Prospect Info: The 2019 Entry NHL Draft Thread

[Piestany88]

Wrong. Allthough the kiddy league is in right spot

Priceless dude

 

[Piestany88]

Bleed well:
- KHL>SEL>NLA>FEL>GEL(german league)>the rest....
- KHL>SEL/NLA/FEL>GEL

Henchman:
- NHL > KHL > SEL > FEL > NLA > NCAA > OHL > USHL >QMJHL = WHL > BCHL = Various Euro Junior leagues > Minn HS > AJHL

Your rankings are basically the same... In your first point you have NLA/FEL swapped, and in the second you have all three SEL/NLA/FEL as interchangeable whereas Hench has the FEL>NLA.

NLA>FEL

 

[flyfysher]

Is there an ignore feature for obnoxious posters?

 

[The Abusement Park]

Is there an ignore feature for obnoxious posters?

Yes.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Wasn’t Cam Morrison one of the top players in the USHL as a 17 year old. Find it hard to believe that league is better than leagues that had Barzal, Chabot, Meier, Girard, Point and Nolan Patrick that same year.

I’m sure USHL is good and all, but once good players turn 18 they can either turn pro or play college. They don’t stick around playing in the USHL. In the WHL and QMJHL you have to stay in junior until your ready to go pro. Top talent sticks around in the CHL.

Junior and youth hockey in America has grown astronomically and will continue to improve but I think it’s absolutely crazy to suggest it’s better than any of the 3 major junior leagues up north.

 

[flyfysher]

Is there an ignore feature for obnoxious posters?

Figured it out. Thanks. Differing opinions are okay in hockey. People that act like jerks and demean other posters, especially ones I've followed and whose opinions I've respected, is not okay. I'll save that kind of criticism for my opponents on the political forums where I expect that kind of ****.

 

[Balthazar]

The difference between the USHL and the CHL is closer than you think... people still think of it the way it was 5 years ago, it's improved a ton even since then.

The CHL is basically one league separated geographically. Same players, same age, same country, same rules, same everything (well, almost). I don't know how another league can get in between the OHL and the Q or the WHL. That'd be like putting the KHL between the eastern and western conference in the NHL. The gap isn't big enough to put a whole other league in there.

 

[henchman21]

The CHL is basically one league separated geographically. Same players, same age, same country, same rules, same everything (well, almost). I don't know how another league can get in between the OHL and the Q or the WHL. That'd be like putting the KHL between the eastern and western conference in the NHL. The gap isn't big enough to put a whole other league in there.

Then we just say they are all equal?

IMO geography does tend to have a lot to do with the relative strength though. The OHL is pulling from the hotbed of hockey in both the US and Canada.

 

[S E P H]

Generally speaking what is the rankings of leagues outside the NHL?
NHL>KHL>NLA/SEL/FEL?>OHL>NCAA>USHL>WHL/QMJHL?>Canadian college..?

NHL > KHL > SEL > FEL > NLA > NCAA > OHL > USHL >QMJHL = WHL > BCHL = Various Euro Junior leagues > Minn HS > AJHL

Really? I would've thought that'd be reversed considering the talent the OHL has churned out, and continues to.

Older competition... the OHL will produce more talent, but the NCAA is tougher to play in. Just like the OHL will produce WAY more talent than NLA, but the NLA is a tougher league.

I definitely agree with putting NCAA above the CHL. As Hench said, CHL will produce higher top end talent, but give me age and especially (older) goaltending over any junior league in the world. For example, if Colton Point played in the CHL, he would've set records even if he isn't better than Hart long-term. MHL getting seriously underrated though.

If Henchy gets a time out... I'll revolt!

Going to dye your hair a rainbow colour and wear a p***y-hat in revolt?

Wasn’t Cam Morrison one of the top players in the USHL as a 17 year old. Find it hard to believe that league is better than leagues that had Barzal, Chabot, Meier, Girard, Point and Nolan Patrick that same year.

I’m sure USHL is good and all, but once good players turn 18 they can either turn pro or play college. They don’t stick around playing in the USHL. In the WHL and QMJHL you have to stay in junior until your ready to go pro. Top talent sticks around in the CHL.

Junior and youth hockey in America has grown astronomically and will continue to improve but I think it’s absolutely crazy to suggest it’s better than any of the 3 major junior leagues up north.

The USHL and CHL are mixed in, so it's harder to say which one is better, especially when junior teams can get so stacked and so bad in the matter of a couple seasons. I would say that majority of USHL teams would be in the middle of the pack/bubble with CHL teams, the best USHL teams will be there fighting with the top CHL teams. However, the powerhouse teams in the CHL (Halifax Mooseheads and Windsor Spitfire to name a few) would rip apart even the best USHL teams IMHO.

 

[henchman21]

Wasn’t Cam Morrison one of the top players in the USHL as a 17 year old. Find it hard to believe that league is better than leagues that had Barzal, Chabot, Meier, Girard, Point and Nolan Patrick that same year.

I’m sure USHL is good and all, but once good players turn 18 they can either turn pro or play college. They don’t stick around playing in the USHL. In the WHL and QMJHL you have to stay in junior until your ready to go pro. Top talent sticks around in the CHL.

Junior and youth hockey in America has grown astronomically and will continue to improve but I think it’s absolutely crazy to suggest it’s better than any of the 3 major junior leagues up north.

That same year the USHL had Keller and Fox drafted, but every league has up and down years. If we want to cherry pick years... how about 14-15 USHL? Matthews, Connor, Boeser, Bellows, JFK, White, Roslovic, Fischer, Greenway, Terry, M Tkachuk, McAvoy, and Pionk all in the same league. That is 3 legit star level young players (Matthews, Boeser and McAvoy) and 2 really good NHLer in Connor and Tkachuk... and other good young talent in there that doesn't approach some of the other fringe talent and goalies. I get that the USHL doesn't get a lot of hype, but it is a damn good league and has produced some really good players.

Personally I'd take that Matthews/McAvoy/Boeser triumvirate over any league that year. The OHL is close with McDavid/Marner/Chychrun though.

 

[The Kingslayer]

There's always one or two dudes every year. Remember the J-S Giguere homer guy?

Nobody will ever beat Cream Soda. That was Jose Theodore's burner account.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

That same year the USHL had Keller and Fox drafted, but every league has up and down years. If we want to cherry pick years... how about 14-15 USHL? Matthews, Connor, Boeser, Bellows, JFK, White, Roslovic, Fischer, Greenway, Terry, M Tkachuk, McAvoy, and Pionk all in the same league. That is 3 legit star level young players (Matthews, Boeser and McAvoy) and 2 really good NHLer in Connor and Tkachuk... and other good young talent in there that doesn't approach some of the other fringe talent and goalies. I get that the USHL doesn't get a lot of hype, but it is a damn good league and has produced some really good players.

Personally I'd take that Matthews/McAvoy/Boeser triumvirate over any league that year. The OHL is close with McDavid/Marner/Chychrun though.

I’m talking about the level of hockey at that time though. Those guys are all big names but I’m talking about the actual talent at that time. Charlie Mcavoy at 16 doesn’t hold a jock strap of Thomas Chabot at 19. Keller at 17 isn’t close to comparable to Barzal at 20. And then yeah you have the cases of underage kids being flat out dominant like Matthews. But for every Matthews level standout in the USHL as a 16 year old is a Mcdavid in the CHL.

I’m not saying big name player don’t play USHL or that they don’t develop as well. I’m saying the league isn’t as good and my reasoning is mostly due to age and the graduation into NCAA. If the likes of Eichel, Matthews and Mcavoy played USHL right up until they turn pro it would absolutely be on par with the CHL. But they don’t.

Just by mentioning big names that played in the league doesn’t mean they were as good at 16/17 as their CHL equivalents were at 19/20. Has nothing to do with whether they turned into NHL stars or not.

If you think 16 year old Matthews, 16 year old Mcavoy and 17 year old Boeser is better than 17 year old Mcdavid, 18 year old Marner and 17 year old Chychrun you’re cracked lol. That’s the age each of those guys were when they began their final seasons in those respective leagues.

 

[Hasbro]

Nobody will ever beat Cream Soda. That was Jose Theodore's burner account.

Not Enough Brewer AINEC

 

[henchman21]

I’m talking about the level of hockey at that time though. Those guys are all big names but I’m talking about the actual talent at that time. Charlie Mcavoy at 16 doesn’t hold a jock strap of Thomas Chabot at 19. Keller at 17 isn’t close to comparable to Barzal at 20. And then yeah you have the cases of underage kids being flat out dominant like Matthews. But for every Matthews level standout in the USHL as a 16 year old is a Mcdavid in the CHL.

I’m not saying big name player don’t play USHL or that they don’t develop as well. I’m saying the league isn’t as good and my reasoning is mostly due to age and the graduation into NCAA. If the likes of Eichel, Matthews and Mcavoy played USHL right up until they turn pro it would absolutely be on par with the CHL. But they don’t.

Just by mentioning big names that played in the league doesn’t mean they were as good at 16/17 as their CHL equivalents were at 19/20. Has nothing to do with whether they turned into NHL stars or not.

If you think 16 year old Matthews, 16 year old Mcavoy and 17 year old Boeser is better than 17 year old Mcdavid, 18 year old Marner and 17 year old Chychrun you’re cracked lol. That’s the age each of those guys were when they began their final seasons in those respective leagues.

Find the 2nd and 3rd best D in the OHL that year... Chychrun is being very generous to the OHL that (and most recent seasons) season. The USHL is as good as 2 of the 3 CHL leagues. OHL is better (and I’ve said as such), but the USHL is right in the mix. Sorry... the CHL just isn’t a huge leap ahead anymore. It was 15 years ago, it isn’t now.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Find the 2nd and 3rd best D in the OHL that year... Chychrun is being very generous to the OHL that (and most recent seasons) season. The USHL is as good as 2 of the 3 CHL leagues. OHL is better (and I’ve said as such), but the USHL is right in the mix. Sorry... the CHL just isn’t a huge leap ahead anymore. It was 15 years ago, it isn’t now.

Which year?

CHL defenseman of the year in 2016 was Ivan Provorov at 18. Played top pairing NHL minutes the next year.

17 was Chabot at 20 years old.

There weren’t any defenseman in the USHL as good as those defenseman. Like not close. I can’t believe you’d even try to argue it.

 

[Tweaky]

Ehhhhh, not even close. Sure I had disagreements in the past, though I have nothing but respect for all the posters you listed here.

That's partly my point, there are disagreements, but usually an undercurrent of respect. And my memory is longer than I like today...

 

[Tweaky]

excellent analysis. how do you feel Kirby Dach sizes up to Dylan Cozens?

I havent seen enough of either to really make the call between them. What I have seen, they are very close. Gut feeling is Cozens a spot or two ahead of Dach, but no real logic behind that feeling yet.

 

[henchman21]

Which year?

CHL defenseman of the year in 2016 was Ivan Provorov at 18. Played top pairing NHL minutes the next year.

17 was Chabot at 20 years old.

There weren’t any defenseman in the USHL as good as those defenseman. Like not close. I can’t believe you’d even try to argue it.

Provorov played in the USHL too... I was talking OHL though. Who was the 2nd best defensemen in the OHL that year? Bigras? The CHL being split into 3 leagues limits their depth. If the CHL was one league, it would be way better, but it is 3 full leagues and the talent is split between many more teams.

IMO you’re putting way too much on the plus one years by specific players and not the random plus 1 and 2 guys who are the actual depth in the leagues.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Provorov played in the USHL too... I was talking OHL though. Who was the 2nd best defensemen in the OHL that year? Bigras. The CHL being split into 3 leagues limits their depth. If the CHL was one league, it would be way better, but it is 3 full leagues and the talent is split between many more teams.

IMO you’re putting way too much on the plus one years by specific players and not the random plus 1 and 2 guys who are the actual depth in the leagues.

Provorov played in the USHL two years prior to winning the CHL defenseman of the year. Again, saying he played in the USHL is not the same as comparing the level he was in the USHL vs the level he was in the dub.

I’m putting an appropriate amount of stock on the age/year’s players played in each respective league.

Of the top 30 NHL rookie scorers last year, 10 spent the prior year in the CHL. That’s 33% of the top rookies in the league. 0 of those players spent the prior year in the USHL. In fact it looks like Tolvanen was the only player who played any NHL hockey last year after spending the prior season in the USHL and he only played 3 games. He’s sent back down to the AHL again now.

A good chunk of CHL players play junior while being a year away from being NHL ready. It appears that Pretty much nobody in the USHL plays in that league NHL ready. At least I haven’t heard many stories of guys walking out of the USHL and playing NHL hockey while there’s probably 20-40 CHL players who do it each year. I mean we’re taking NHL ready talent vs non-NHL ready talent here.

I’m not trying to discredit the USHL. They get crazy talent, but most of the high talent move on and play in better leagues like NCAA Before they reach their draft +1 season.

You’re also right in saying that the CHL being split into 3 leagues waters down the value of each league, but even still you have a solid chunk of guys playing in each individual league who are so good that they jump to the NHL the next year.

 

[kelsier]

NLA is on par with SEL and FEL. Lots of ex NHL players play in the NLA

That's absurd. I have no idea where beyond the world you came up with the illusion? Do you watch any of these leagues? SEL has a slight advantage over FEL where NLA isn't really anywhere close to the other two. They don't have the domestic quality and whatever 'washed up' imports land into Switzerland aren't enough to close up the difference (SEL and FEL both also have players from abroad, including ex NHL'ers). NLA is a league where old vets go play hockey cause they get paid well and the league is nowhere near as competitive as NHL for instance, so they'll get to do what they love with far less pressure attached and actually earn their living in the process.

 

[Murzu]

Foppa lite

 

[Foppberg]

I think no matter your preference towards Kakko or Hughes, if we were to walk away with either one of them, there's no room for complaining. A free elite cornerstone player? Yes please.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Kakko is certainly getting more interesting every game and he has already starting to make a case with some people to contend for 1OA and he might just pull it off. One thing is certain with me...I want one of them and I want the other to end up in the East.

 

[Avsavsavsavsavs]

My opinion is the draft comes down to needs. Hughes/Kakko almost look interchangeable at 1a/1b. You can always argue that the generational center is worth more than the winger, but if we end up with the 1st pick I could see us taking Kakko because of winger needs. (assuming he keeps having an impressive year)

 

[flyfysher]

My opinion is the draft comes down to needs. Hughes/Kakko almost look interchangeable at 1a/1b. You can always argue that the generational center is worth more than the winger, but if we end up with the 1st pick I could see us taking Kakko because of winger needs. (assuming he keeps having an impressive year)

Suppose we get 1OA but we are willing to trade down and take Kakko instead of Hughes. What would you ask for in return?