Tavares in Arizona

[Jamieh]

If we get stable ownership with a new barn under construction, I could see Tavares and a lot of other UFA's coming here because they can raise a family without groupies camped out outside their home and without a throng of media. We have 2 reporters following the team, none on a full time basis. This makes Arizona a team which should be able to attract a Tavares in the future.

There are very few markets(maybe none) where NHL players can't raise their Families in peace. Guys don't strive to be the best in the world at what they do hoping no one will notice. And if he wanted that he could stay right where he is now. The hope is drafting someone here and they stay as the chance of attracting high end free agents is still rather slim.

 

[Summer Rose]

I hope Tavares stays with the Islanders. I feel for their fans.

I completely agree with this. I'd love to have him here, but I really just hope he's still an Islander for many years to come.

 

[Bonsai Tree]

There are very few markets(maybe none) where NHL players can't raise their Families in peace. Guys don't strive to be the best in the world at what they do hoping no one will notice. And if he wanted that he could stay right where he is now. The hope is drafting someone here and they stay as the chance of attracting high end free agents is still rather slim.

I can think of 6. Make it 7.

 

[Jamieh]

I can think of 6. Make it 7.

I get the joke but players living and playing in Canadian Cities have very few issues with privacy and respect for their Families by fans. There are rare occasions where stupid fans step over the line but they get feedback from players and other fans.

 

[cobra427]

There are very few markets(maybe none) where NHL players can't raise their Families in peace. Guys don't strive to be the best in the world at what they do hoping no one will notice. And if he wanted that he could stay right where he is now. The hope is drafting someone here and they stay as the chance of attracting high end free agents is still rather slim.

The only reason attracting UFA's to AZ is tough is because of money. If we could offer the same deal as any other team, Az is an attractive destination. The weather and lifestyle are better then almost anywhere else and players think they can win no matter where they play. The NHL is keeping the team here too, I don't think that is a factor. It is also easier to be in scottsdale and be unknown to most fans. I see players in north scottsdale all the time in restaurants, nobody knows who they are or comes up to them. They blend in as mostly good looking 6 foot 190 pound white guys, a dime a dozen in scottsdale, they just don't really stand out and not enough fans follow hockey in the valley to recognize them.

In the northern cities and Canada, you will get way more attention off the ice which might not be desired. The media scrutiny and coverage is also greater in the major markets, some might not like that. The brutal weather in Canada, except for Vancouver is a major detraction for UFA's. They don't want to live there and their families don't either.

Bottom line is that living and playing here is highly desirable but it comes down to term and money.

 

[Jamieh]

The only reason attracting UFA's to AZ is tough is because of money. If we could offer the same deal as any other team, Az is an attractive destination. The weather and lifestyle are better then almost anywhere else and players think they can win no matter where they play. The NHL is keeping the team here too, I don't think that is a factor. It is also easier to be in scottsdale and be unknown to most fans. I see players in north scottsdale all the time in restaurants, nobody knows who they are or comes up to them. They blend in as mostly good looking 6 foot 190 pound white guys, a dime a dozen in scottsdale, they just don't really stand out and not enough fans follow hockey in the valley to recognize them.

In the northern cities and Canada, you will get way more attention off the ice which might not be desired. The media scrutiny and coverage is also greater in the major markets, some might not like that. The brutal weather in Canada, except for Vancouver is a major detraction for UFA's. They don't want to live there and their families don't either.

Bottom line is that living and playing here is highly desirable but it comes down to term and money.

You make a lot of assumptions about people you simply don't know. Plenty of people find AZ undesirable based simply on not wanting to see folks in their everyday lives with guns strapped on their sides. Many people in the NHL actually spent their whole lives living and breathing hockey and want to live somewhere that has that atmosphere. And some people actually enjoy 4 seasons, even preferring winter!!! For all the desirability of playing and living in AZ there is little proof of players actually looking to sign there?? I suspect, but don't know, that living in obscurity in the Sun is not quite what Tavares will be looking for this summer.

 

[Mosby]

 

[Mosby]

Bottom line is that living and playing here is highly desirable but it comes down to term and money.

Agree with all of this, except one thing you missed is the tax. AZ has one of the lowest tax rates for NHL markets, so this is another point in the Coyotes favor. In some markets, like Montreal, it's close to 60%.

 

[cobra427]

Agree with all of this, except one thing you missed is the tax. AZ has one of the lowest tax rates for NHL markets, so this is another point in the Coyotes favor. In some markets, like Montreal, it's close to 60%.

Good point, I forgot about that.

 

[cobra427]

You make a lot of assumptions about people you simply don't know. Plenty of people find AZ undesirable based simply on not wanting to see folks in their everyday lives with guns strapped on their sides. Many people in the NHL actually spent their whole lives living and breathing hockey and want to live somewhere that has that atmosphere. And some people actually enjoy 4 seasons, even preferring winter!!! For all the desirability of playing and living in AZ there is little proof of players actually looking to sign there?? I suspect, but don't know, that living in obscurity in the Sun is not quite what Tavares will be looking for this summer.

My assumptions are based on the overwhelming majority like 80%+. Not everyone, I agree with you there. I can't remember the last time I saw somebody carrying a gun, that has zero impact on somebody's decision to live in Scottsdale. Players aren't looking to sign here or anywhere else. They don't want to live in Canada unless they are way over paid (Lucic). Everywhere else it is about money/term. We aren't a detraction and living here might be the tie breaker versus a fishbowl (Detroit/Chicago/NYC, etc...) with cold weather.

I'm just hoping there is an outside shot we have the money to sign Tavares. I know its under a 10% chance, but you never know

 

[Mosby]

Not sure of the accuracy of this, but it's a neat little tool that compares the tax rate of each NHL province/state.

Personal Income Tax Rates in NHL Cities | Gavin Group

For example, if both Toronto and Arizona offered Tavares $12M, he'd pay $5.25M tax in AZ and $6.39M in Ontario.

I didn't look through all of the teams but I believe the lowest is Florida (39%) and the highest in Quebec/Montreal (53%).

 

[Jamieh]

Not sure of the accuracy of this, but it's a neat little tool that compares the tax rate of each NHL province/state.

Personal Income Tax Rates in NHL Cities | Gavin Group

For example, if both Toronto and Arizona offered Tavares $12M, he'd pay $5.25M tax in AZ and $6.39M in Ontario.

I didn't look through all of the teams but I believe the lowest is Florida (39%) and the highest in Quebec/Montreal (53%).

It's not 100% accurate as there are other things to consider such as Nationality and where you play your games as taxes in the US have to be paid to each State based on days worked there but it is a decent guide.

 

[Jamieh]

My assumptions are based on the overwhelming majority like 80%+. Not everyone, I agree with you there. I can't remember the last time I saw somebody carrying a gun, that has zero impact on somebody's decision to live in Scottsdale. Players aren't looking to sign here or anywhere else. They don't want to live in Canada unless they are way over paid (Lucic). Everywhere else it is about money/term. We aren't a detraction and living here might be the tie breaker versus a fishbowl (Detroit/Chicago/NYC, etc...) with cold weather.

I'm just hoping there is an outside shot we have the money to sign Tavares. I know its under a 10% chance, but you never know

You think 80% of Nhl'ers want to live in a warm climate with no media attention?? Gonna need some backup data on that? The gun issue is real. I personally love AZ and spend most of my winter there for almost 10 years now but the struggle to get my Wife there each year gets tougher. I see someone with a gun at least twice a week and she missed winter. There are also things like Family that leads people to want to live elsewhere. Believe it or not there are plenty of people in all walks of life who don't like AZ, and that includes hockey players. You probably believe It's 6 months of snow and minus 30 in Canada each year with a two month golf season and no swimming pools. The Sun rarely shines. Truthfully I live in Saskatoon with cold winters but we have 6 months of good weather most years with sun almost everyday, I play golf over 100 times each summer and swim in my outdoor pool from mid Apr to early Oct most years. This year will be an exception.

 

[Mosby]

It's not 100% accurate as there are other things to consider such as Nationality and where you play your games as taxes in the US have to be paid to each State based on days worked there but it is a decent guide.

Good point. An NBA player put his tax filing online and it was ridiculous. For example, he played 4 away games in Dallas, so he had to file Texas state taxes. He played 5 games in Atlanta, so he had file Georgia state taxes. Being an accountant for that would be a nightmare.

 

[cobra427]

You think 80% of Nhl'ers want to live in a warm climate with no media attention?? Gonna need some backup data on that? The gun issue is real. I personally love AZ and spend most of my winter there for almost 10 years now but the struggle to get my Wife there each year gets tougher. I see someone with a gun at least twice a week and she missed winter. There are also things like Family that leads people to want to live elsewhere. Believe it or not there are plenty of people in all walks of life who don't like AZ, and that includes hockey players. You probably believe It's 6 months of snow and minus 30 in Canada each year with a two month golf season and no swimming pools. The Sun rarely shines. Truthfully I live in Saskatoon with cold winters but we have 6 months of good weather most years with sun almost everyday, I play golf over 100 times each summer and swim in my outdoor pool from mid Apr to early Oct most years. This year will be an exception.

Yes, the majority prefer AZ over Canada, not hard to understand why. I have been to Canada many times, nice place, grew up in Chicago. The weather is undesirable. An NHL player and his family can leave the valley and stay in Canada all summer when it is nice. Best of both worlds. I don’t get the gun thing, never see many in north Scottsdale. Your the first person I have ever heard that bothers them in AZ.

 

[Jamieh]

Yes, the majority prefer AZ over Canada, not hard to understand why. I have been to Canada many times, nice place, grew up in Chicago. The weather is undesirable. An NHL player and his family can leave the valley and stay in Canada all summer when it is nice. Best of both worlds. I don’t get the gun thing, never see many in north Scottsdale. Your the first person I have ever heard that bothers them in AZ.

Every year I see an NHL player or two who have moved North going through the happiness of having a backyard rink for their Family, not everyone thinks no winter is best. The gun culture hatred is real whether you have seen or heard it or not. As I said I love AZ but I know many people who want and enjoy having 4 true seasons. I highly doubt NHL players are all that different. Remember a high percentage of NHL players grew up in northern climates and while some will never want to see winter again a significant number just happen to like it.

 

[Summer Rose]

Not sure of the accuracy of this, but it's a neat little tool that compares the tax rate of each NHL province/state.

Personal Income Tax Rates in NHL Cities | Gavin Group

For example, if both Toronto and Arizona offered Tavares $12M, he'd pay $5.25M tax in AZ and $6.39M in Ontario.

I didn't look through all of the teams but I believe the lowest is Florida (39%) and the highest in Quebec/Montreal (53%).

John Tavares Post-Tax Earnings - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

CapFriendly is awesome.

 

[Jakey53]

The only reason attracting UFA's to AZ is tough is because of money. If we could offer the same deal as any other team, Az is an attractive destination. The weather and lifestyle are better then almost anywhere else and players think they can win no matter where they play. The NHL is keeping the team here too, I don't think that is a factor. It is also easier to be in scottsdale and be unknown to most fans. I see players in north scottsdale all the time in restaurants, nobody knows who they are or comes up to them. They blend in as mostly good looking 6 foot 190 pound white guys, a dime a dozen in scottsdale, they just don't really stand out and not enough fans follow hockey in the valley to recognize them.

In the northern cities and Canada, you will get way more attention off the ice which might not be desired. The media scrutiny and coverage is also greater in the major markets, some might not like that. The brutal weather in Canada, except for Vancouver is a major detraction for UFA's. They don't want to live there and their families don't either.

Bottom line is that living and playing here is highly desirable but it comes down to term and money.

Bingo!

 

[Jakey53]

You make a lot of assumptions about people you simply don't know. Plenty of people find AZ undesirable based simply on not wanting to see folks in their everyday lives with guns strapped on their sides. Many people in the NHL actually spent their whole lives living and breathing hockey and want to live somewhere that has that atmosphere. And some people actually enjoy 4 seasons, even preferring winter!!! For all the desirability of playing and living in AZ there is little proof of players actually looking to sign there?? I suspect, but don't know, that living in obscurity in the Sun is not quite what Tavares will be looking for this summer.

And you are telling Cobra he is assuming.

 

[Jakey53]

Not sure of the accuracy of this, but it's a neat little tool that compares the tax rate of each NHL province/state.

Personal Income Tax Rates in NHL Cities | Gavin Group

For example, if both Toronto and Arizona offered Tavares $12M, he'd pay $5.25M tax in AZ and $6.39M in Ontario.

I didn't look through all of the teams but I believe the lowest is Florida (39%) and the highest in Quebec/Montreal (53%).

Don't forget about cost of living. All though these guys make a lot of money, they like nice things at the best price.

 

[Jamieh]

And you are telling Cobra he is assuming.

You might have noticed I keep saying some, not 80% or whatever. There is absolutely zero proof that only money keeps guys from signing in AZ as free agents but there is plenty every year that top end free agents aren't signing there. I would bet my money on winning, stability, and team support kick the poop out of weather on the reasons players want to play somewhere.

 

[Jakey53]

You think 80% of Nhl'ers want to live in a warm climate with no media attention?? Gonna need some backup data on that? The gun issue is real. I personally love AZ and spend most of my winter there for almost 10 years now but the struggle to get my Wife there each year gets tougher. I see someone with a gun at least twice a week and she missed winter. There are also things like Family that leads people to want to live elsewhere. Believe it or not there are plenty of people in all walks of life who don't like AZ, and that includes hockey players. You probably believe It's 6 months of snow and minus 30 in Canada each year with a two month golf season and no swimming pools. The Sun rarely shines. Truthfully I live in Saskatoon with cold winters but we have 6 months of good weather most years with sun almost everyday, I play golf over 100 times each summer and swim in my outdoor pool from mid Apr to early Oct most years. This year will be an exception.

You must have a heated pool. It's hard to swim here in April and Oct. let alone in Canada. I lived in Alberta for 40+ yrs. so don't try to BS me about the weather. IF you see guns at least twice a week you must be living in the worst part of Arizona because I have lived her over 23 yrs. and I don't think I have seen someone with a gun more than five times, and if you play golf a 100 times each summer that would be playing on consecutive days which equal 3 months. I do agree with you on family. There is a reason many players retire here after their career is over, and if some prefer frigid Saskatchewan, so be it. Oh, don't forget to apply Off while playing your 1800 holes of golf. Like they say, you have mosquitoes as big as horse flies. Excuse me while I take a dip in my pool and look at my palm trees.

 

[Jakey53]

Every year I see an NHL player or two who have moved North going through the happiness of having a backyard rink for their Family, not everyone thinks no winter is best. The gun culture hatred is real whether you have seen or heard it or not. As I said I love AZ but I know many people who want and enjoy having 4 true seasons. I highly doubt NHL players are all that different. Remember a high percentage of NHL players grew up in northern climates and while some will never want to see winter again a significant number just happen to like it.

Each to their own.

 

[rt]

I haven’t come back into this thread until now but continue to be shocked that it’s still going. Tavares? 0% chance.

 

[Jakey53]

You might have noticed I keep saying some, not 80% or whatever. There is absolutely zero proof that only money keeps guys from signing in AZ as free agents but there is plenty every year that top end free agents aren't signing there. I would bet my money on winning, stability, and team support kick the poop out of weather on the reasons players want to play somewhere.

Like Cobra said, money and term. Players have a short career so providing for their families is front and center most times.