawke.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I wasn't the one to call it racist. Whether it's racist or not I guess depends on the perspective, but that's not the framing I want to use.

Telling the story from the point of view of that man was the filmmaker's decision. And it's a bad decision, considering the sensitivity of the topic and what we know about Shirley's family's reaction.

Imagine a film made from Shirley's point of view and how different it may have been. We have enough movies about race told by white people, so one has to wonder a) why tread the same ground and b) why reward the same damn nonsense?

According to Nick Vallelonga, Don Shirley specifically told him to not consult with other family members before he died. What, are you suggesting that he should've just ignored the actual source character's request?

Vallelonga — whose father, Tony Lip, is played by Viggo Mortensen in “Green Book” — revealed that Dr. Shirley, before his death, told him not to speak to anyone else while writing the story.

“It’s unfortunate to me because I don’t want to hurt the Shirley family in any way,” Vallelonga said Tuesday night.

“They were together a year and a half and they did remain friends,” Vallelonga continued. “There’s a lot of information [the Shirley family] doesn’t have, and they were hurt that I didn’t speak to them. But to be quite honest with you, Don Shirley himself told me not to speak to anyone. And he only wanted certain parts of his life. He only allowed me to tell what happened on the trip. Since [the family] were not on the trip — this is right out of his mouth — he said, ‘No one else was there but your father and I. We’ve told you.’ And he approved what I put in and didn’t put in. So obviously, to say I didn’t contact them, that was hard for me because I didn’t want to betray what I promised him [Dr. Shirley].”

‘Green Book’ Writer Defends Film After Family Backlash: Don Shirley ‘Approved What I Put In’ (EXCLUSIVE)

If the quote from Vallelonga is accurate, who gives a shit about the Shirley family's reaction if Shirley himself instructed Vallelonga to not consult them?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Also, I hate people calling Green Book a "white savior movie". If anything, it's a black savior movie since the entire movie revolves around a gay, black man saving a white man from a life of prejudice and hate. They both helped each other at various times in the movie overcome adversity.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Lol wtf is that win.

Roma robbed

I watched Roma three times. The first sit-through took me two sessions since I found it very tedious and boring at times. The most memorable thing for me in the first session was being able to accurately predict when the characters would say "Boris!" to the dog. The second and third sit-throughs were because I thought I was missing something with everyone saying it was the clear front-runner, shoe-in for Best Picture.

Roma was a very good movie. I cannot possibly see how it should've won best picture, however.

 

[Kaapo Cabana]

Black Panther being nominated for best picture is a bigger farce than Green Book winning.

It wasn't even the best Marvel movie this year.

 

[Voight]

Would have gone Bale for best actor but Malek was my 2nd pick, also great to see Green Book won best picture.

Bale was amazing as Cheney. You legitimately thought it was the real guy in the movie, he completely aced his expressions, mannerisms and the way he spoke.

Also, I hate people calling Green Book a "white savior movie". If anything, it's a black savior movie since the entire movie revolves around a gay, black man saving a white man from a life of prejudice and hate. They both helped each other at various times in the movie overcome adversity.

The scene that really got me was when Tony was playing dice with the other drivers and Shirley tells him "they're out here because they dont have a choice... you have the option of being inside"

 

[Voight]

Black Panther being nominated for best picture is a bigger farce than Green Book winning.

It wasn't even the best Marvel movie this year.

There are certain reasons it was nominated, ones that dont really need to be discussed.

 

[le_sean]

I watched Roma three times. The first sit-through took me two sessions since I found it very tedious and boring at times. The most memorable thing for me in the first session was being able to accurately predict when the characters would say "Boris!" to the dog. The second and third sit-throughs were because I thought I was missing something with everyone saying it was the clear front-runner, shoe-in for Best Picture.

Roma was a very good movie. I cannot possibly see how it should've won best picture, however.

It’s not the best movie I’ve ever seen but it was way better than the other nominees.

I saw it in a cinema though, it really enhances the film because it’s visually stunning. It’s just beautifully crafted and deals with some serious subject matters without being preachy. It juxataposes two different wealth classes without throwing it in our faces. It envelopes us into a period and location that we are not familiar with but don’t feel out of place.

I thought it was a great film, and compared to Bohemian Rhapsody, Black Panther, Green Book and Vice, it’s a masterpiece. Plus with the history of the Academy completely ignoring foreign language films for the big prize, this was their opportunity to break down that barrier.

 

[John Price]

Spike Lee's temper tantrum after Green Book won

 

[Lshap]

Also, I hate people calling Green Book a "white savior movie". If anything, it's a black savior movie since the entire movie revolves around a gay, black man saving a white man from a life of prejudice and hate. They both helped each other at various times in the movie overcome adversity.

Agreed. Its critics wanted Green Book to be a different movie that told a different story, rather than appreciate the actual story it was telling. Green Book was, at its core, a story of the complex relationship between two very different men. The setting references America's racist history, but the story doesn't stop and settle there. It follows the arc of the two main characters, not the larger arc of American racial relationships. Those who wanted a history lesson should watch other films. This was a movie about friendship.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

The award that made me happiest was Olivia Colman's win.
The award that bummed me out the most was The Favourite losing original screenplay to Green Book.

I really enjoyed not having a host. I hope this continues in the future.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

It’s not the best movie I’ve ever seen but it was way better than the other nominees.

I saw it in a cinema though, it really enhances the film because it’s visually stunning. It’s just beautifully crafted and deals with some serious subject matters without being preachy. It juxataposes two different wealth classes without throwing it in our faces. It envelopes us into a period and location that we are not familiar with but don’t feel out of place.

I thought it was a great film, and compared to Bohemian Rhapsody, Black Panther, Green Book and Vice, it’s a masterpiece. Plus with the history of the Academy completely ignoring foreign language films for the big prize, this was their opportunity to break down that barrier.

I think the filming of Roma was gorgeous. The story was just "meh", frankly. I didn't find it overly compelling. I think Roma was an exercise in utterly incredible film-making but certainly not storytelling. I think it won the two important categories it deserved: Best Cinematography and Best Director. Roma looks incredible on my LG OLED. Unbelievable, gorgeous, and somehow lush even as a black and white movie. To do that is unreal to me.

But I just cannot fathom it being best picture. I saw all of the Best Picture nominees and Roma, as a whole, would've been towards the bottom. I had The Favourite as my favorite (no pun intended) with Green Book at #2.

Roma's story as a whole was pretty damn derivative if you ask me.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

The award that made me happiest was Olivia Colman's win.
The award that bummed me out the most was The Favourite losing original screenplay to Green Book.

I really enjoyed not having a host. I hope this continues in the future.

Agreed with this. I felt The Favourite should've won Original Screenplay if it wasn't getting Best Picture. Would've liked that split more. Granted, I had The Favourite as my top movie, anyway.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Also, they couldn't squeeze 4 seconds of Stanley Donen into the in memorium? That seems like a small ask for a worthy legend rather than punting him to next year.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Spike Lee's temper tantrum after Green Book won

I thought the more amusing thing was people trying to claim he wasn't upset that he lost but that Green Book won. It was painfully obvious he was upset he lost and he even essentially admitted it.

 

[Pilky01]

Green Book looks corny but considering how much the blue check market Twitterati hate it I am glad it won.



These people keep making these jokes while at the same time advocating for Black Panther to win Movie of the Year.