Sven "Only Needs Love" Baertschi

[ziploc]

He has all the skill in the world. He just needs to be consistent.

As for who he should play with, the notion that he could be on a scoring third line with Vey and someone next year is pretty promising. Higgins / Bonino / Vrbata is a good two-way second line that hopefully comes out ahead of the opposition, as is the Sedin line. Whether you put Burrows or Kassian with Vey and Baertschi, you've got a line that can hopefully feast on the soft underbelly of teams that may not have the depth to deal with the skill and offensive hockey sense of that line.

A line of Baertschi / Vey / Kassian would get feasted on. It would be offensively interesting, but a defensive nightmare.

I would think Baertschi might get slotted in alongside Bonino, maybe with Vrbata on the right wing. Keep Kassian with the Twins, Burrows and Higgins with Matthias/Richardson/Vey and then Horvat with Hansen and Virtanen/Kenins.

But that is all extremely speculative, obviously. Lots can change.

 

[684]

Baertschi needs to be on a line that can drive the offense through him but is capable defensively.

No way you put him with Vey or Kassian.

Confidence and the mental game seems to be the biggest issue with him. Don't put the kid at a disadvantage by playing him with defensive liabilities. Have him on a line where he can focus on the offense and be protected defensively.

 

[Ernie]

Vey and Baertschi should probably not be in the lineup at the same time.

 

[ARSix]

A line of Baertschi / Vey / Kassian would get feasted on. It would be offensively interesting, but a defensive nightmare.

This is basically just conjecture on your part as a result of your intuitive sense of who is or isn't "good in their own end". If that's the case, anyone you put with Vey is going to get "feasted on". The point of a depth line like that is to have it on the ice against the other sides' unskilled depth, increasing the chance that these guys with high-end finishing ability will get good looks. In other words, it might be a high event line, but when those chances favour the Canucks you've got scorers taking them, and when they favour the opponents, they've got pluggers. It's a sound bet.

I would think Baertschi might get slotted in alongside Bonino, maybe with Vrbata on the right wing. Keep Kassian with the Twins, Burrows and Higgins with Matthias/Richardson/Vey and then Horvat with Hansen and Virtanen/Kenins.

But that is all extremely speculative, obviously. Lots can change.

This could all also happen, except that penciling Virtanen into the lineup at this stage is in my view totally asinine. He was a young player in his draft year, he should take at least one more year before making the show if not two. I know everyone wants to see what their new toy can do, but the answer at this stage is likely not very much. Maybe he really demolishes training camp and forces his way into opening night, but it's a longshot.

 

[Barney Gumble]

A line of Baertschi / Vey / Kassian would get feasted on. It would be offensively interesting, but a defensive nightmare.

Might be an interesting core for the 2nd unit power play though.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

I really like the potential of this trade. What curbs my enthusiasm a bit is the fact that Calgary, who is now seemingly run by competent management for the first time in years, was willing to trade him to a division rivalry. Gives me the sense that they really don't believe he'll ever reach his potential.

Getting a third round pick from a non playoff team in the east would have been a lot less riskier and wouldn't have made that much of a difference in how high that pick was. Not to say there were any buyers for sure; but I'm sure they could have gotten a similar deal from a team not in their division.

 

[Ernie]

I don't know about that competent management. The way that they've used Baertschi doesn't indicate that to me. It kind of screams of Burke being his usual bull headed self.

 

[drax0s]

Am I the only one who wants to see what Baertschi and McCaan could do?
McCaan seems like he's tailor made for Baertschi. A defensively sound C who also has speed with a pretty lethal shot wrist-shot.

 

[alternate]

I predict Martin St. Louis V2.0. Not style wise but smallish skilled winger Calgary didn't know what to do with who gets a second chance and goes on to have a MVP/HOF career before being moved for a great return in the twilight of his career.

Anything less and we should have kept the 2nd.

 

[Wisp]

I don't know about that competent management. The way that they've used Baertschi doesn't indicate that to me. It kind of screams of Burke being his usual bull headed self.

Yeah this strikes me as typical Burke belligerence. I'm really not bothered with the idea that Burke thinks this player has no compete. Burke loved, loved Dustin Penner, too and the guy is a fringe forward in this league now.

The only question is if Baertschi can recover from this treatment. I'm optimistic. Not too long ago the Senators took a cheap flyer on one Kyle Turris and were rewarded.

(granted, they also took a flyer on one Nikita Filatov and that didn't pan out)

 

[PM]

Vey and Baertschi should probably not be in the lineup at the same time.

Agreed. I think the acquisition of Baertschi makes Vey completely redundant. He just doesn't have the build to be a NHL centre and we have better options on the wing. Wasn't Baertschi known as a bit of a hard-nosed winger who would drive the net before his concussion? Hopefully he can regain that form if it is indeed true.

 

[Wisp]

Agreed. I think the acquisition of Baertschi makes Vey completely redundant. He just doesn't have the build to be a NHL centre and we have better options on the wing. Wasn't Baertschi known as a bit of a hard-nosed winger who would drive the net before his concussion? Hopefully he can regain that form if it is indeed true.

no. he was feisty, but was known for his supreme skill

I predict Martin St. Louis V2.0. Not style wise but smallish skilled winger Calgary didn't know what to do with who gets a second chance and goes on to have a MVP/HOF career before being moved for a great return in the twilight of his career.

Anything less and we should have kept the 2nd.

we'd be so lucky. I kept saying "when is someone going to trade us a Markus Naslund to fast pace this rebuild?" Baertschi could be the guy.

 

[SpaceCowboy]

I predict Martin St. Louis V2.0. Not style wise but smallish skilled winger Calgary didn't know what to do with who gets a second chance and goes on to have a MVP/HOF career before being moved for a great return in the twilight of his career.

Anything less and we should have kept the 2nd.

Don't give the fans the fuel they need to disappoint themselves!!!!

You're making me have hope you beautiful sonofagun.

 

[God]

Yeah this strikes me as typical Burke belligerence. I'm really not bothered with the idea that Burke thinks this player has no compete. Burke loved, loved Dustin Penner, too and the guy is a fringe forward in this league now.

The only question is if Baertschi can recover from this treatment. I'm optimistic. Not too long ago the Senators took a cheap flyer on one Kyle Turris and were rewarded.

(granted, they also took a flyer on one Nikita Filatov and that didn't pan out)

filatov is a fun comparison. former high first round pick. somewhat comparable AHL numbers. struggled to play a three zone game in the NHL, not good enough to outscore his deficiencies. traded when he was 21 to the senators for a 3rd round pick.

well now isn't that something.

(also saying penner is a fringe forward now is a bit disingenuous when he was pretty decent for most of the last 7 years post burke)

 

[Tobi Wan Kenobi]

Am I the only one who wants to see what Baertschi and McCaan could do?
McCaan seems like he's tailor made for Baertschi. A defensively sound C who also has speed with a pretty lethal shot wrist-shot.

Yeah:

Baertschi McCann Virtanen
Kenins Horvat Kassian
Shinkaruk Gaunce/Cassels

Some solid forward depth.

 

[CanaFan]

filatov is a fun comparison. former high first round pick. somewhat comparable AHL numbers. struggled to play a three zone game in the NHL, not good enough to outscore his deficiencies. traded when he was 21 to the senators for a 3rd round pick.

well now isn't that something.

(also saying penner is a fringe forward now is a bit disingenuous when he was pretty decent for most of the last 7 years post burke)

Those examples - Filatov and Turris - merely confirm that there is risk and upside with these types of trades. No one is saying there is no risk - very obviously Baertschi may not pan out - but I do hear lots of people saying that he has only limited upside, otherwise why would Calgary trade him.

Which is a bit ironic, considering how close Benning came to trading Kassian and how much these boards were lamenting the loss of his potentially high upside.

 

[Lundface*]

Those examples - Filatov and Turris - merely confirm that there is risk and upside with these types of trades. No one is saying there is no risk - very obviously Baertschi may not pan out - but I do hear lots of people saying that he has only limited upside, otherwise why would Calgary trade him.

Which is a bit ironic, considering how close Benning came to trading Kassian and how much these boards were lamenting the loss of his potentially high upside.

How can you throw out this comparable?

If Van just got a player who put up 10 points in his last 10 NHL games they'd be ecstatic. Comparing upside with regards to Kassian and Baertschi is just foolish.

Baertschi so far is tracking similar to someone like Vey (I like Baertschi a lot more). Yes he's younger, and has more upside, but after seeing how poor Vey has been, it's hard not blindly put faith in every move Benning makes.

Baertschi is the first one of his givenupbyotherfranchise gamble's I like. Neither Vey nor Clendening have inspired any confidence, and it appears the team will willing to use these guys over much better options.

 

[God]

Those examples - Filatov and Turris - merely confirm that there is risk and upside with these types of trades. No one is saying there is no risk - very obviously Baertschi may not pan out - but I do hear lots of people saying that he has only limited upside, otherwise why would Calgary trade him.

Which is a bit ironic, considering how close Benning came to trading Kassian and how much these boards were lamenting the loss of his potentially high upside.

um turris was traded for rundblad (a highly regarded prospect at the time) and a 2nd round pick. filatov was traded for a 3rd round pick.

it is literally no surprise that turris panned out and filatov didn't. turris wasn't a "project". he looked very good the season before the contract dispute.



anyway the point is that players like baertschi are not worth 2nd round picks. teams weren't even that willing to give a 3rd round pick for a 6th overall pick that has the same issues baertschi apparently has.

 

[Addison Rae]

anyway the point is that players like baertschi are not worth 2nd round picks. teams weren't even that willing to give a 3rd round pick for a 6th overall pick that has the same issues baertschi apparently has.

Brett Connolly? Pretty sure he returned 2 seconds.

 

[CanaFan]

um turris was traded for rundblad (a highly regarded prospect at the time) and a 2nd round pick. filatov was traded for a 3rd round pick.

it is literally no surprise that turris panned out and filatov didn't. turris wasn't a "project". he looked very good the season before the contract dispute.



anyway the point is that players like baertschi are not worth 2nd round picks. teams weren't even that willing to give a 3rd round pick for a 6th overall pick that has the same issues baertschi apparently has.

What are you talking about? Turris was absolutely the poster boy for a comparable trade. High draft pick, huge expectations from fans and team, slow progression at both the NHL and AHL level, contract issues leading to a disgruntled player, traded at 22 or 4 years after his draft. The amount he was traded for doesn't nullify the comparison, as it only speaks to his pedigree (former 3OA), not the similar scenario of being a reclamation project with a high risk/reward. The higher price was comensurate with both the risk and reward for Turris, just as it is for Baertschi (lower price, lower upside).

Just cause a comparable doesn't suit your view doesn't mean you can discard it.

 

[Addison Rae]

Say Nik Ehlers 3 years from now puts up the same results as Sven in the AHL and NHL (aren't bad when you compare them to teammates) would you not trade a 2nd rounder for him? Because I know I would.

 

[Diamonddog01]

This whole 'Benning overpays' argument is circular reasoning. Certain posters have started with a debatable and subjective premise or that Benning overpays, now every transaction the team makes is somehow 'evidence' for this highly opinionated viewpoint.

Instead of taking disgruntled poster's opinions, or even the comments of a rival GM, I think the most logical approach to assess as to whether we overpaid or not is to compare it to similar deals, made at the exact same time.

And for that we have Connnolly, who returned two 2nds. Given that he's a bit better player, and in a similar situation, this is objective evidence that we did not in fact overpay - rather we paid market value (or even slightly below it).

 

[ARSix]

How have you come to the conclusion that Brett Connolly is a better player, or prospect, than Sven Baertschi?

 

[MS]

Brett Connolly? Pretty sure he returned 2 seconds.

Brett Connolly is scoring at nearly a 20-goal pace from TB's 4th line. He's an NHL player who looks like a near-sure bet when given better minutes/linemates.

Entirely different from a guy flatlining in the AHL with 2 goals in his last 41 NHL games.

I'd happily have paid that price for Connolly and would be complimenting Benning on that deal if he'd made it.

 

[hackey]

Just knocks Shinkaruk down another peg of he playing in the NHL sooner, since Bart is older more experienced

Becomes a battle of who's going to be the future 1-2 left winger for the Nucks

Similar players, similar size, similar struggles, same position