Prospect Info: Thatcher Demko

[forty47seven]

This is essentially completely false. Ben Bishop wasn't the starter and wasn't playing very well. He and Vasilievsky were sharing starts and I think Bishop had fewer starts at the time of the trade. Cernak was ranked as the Kings' 18th best prospect, not on Pronman's top 120, and was only part of the return, the main piece was another goaltender who started more games that season than Bishop with better statistics and who at the time of the trade was leading the league in shutouts. The trade was primarily made so the Lightning to avoid going into cap overage the following season. Yzerman was quoted by several sources as saying so. Also, the Lightning were nearly out of the playoff picture at the deadline that season.

Let's face it. You know Ronning on Empty's implication that Markstrom ought to be traded for younger assets regardless of where the team is at the deadline, and that failing to do so would represent a failure or unusual behaviour in a competent executive, is false. He knows it's false. This is exactly what people mean by toxicity. You're saying something you clearly know isn't true to make some larger point that nearly everyone understands anyway. Why go that far just to have one more grounds to criticize Benning that isn't even real? Aren't the legitimate ones enough? I don't get how it's worth it.

Tampa missed the playoffs by 1 point that year. I highly doubt they were out of playoff picture at the deadline. They were clearly in playoff contention which was your original assertion. They made the move because Bishop was a UFA and Vasilevsky was the young goalie of the future. They had no intention of re-signing him. The situations are really quite similar if Demko continues to play at a high level.

Your telling me Peter Budaj was the main piece and not the high 2nd round pick from two years prior? Right... The career backup wasn't the main piece. And who cares where he ranked on Pronman's list? Lists are always wrong. Tampa correctly identified a former high pick as a good NHL player.

 

[mossey3535]

So we have coming up:

Friday vs WSH
Mon vs FLA
Wed @ LAK

If you count the win vs Detroit this is a four game sequence with 2-3 days in between. I think Demko could have started vs the Wings, then you'd be able to platoon them. As of now I'd think Green would want Marky for WSH, that leaves Demko FLA and Marky LAK ... this is what I'm talking about with Green and goalie starts. By playing Marky against Detroit it basically guarantees that Marky will play 3/4 games, leaving only one for Demko.

Fri @ ANA
Sat @ SJS
Tues vs STL

Here's a back-to-back, again virtually ensures Marky is in for 2/3. This is why it's important to plan these starts ahead of time.

 

[F A N]

Tampa missed the playoffs by 1 point that year. I highly doubt they were out of playoff picture at the deadline. They were clearly in playoff contention which was your original assertion. They made the move because Bishop was a UFA and Vasilevsky was the young goalie of the future. They had no intention of re-signing him. The situations are really quite similar if Demko continues to play at a high level.

Your telling me Peter Budaj was the main piece and not the high 2nd round pick from two years prior? Right... The career backup wasn't the main piece. And who cares where he ranked on Pronman's list? Lists are always wrong. Tampa correctly identified a former high pick as a good NHL player.

The Lightning were 7 points back from a playoff spot at the time of the trade and Stamkos was still out with an injury. Just saying...

 

[Bleach Clean]

Tampa missed the playoffs by 1 point that year. I highly doubt they were out of playoff picture at the deadline. They were clearly in playoff contention which was your original assertion. They made the move because Bishop was a UFA and Vasilevsky was the young goalie of the future. They had no intention of re-signing him. The situations are really quite similar if Demko continues to play at a high level.

Your telling me Peter Budaj was the main piece and not the high 2nd round pick from two years prior? Right... The career backup wasn't the main piece. And who cares where he ranked on Pronman's list? Lists are always wrong. Tampa correctly identified a former high pick as a good NHL player.

47, bandwagon has set up a false premise. Engagement on the topic will likely get you nowhere.

The Canucks are looking back at 4 years outside of the playoffs. Over 320 regular season games. This year, they are looking at an 8 game sample. Close to the playoffs does not even apply. The larger sample suggests what should be done. It's clear. The tell here is that people were saying trade Markstrom last year. So why deal with the false context laid out here? You don't need to.

I still recall Benning talking about the playoff hunt during the year they messed up the Hamhuis trade. He thinks he's in the playoff hunt until he's officially eliminated. That's just him.

 

[StreetHawk]

47, bandwagon has set up a false premise. Engagement on the topic will likely get you nowhere.

The Canucks are looking back at 4 years outside of the playoffs. Over 320 regular season games. This year, they are looking at an 8 game sample. Close to the playoffs does not even apply. The larger sample suggests what should be done. It's clear. The tell here is that people were saying trade Markstrom last year. So why deal with the false context laid out here? You don't need to.

I still recall Benning talking about the playoff hunt during the year they messed up the Hamhuis trade. He thinks he's in the playoff hunt until he's officially eliminated. That's just him.

In typical Canuck's luck/fashion, it's very rare that contracts line up perfectly for them. When they are bad, they don't have guys coming off the books to trade. When they want to make the playoffs, that's when their guys come off the books. If Mitchell had signed a 5 year vs 4 year deal, then they simply wait on him to get healthy in the summer.

But, that is life. And a decision will have to be made. Based on the history of this management group, they won't trade Markstrom. They'd have to be well out of the race before the TDL. And also hope that a playoff team has lost their goaltender.

Cause the teams that would be in the market for Markstrom in the summer are Chicago (both Crawford and Lehner are UFA), Detroit (Howard is UFA, while Bernier has 1 year left), Columbus (both guys are RFA), and see about a couple of other teams. So, if he wants to secure a #1 spot for a few years without having to swatch over his shoulder there are options for him. Of course, I thought the same for J. Faulk and apparently his deal with STL does not include ED protection, so anything is possible. Darling took the money and opportunity in Carolina and it didn't work out for him. But, markstrom is going to be 30 in 2020, so this is his chance for a 5 year contract worth over $25 million total.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

The way Demko’s playing he may take over the starting job soon.

 

[DL44]

The way Demko’s playing he may take over the starting job soon.

That would officially kick off Demko for Calder discussions.

 

[Hoghandler]

It's been flying under the radar, but what a huge improvement Demko has made in handling and moving the puck. It's such a valuable trait, and one that goes a long way in keeping your defense out of the line of fire and helping a team have a strong transition game from their own zone.

Historically the Canucks have had few quality puck moving goalies. Early signs are looking good that this could be a major asset in Demko's arsenal.

 

[StreetHawk]

11 games in and so far it's been a 7 to 4 split. Granted, Demko got in an extra game because Markstrom had to return to Sweden for a few days on a personal matter. Have to see if this type of 55-27 split holds. Demko needed between 25-30 starts this season for his development.

 

[VanJack]

The way Demko’s playing he may take over the starting job soon.

Canucks will be on the horns of a goaltending dilemma soon. Markstrom is a UFA on July 1st.

Do you sign him to an extension with a substantial raise, or do you trade him? Still a chance they could lose him in the expansion draft anyway. But Demko is making his case to be the No.1 goalie, sooner if not later.

 

[DL44]

Canucks will be on the horns of a goaltending dilemma soon. Markstrom is a UFA on July 1st.

Do you sign him to an extension with a substantial raise, or do you trade him? Still a chance they could lose him in the expansion draft anyway. But Demko is making his case to be the No.1 goalie, sooner if not later.

See what it looks like at the all star break or trade deadline.
Too early to predict right now... a 4 gm season and 16 gm career is a lil early.
Plus they are afforded the luxury of time this year... take it.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Canucks will be on the horns of a goaltending dilemma soon. Markstrom is a UFA on July 1st.

Do you sign him to an extension with a substantial raise, or do you trade him? Still a chance they could lose him in the expansion draft anyway. But Demko is making his case to be the No.1 goalie, sooner if not later.

Good question, tough decision.

Canucks will likely give Demko a bit more starts as he’s playing very well, this should give them a better idea if Demko is ready to be a full time starter around February, if he is then the Canucks should first talk to Markstrom and ask him to resign on a short term deal (which he will likely decline) and then look at moving him at the TDL. However with the way the Canucks are playing Benning will likely hold on to Markstrom for the playoffs.

 

[Hoglander]

Yep. Expect Markstrom to walk as a UFA.

Jimbo really puts the ass in asset management.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Is their historical precedent for a team in the playoff race trading away their starting goalie because he was due to be a UFA? The idea that it would be bad asset management if he doesn't trade away Markstrom is nothing but anti-Benning propaganda. If the team is not at least on the bubble group then yes... by all means trade away a goalie with the best value. Sign a cheap UFA backup in the off season. But at the trade deadline in a playoff race. Silly talk.

 

[Siludin]

Is their historical precedent for a team in the playoff race trading away their starting goalie because he was due to be a UFA? The idea that it would be bad asset management if he doesn't trade away Markstrom is nothing but anti-Benning propaganda. If the team is not at least on the bubble group then yes... by all means trade away a goalie with the best value. Sign a cheap UFA backup in the off season. But at the trade deadline in a playoff race. Silly talk.

I make these bold and brave moves in my hockey simulator video game all the time

 

[DL44]

Yep. Expect Markstrom to walk as a UFA.

Jimbo really puts the ass in asset management.

Preemptive insult over something you are imagining may happen. Nice.

I'll try..
Watch him sign him to a Bobrovsky type contract.. he's such an idiot.

 

[MikeK]

Demko needs to play a lot more than he is now if they are seriously thinking about giving him the keys. You can't just throw him to the wolves next season as the #1 with his small body of work to date. He's barely played in the NHL and has never had a stretch of games nor has he faced adversity at the NHL level. They need a lot longer look at him at this level before they can just decide he's the guy to ride. If they did do that and he couldn't handle it than the season is a loss. The goalie is too important a position to roll the dice on.

I just don't see how they can't re-sign Markstrom if they want to be legitimately competitive. The only way Markstrom doesn't get extended is if he's looking for a long term #1 type contract. Otherwise I would be shocked if we don't hear about something come the New Year.

I'm not bagging on Demko. It's just that he's barely played at this level and you can't just treat him as a 35+yr old back up for 2 seasons then decide he's the guy you're going to ride. If he is the future then they better start playing him a lot more and truly see what they have because the clock is ticking and they aren't handling this well, in my opinion.

Cory Schneider played 3 seasons playing 30+ games before they finally saw what they had with him. Goalies need a long look and take a long time to develop. You can't just throw them to the wolves. It almost never ends well.

 

[Phrazer]

You have to protect Demko. And Marky is too valuable to the team at this stage to move.

Best case scenario. We overpay Marky to keep him on a 1yr deal so he's a pending UFA for the expansion draft.

A 1yr 7-8mil deal would be tough if we don't get rid of eriksson. But if it meant not losing one of our goalies to Seattle it would be the best move we could make.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Is their historical precedent for a team in the playoff race trading away their starting goalie because he was due to be a UFA? The idea that it would be bad asset management if he doesn't trade away Markstrom is nothing but anti-Benning propaganda. If the team is not at least on the bubble group then yes... by all means trade away a goalie with the best value. Sign a cheap UFA backup in the off season. But at the trade deadline in a playoff race. Silly talk.

Luckily, we are not at the deadline right now...

They are in the playoff race 8-10 games into the season?

Anti-Benning propaganda for a team that has had one of the worst records over a 300+ game span _with_ this starting goalie...? That’s funny.

What does on the Bubble mean? Define it.

 

[Cancuks]

Smart thing would be to trade Markstrom to the East at the deadline and acquire a cheap veteran on a short contract for a backup for Demko if they're still the playoff picture at that point. Someone like Craig Anderson or Jimmy Howard. But I echo the opinion that Dim Jim will let Markstrom walk for nothing or overpay him on a longterm contract and trade Demko for an underwhelming haul like a 2nd round pick at the draft.

 

[StreetHawk]

Yep. Expect Markstrom to walk as a UFA.

Jimbo really puts the ass in asset management.

The teams that would need goaltending are not contending teams. Chicago has both Crawford and Lehner as UFA. Detroit, Howard is UFA and Bernier only has a year left. Columbus, neither guy is making big money. Anderson is UFA in Ottawa. So, there are options for Markstrom. It would have to be almost a trade and sign immediately if these teams made a trade to secure Markstrom. They'd have to be willing to come in at around $5.5 to $6 mill per for 5/6 years to secure his services before he hits the market.

Other teams, would have to depend on how their goaltending holds up during the season like Buffalo, Colorado, Carolina, Calgary, Edmonton. These would be the teams most likely to trade for Markstrom.

Eastern teams with highly paid #1 guys won't trade for Marky. That rules out Tor, TB, Bos, Mon, Fla, NYR, NYI, Pit, Was. In the West, LA, SJ, Ana, LV, AZ, Dal, Min, Nas, STL, Win are set in goal.

Phi, committed to grooming Hart, so not bringing in a starter with big money and term. NJ, could buyout Schneider as his $6 million cap hit is straight salary in the final 2 years. Carolina, both guys are signed for next season. Can still move off them if they wanted to. Ottawa, Anderson is UFA and old. But, if there are other offers, I'm sure Marky would pass on Ottawa. Buffalo, still have Hutton under contract, and he is playing well. Only if he falls apart would they make a move.

Edmonton could still buyout Koskinen, but would need a cheap backup to offset the buyout. Calgary, have Riitich under contract for another year, but only at $2.75 mill, so not horrible. Likely he would come the other way in a trade along with another piece. Colorado, Grubauer has another year after this one. He'd have to struggle for them to trade for another goalie. He'd likely have to come the other way to give the Canucks a veteran backup.

In recent years, best comparable might be what TB got for Bishop. Cernak, the King's 2015 2nd was the main piece. Got a 7th and a conditional pick, but sent back a 5th. Budej went the other way to give TB a goalie. And that is what Benning would target, a prospect over a draft pick. But, the Canucks scouting on drafted/pro players hasn't been that good.

As always, Benning is thinking his team should make the playoffs. TDL is around 18-20 games left in the season. Don't expect the Canucks to be out of it by then. Demko would need to play lights out, and Green would need to play him to give the front office the confidence that he's their guy moving forward. And the return would have to be ready to help them now, not down the line.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Luckily, we are not at the deadline right now...

They are in the playoff race 8-10 games into the season?

Anti-Benning propaganda for a team that has had one of the worst records over a 300+ game span _with_ this starting goalie...? That’s funny.

What does on the Bubble mean? Define it.

We are not at the deadline. But what difference does that make in regards to the point of the post?

We are in the playoff race now. It starts at game 1 of the season. As of this time, early in the season, we are in the playoffs. We are part of the race. 2 points in game one has the same value as 2 points in any other game during the season. When does the race start for you? When most or all of the teams have already crossed the playoff line? Not much of a race at that point. The race is over when all 16 playoff teams have been determined. But I suspect you know this.

Yes. Anti-Benning propaganda. When people lie or exaggerate a point to make someone or something look worse than it is. But you know this as well.

The bubble teams to me are the teams within 2~3 points of the final playoff bar come the trade dead line. Fair definition?

Now you can answer the question of the post. Is there precedence for a team in the playoff race at any point in a season to trade their starting goalie. The idea was that if Benning does not trade him it is proof of bad asset management. So I can only presume history is awash with such trades. Can you give me your best list? Showing, with regularity, that number 1 goalies are often traded in their UFA year. Let's stay on message this time.

 

[Bleach Clean]

We are not at the deadline. But what difference does that make in regards to the point of the post?

We are in the playoff race now. It starts at game 1 of the season. As of this time, early in the season, we are in the playoffs. We are part of the race. 2 points in game one has the same value as 2 points in any other game during the season. When does the race start for you? When most or all of the teams have already crossed the playoff line? Not much of a race at that point. The race is over when all 16 playoff teams have been determined. But I suspect you know this.

Yes. Anti-Benning propaganda. When people lie or exaggerate a point to make someone or something look worse than it is. But you know this as well.

The bubble teams to me are the teams within 2~3 points of the final playoff bar come the trade dead line. Fair definition?

Now you can answer the question of the post. Is there precedence for a team in the playoff race at any point in a season to trade their starting goalie. The idea was that if Benning does not trade him it is proof of bad asset management. So I can only presume history is awash with such trades. Can you give me your best list? Showing, with regularity, that number 1 goalies are often traded in their UFA year. Let's stay on message this time.

Where to begin?

I can answer your question if we re-define 'in the playoff race'. Your definition of being in the playoff race is frankly, absurd. I'll show you how absurd with a question (bear with me):

- You state the team is in the playoff race right now. Game 1 of the season. Check.
- Then, the race is over when all 16 playoff teams have been determined. Mathematical elimination.
- Mathematical elimination happens post trade deadline.

And so, when does a bad team decide to sell its assets at the deadline? These teams aren't mathematically eliminated at the TDL. So... what happens? They're all still in the playoff race, right?



Where is this lie and exaggeration? This team is 300+ games below the playoff bar. 4 years. They are now 13 games into this season. What in that record is a lie? Teams with that type of record sell expiring contracts, generally, yes or no?

Your position is weak. Expiring contracts are traded all the time. Position doesn't matter. That you are somehow concocting a scenario by which it's impossible for a 4+ years bad team to trade an expiring contract _is_the propaganda. That is the grand lie. It's Benning's perception of what needs to happen, or does not need to happen that is then filtered through the fans... Effectively, it's horseshit.

 

[F A N]

Where to begin?

I can answer your question if we re-define 'in the playoff race'. Your definition of being in the playoff race is frankly, absurd. I'll show you how absurd with a question (bear with me):

- You state the team is in the playoff race right now. Game 1 of the season. Check.
- Then, the race is over when all 16 playoff teams have been determined. Mathematical elimination.
- Mathematical elimination happens post trade deadline.

And so, when does a bad team decide to sell its assets at the deadline? These teams aren't mathematically eliminated at the TDL. So... what happens? They're all still in the playoff race, right?

Oh where to begin?

Poster settinguptheplay is clearly suggesting that the Canucks are in a playoff race because if the season ended right now the Canucks would be in the playoffs. Hence they are in the playoff race. Your spin on what settinguptheplay said may fit your narrative but it's absurd.

The Canucks are currently in a playoff position with games in hand against teams below them. At the time settinguptheplay posted, the Canucks had games in hand against teams ahead of them. If that's not being in a playoff race I don't know what is. Why are you trying to spin this into something else?

Cream rises up to the top and stragglers fall behind. Teams make decisions whether to be buyers or sellers at the deadline usually based on their odds of making the playoffs that year. It's not just about being mathematically eliminated. In pretty much any race there's a point when you're not likely to catch up, but if you're within striking distance you are still in the race if you have the ability to come on strong at the end. Clearly if the Canucks are in a playoff position at the trade deadline, have a relatively healthy lineup, and are like 7-1-2 in the last 10 games they are in a playoff race.

Seriously, most English words have established meanings. You don't get to define what words mean.

 

[Smeagoal]

He's looked real good so far, anyone know if he is starting tonight against SJ?