The 2019-20 Around the League Thread, Pt. VI - Zamboni Goalie Edition

[bandwagonesque]

Can we actually distinguish active and possibly infectious cases from recovered cases through antibody testing? Is it possible the positive tests are from players who were infected months ago and aren't shedding virus any longer?

 

[RandV]

More explosive and shocking allegations against junior hockey in newly filed lawsuit - TheHockeyNews

i think we heard most of carcillo’s allegations already but now there’s a (new?) lawsuit

i remember as a kid in the early 90s reading gretzky’s autobiography and being shocked af about “the shave,” which is where the team holds a teammate down or ties him up and shaves off all his pubic hair.

of that’s something the most famous player in the history of the sport will casually mention in his legacy autobiography can you imagine the kind of stuff players take to the grave?

While you expect there to be some level of hazing I'm curious if other sports have this level of depravity in in the pro/feeder youth leagues.

 

[The Poacher]

While you expect there to be some level of hazing I'm curious if other sports have this level of depravity in in the pro/feeder youth leagues.

Never really saw it in Lacrosse growing up or hockey for that matter. I was a terrible hockey player so played house level. Played a couple seasons of pro Lacrosse a number of season in the WLA.

Lacrosse you play up to Junior level with basically the same kids you grew up with most of the time. For guys playing minor for city’s with no Junior club there’s a draft but you’ve played against your new teammates your whole life so there’s familiarity there. The sport has a pretty small circle compared to hockey. So there’s no real hazing going on because your just with your lifelong buddy’s, or if there is it’s very minor in my experience.

We would have a rookie party every year and there would be plenty of drinking maybe a couple games.

If I remember correctly it was like, 2005ish and there was a memo sent out to all teams regarding hazing and to minimize it as much as possible from each club. I think they even referenced and incident in junior level hockey.

 

[StreetHawk]

While you expect there to be some level of hazing I'm curious if other sports have this level of depravity in in the pro/feeder youth leagues.

Nature of hockey is to send teenagers away to other cities, whereas in other sports, are you really doing that? Lack of parental oversight might be a big thing. Billets who don't know a teenager before they arrive won't really notice a change in their personality whereas a parent has a higher probability of seeing mood changes if something is bothering their child.

 

[RussianRacket]

Yep. The reality of junior hockey is"billets" are usually... just that. They aren't parents. In most cases, they never form any meaningful guardian relationship with the player they are housing. That is usually formed with the coaches and management, who are all too often power tripping control freaks who use tactics that border on abuse.

Junior hockey is a merciless industry that exploits immature teenagers.

 

[RussianRacket]

While you expect there to be some level of hazing I'm curious if other sports have this level of depravity in in the pro/feeder youth leagues.

Stories do pop up every now and then. There was a high school basketball team in Abbotsford in hot water over it not too long ago: No criminal charges in Mouat basketball hazing incident - Abbotsford News

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

While you expect there to be some level of hazing I'm curious if other sports have this level of depravity in in the pro/feeder youth leagues.

Was in U13 youth soccer. Our coach caught us bullying a few players who were ESL transfers. Unfortunately witnessed racism in that period as well. We thought we were in the clear as we were scheduled to play a rather important game a few days later.

Game day arrives and it's pissing rain...my mother declines to go which I attributed to the rain. My dad is driving me there and doesn't say much. We arrive and he drops me off. There's about 2-3 parents there with the coaches and players, and the opposing team is nowhere to be seen.

The coach notifies us that he forfeited the matchup a few days prior and braces us for 2 hours of hell. He takes us to a shitty corner of the park and we do sprints on a soggy field, push-ups and sit-ups in the mud. 10x as worst as a bag skate.

You should have seen how cohesive the team was after that. There was 0 tolerance for any bullshit.

Unfortunately many coaches, teachers or people in authority never take that approach. Some elect to turn a blind-eye to it.

 

[RussianRacket]

Was in U13 youth soccer. Our coach caught us bullying a few players who were ESL transfers. Unfortunately witnessed racism in that period as well. We thought we were in the clear as we were scheduled to play a rather important game a few days later.

Game day arrives and it's pissing rain...my mother declines to go which I attributed to the rain. My dad is driving me there and doesn't say much. We arrive and he drops me off. There's about 2-3 parents there with the coaches and players, and the opposing team is nowhere to be seen.

The coach notifies us that he forfeited the matchup a few days prior and braces us for 2 hours of hell. He takes us to a shitty corner of the park and we do sprints on a soggy field, push-ups and sit-ups in the mud. 10x as worst as a bag skate.

You should have seen how cohesive the team was after that. There was 0 tolerance for any bullshit.

Unfortunately many coaches, teachers or people in authority never take that approach. Some elect to turn a blind-eye to it.

This is an interesting case study. As a teacher who coaches school sports, I can see this also backfiring with the offending players just blaming the bullied ELL transfer players. I know adults who always look to deflect blame, teenagers are of course especially vulnerable to it. You might have taken the lesson as "don't be racist", others might have taken it as "don't get caught being racist"

I think a restorative justice route is better. Huge kudos to that coach for forfeiting the game, however. I stand by that move 100% of the time.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

This is an interesting case study. As a teacher who coaches school sports, I can see this also backfiring with the offending players just blaming the bullied ELL transfer players. I know adults who always look to deflect blame, teenagers are of course especially vulnerable to it. You might have taken the lesson as "don't be racist", others might have taken it as "don't get caught being racist"

I think a restorative justice route is better. Huge kudos to that coach for forfeiting the game, however. I stand by that move 100% of the time.

I still think it was a fantastic approach. Our coach emphasized that the bystanders were very much part of the problem and were being punished to the same degree as the bullies for not intervening. I was a bystander but the majority of us now knew we had to call out the wrongs in the room.

Unfortunately you are right, too many adults take direct aim at the bully or victim which does nothing to remedy the situation. Publicly outing the bully reinforces their "rebellious persona" in front of their friends. Publicly outing the victim and attempting to create sympathy for them makes them more "soft."

Hockey was full of hockey-dads who were ex-jocks or hockey rejects, and the nepotism would make the few bullies untouchable. The same dads would also use derogatory words and would haze players for their performance. Anyone who played midget hockey in the 90's can perhaps remember when we used derogatory or racist verbal lingo without any consideration to others. Does anyone know if this has changed for the better?

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Nature of hockey is to send teenagers away to other cities, whereas in other sports, are you really doing that? Lack of parental oversight might be a big thing. Billets who don't know a teenager before they arrive won't really notice a change in their personality whereas a parent has a higher probability of seeing mood changes if something is bothering their child.

yeah probably this. these kids leave home at 15/16 and move to these small communities where they are gods. their surrogate parents are probably mostly good well intentioned people but they are also likely to be people with a stake in the social/economic hierarchy surrounding the team. (how does swift current happen? exactly that—everyone, host families, teachers, police, all basically worked/work for the broncos.)

it seems insane. i guess at least now you have more big cities vs relatively small communities than in the 80s or 90s but it’s still a lot of small places, which means the implicit and explicit pressure to look the other way and protect the team’s business as usual is probably exponentially magnified.

i’m sure that small community thing happens in lots of sports, esp football in the US, but at least those kids are in their parents’ homes and in the communities they have been a part of since they were (younger) kids.

in college i heard awful stories from kids, mostly boys who went to all boys schools, who went to boarding school, that disgusting cracker game and worse. this isn’t even in the context of team building or organized sports, just 13-17 year old boys who probably shouldn’t have been lord of the flies-ed away from their families so young.

i don’t want to compare this to the more extreme cases of family separation that we hear about like ICE in the US or the awful history of social services taking first nations and indigenous kids in this country but i do think you can probably port some of the research about those traumas and their effects on behaviour to the CHL, esp in the more outposty eras.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Was in U13 youth soccer. Our coach caught us bullying a few players who were ESL transfers. Unfortunately witnessed racism in that period as well. We thought we were in the clear as we were scheduled to play a rather important game a few days later.

Game day arrives and it's pissing rain...my mother declines to go which I attributed to the rain. My dad is driving me there and doesn't say much. We arrive and he drops me off. There's about 2-3 parents there with the coaches and players, and the opposing team is nowhere to be seen.

The coach notifies us that he forfeited the matchup a few days prior and braces us for 2 hours of hell. He takes us to a shitty corner of the park and we do sprints on a soggy field, push-ups and sit-ups in the mud. 10x as worst as a bag skate.

You should have seen how cohesive the team was after that. There was 0 tolerance for any bullshit.

Unfortunately many coaches, teachers or people in authority never take that approach. Some elect to turn a blind-eye to it.

hero

 

[RussianRacket]

i don’t want to compare this to the more extreme cases of family separation that we hear about like ICE in the US or the awful history of social services taking first nations and indigenous kids in this country but i do think you can probably port some of the research about those traumas and their effects on behaviour to the CHL, esp in the more outposty eras.

I see what you are saying and I think you bring up some interesting points. Has there ever been research on boarding school or billeted teenaged athletes and destructive behaviors in adulthood? Thinking along the lines of substance abuse or relationship issues.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

NHL attendance..2019-20

 

[VanillaCoke]

Only 2 Canadian teams in the top 10 is a big yikes

 

[mathonwy]

hero

herro to you too.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Was in U13 youth soccer. Our coach caught us bullying a few players who were ESL transfers. Unfortunately witnessed racism in that period as well.

...

The coach notifies us that he forfeited the matchup a few days prior and braces us for 2 hours of hell. He takes us to a shitty corner of the park and we do sprints on a soggy field, push-ups and sit-ups in the mud. 10x as worst as a bag skate.

You should have seen how cohesive the team was after that. There was 0 tolerance for any bullshit.

hero

herro to you too.

wow

 

[Kryten]

Paging Dr Sutton

Tea with Miss McGill

 

[deckercky]

Only 2 Canadian teams in the top 10 is a big yikes

That's sorted by percentage. Sorting by raw number, Canadian teams are 4 of the top 10.

 

[Frostage]

Can we actually distinguish active and possibly infectious cases from recovered cases through antibody testing? Is it possible the positive tests are from players who were infected months ago and aren't shedding virus any longer?

Yes.

The nasal and throat swabs are for active cases of the virus.


The blood test will look for antibodies.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Great to see Lindblom skating with the Flyers once again. Chemo treatments almost done. He is making an amazing recovery from a rare form of bone cancer. Bone cancer is a tough one to permanently lick.

He won't play this year, but he is confident he will be playing next season.

Fletcher said it was amazing to see him able to have the stamina to go through a 35-40 minute workout. He still showed the type of skill he possesses.

It's great to see this feel good kind of story during these very difficult times in the world today.

 

[tradervik]

Kevin Lowe in the Hall of Fame? Charlie Huddy must be next.

 

[Hansen]

Lmao the league really tried to announce Vancouver as a hub city without those basic health arrangements in place so that they could bully the city into allowing them to do whatever they wanted.

Very happy to cordially invite them to piss off to anywhere else

 

[Aphid Attraction]

Kesler endearing himself to fans again

 

[StreetHawk]

Kesler endearing himself to fans again

If it mattered to the PA, they could have opted out of the CBA and negotiated a new one, but they wanted to see what the NHL TV deals would be first.

If they want to be mad at someone, be mad at themselves. They started the salary cap world at like 54% of HRR didn't they? Then it got cut down to 50%. Now that Covid has hit, they are going to take a big escrow hit.

Any business model that depends on people actually being in a place is getting hit. Hotels, Restaurants, Resorts, airlines, Theme Parks, Movie theatres, etc. How do players think people in those industries are fairing?

 

[Aphid Attraction]

If it mattered to the PA, they could have opted out of the CBA and negotiated a new one, but they wanted to see what the NHL TV deals would be first.

If they want to be mad at someone, be mad at themselves. They started the salary cap world at like 54% of HRR didn't they? Then it got cut down to 50%. Now that Covid has hit, they are going to take a big escrow hit.

Any business model that depends on people actually being in a place is getting hit. Hotels, Restaurants, Resorts, airlines, Theme Parks, Movie theatres, etc. How do players think people in those industries are fairing?

He is completely out of touch with reality, They wanted a percentage, they have many different arguments as to why they are worth multiple millions of dollars, most of them valid but most of them relying on the fact that they are the product that brings in the money. well sorry, Kess you guys are not bringing in any money...

This is the one that gets me.



The reason being that in NZ, the government locked everyone down and then paid everyone's lost wages, at 80%, so that exact thing happened to 75% of my country and I literally did not hear see one single complaint.

Not to mention the daily rising unemployment around the world.