Sven "Only Needs Love" Baertschi

[GetFocht]

Just knocks Shinkaruk down another peg of he playing in the NHL sooner, since Bart is older more experienced

Becomes a battle of who's going to be the future 1-2 left winger for the Nucks

Similar players, similar size, similar struggles, same position

Which can be seen as a plus, Shinkaruk is a highly competitive player.

 

[Addison Rae]

Brett Connolly is scoring at nearly a 20-goal pace from TB's 4th line. He's an NHL player who looks like a near-sure bet when given better minutes/linemates.

Entirely different from a guy flatlining in the AHL with 2 goals in his last 41 NHL games.

I'd happily have paid that price for Connolly and would be complimenting Benning on that deal if he'd made it.

Ah, so lets mention Baert's lack of goal scoring at the NHL level, but leave out the fact Connolly has 3 assists in his past 66 NHL games. That doesn't scream "about to make it" to me.

Baertschi over the course of his NHL career has posted near top 6 results at even strength. You're one of the people I know that uses the p/60 metric and you understand the standard for 2nd line even strength production is.

You can cherrypick stats all you want, but their NHL state line looks quit similar. Only difference is Connolly is a shoot first player and Baert is a pass first player.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Brett Connolly is scoring at nearly a 20-goal pace from TB's 4th line. He's an NHL player who looks like a near-sure bet when given better minutes/linemates.

Entirely different from a guy flatlining in the AHL with 2 goals in his last 41 NHL games.

I'd happily have paid that price for Connolly and would be complimenting Benning on that deal if he'd made it.

You're being a bit disinenguous here.

Connolly's NHL ppg is 0.24
Baertschi's NHL ppg is 0.42

Yes, Connolly has scored more goals Baertschi has produced as much in overall points.

Again, I think Connolly is the better player which is why he got a better return. But they are somewhat comparable, and this is objective proof the Canucks did not overpay.

 

[Pip]

How have you come to the conclusion that Brett Connolly is a better player, or prospect, than Sven Baertschi?

Connolly is easily better than Baertschi. He is actually playing and contributing in the NHL right now. Sven seems to have taken a step back at the pro level, I don't know if that's because he was disgruntled, or it had to do with his injuries or something. But it's definitely a bad sign.

 

[Ozone]

Good article on Sven:

WHEN DID THE FLAMES GO WRONG WITH SVEN BAERTSCHI?

http://flamesnation.ca/2015/3/3/when-did-the-flames-go-wrong-with-sven-baertschi?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[CanaFan]

Connolly is easily better than Baertschi. He is actually playing and contributing in the NHL right now. Sven seems to have taken a step back at the pro level, I don't know if that's because he was disgruntled, or it had to do with his injuries or something. But it's definitely a bad sign.

Playing and contributing at the NHL level can be as much a function of the coach and team expectations as the player. If you read some of Burke's quotes about Baertschi, it is obvious that he expected a 3-zone player, something which Baertschi admittedly is not (yet). We've seen Kassian scratched and given limited minutes for the exact same thing, yet this board is filled with scathing assessments of WD for doing so. Tampa seems to give more freedom to players to play a skilled, speed game than Calgary does. So I don't know that it says as much about the underlying players as it does their respective teams.

From a production rate standpoint, Baertschi is right up their with Connolly. 1.78pts/60 for Baertschi, 1.62pts/60 for Connolly. Considering Tampa also has the best GF rate in the league (3.28) compared to Calgary's middling 2.82, I'd suggest Baertschi has done well in the limited opportunities he has had.

Does this mean there aren't issues to remedy? For sure, otherwise he isn't available for a trade. But to flat out say that Connolly is worth 2 seconds while Baertschi isn't worth 1 is just plain wrong.

 

[IntangiBo]

Svensanity better stick!

 

[Barney Gumble]

Playing and contributing at the NHL level can be as much a function of the coach and team expectations as the player. If you read some of Burke's quotes about Baertschi, it is obvious that he expected a 3-zone player, something which Baertschi admittedly is not (yet). We've seen Kassian scratched and given limited minutes for the exact same thing, yet this board is filled with scathing assessments of WD for doing so.

Therein lies the rub....will Willie let Baertschi play on the ice vs the stands. It's not like the situation of Vey - where the lack of centers (due to injuries) gave him an immunity idol.

 

[Pip]

That article was certainly interesting. Gives a lot of context to his production in both leagues.

But to flat out say that Connolly is worth 2 seconds while Baertschi isn't worth 1 is just plain wrong.

I don't believe I said that, all I said was that Connolly was a better player.

 

[dps]

Even if Benning did overpay a bit, perhaps that was the price of dealing within the division? I'm hosently surprised by how much value some people put into a 2nd.

As for the tweet from Calgary management being used as evidence that Benning overpaid, to me it's more telling of a posters bias that they are willing to put so much trust in the words of Calgary's management over Benning.

 

[MISC*]

Jensen, Sven and Hunter.

Long list of o-first players treading water in the minors. Very Canuck like.

 

[Diamonddog01]

Even if Benning did overpay a bit, perhaps that was the price of dealing within the division? I'm hosently surprised by how much value some people put into a 2nd.

As for the tweet from Calgary management being used as evidence that Benning overpaid, to me it's more telling of a posters bias that they are willing to put so much trust in the words of Calgary's management over Benning.

He didn't. He paid market value or slightly below.

 

[GetFocht]

What's also stupid is during a trade, the seller is going to take the highest bidder. It's not like Brad Trevling is going to take the second best offer

 

[Zarpan]

anyway the point is that players like baertschi are not worth 2nd round picks. teams weren't even that willing to give a 3rd round pick for a 6th overall pick that has the same issues baertschi apparently has.

Filatov was traded for the #66 pick. The 2nd round pick will probably end up in the late 40s. Filatov also produced less than Baertschi in the two seasons leading up to the trade, both at the AHL and NHL level. I think factoring in time on ice, Baertschi's recent NHL production rate is about 30% more than Filatov's.

There's also the KHL factor. So, given all that, if Filatov was worth a high 3rd, certainly a case can be made that Baertschi is worth a mid 2nd.

 

[Zaddy91]

If you ignore the terrible first 7 games of the season he had, he has 25 points in 29 games.

Yea i donno how jake patterson and sekereas dont like the trade. Probably trying to stir up cobtraversy

 

[Pip]

What's also stupid is during a trade, the seller is going to take the highest bidder. It's not like Brad Trevling is going to take the second best offer

The issue is the "by far the best" or whatever. Yeah, it's probably not best to read too much into the comments, but it does support this trend of the Canucks seemingly bidding against themselves and paying premiums on players when we are in a very strong negotiating position.

 

[CanaFan]

That article was certainly interesting. Gives a lot of context to his production in both leagues.



I don't believe I said that, all I said was that Connolly was a better player.

Fair enough, that comment was more general and not directed at you (I shouldn't have included it in my response to you). In general though it is debatable how much better a player Connolly is and on a value basis, is very unlikely a whole +2nd round pick better. Thus, IMO, Boston either over-paid or Benning found good value.

 

[xtra]

Yea i donno how jake patterson and sekereas dont like the trade. Probably trying to stir up cobtraversy

Paterson also thinks hodgson was a fast player. His lack of knowledge has made me turn of 1040 too often

 

[MS]

Ah, so lets mention Baert's lack of goal scoring at the NHL level, but leave out the fact Connolly has 3 assists in his past 66 NHL games. That doesn't scream "about to make it" to me.

Baertschi over the course of his NHL career has posted near top 6 results at even strength. You're one of the people I know that uses the p/60 metric and you understand the standard for 2nd line even strength production is.

You can cherrypick stats all you want, but their NHL state line looks quit similar. Only difference is Connolly is a shoot first player and Baert is a pass first player.

You're being a bit disinenguous here.

Connolly's NHL ppg is 0.24
Baertschi's NHL ppg is 0.42

Yes, Connolly has scored more goals Baertschi has produced as much in overall points.

Again, I think Connolly is the better player which is why he got a better return. But they are somewhat comparable, and this is objective proof the Canucks did not overpay.

They are trending completely opposite directions.

Baertschi had some NHL blips 3 years ago and for the last 2 years has flatlined and been poor. Connolly is showing himself to be an NHL player and producing well with limited opportunites.

 

[Yung Rotini]

Love Sven for us as we no can

 

[me2]

Ah, so lets mention Baert's lack of goal scoring at the NHL level, but leave out the fact Connolly has 3 assists in his past 66 NHL games. That doesn't scream "about to make it" to me.

Baertschi over the course of his NHL career has posted near top 6 results at even strength. You're one of the people I know that uses the p/60 metric and you understand the standard for 2nd line even strength production is.

You can cherrypick stats all you want, but their NHL state line looks quit similar. Only difference is Connolly is a shoot first player and Baert is a pass first player.

The difference is Connolly is bigger, better effort level and better defensively. He has a bottom 6 role if he flops as a top 6.

Sven has more skill but lacks that fallback. Linden Vey or Shinkaruk probably have more skill than Virtanen but physical ability/size and commitment are hugely important too.

 

[Addison Rae]

They are trending completely opposite directions.

Baertschi had some NHL blips 3 years ago and for the last 2 years has flatlined and been poor. Connolly is showing himself to be an NHL player and producing well with limited opportunites.

But, Baertschi and Connolly has produced similar NHL results the past 2 seasons, like I suggested in the post you quoted.

 

[Addison Rae]

The difference is Connolly is bigger, better effort level and better defensively. He has a bottom 6 role if he flops as a top 6.

Sven has more skill but lacks that fallback.

Baertschi was notorious for being a hard worker in junior, HockeyDB suggests that Baertschi is heavier than Connolly.

 

[Addison Rae]

I'm assuming that you guys also though the Wild overpaid for Nino

 

[VanCanucks53]

No doubt he is extremely skilled but I'm going to be cautiously optimistic when it comes to expectations of his time here. Flames were willing to trade him to a division rival which is a pretty big red flag and he's obviously hit a wall in his development. I hope Green will be able to get him on the right track again. It would be a tremendous boost for our prospect pool if he panned out.