TV: Survivor: Winners at War - Season Discussion Thread

spintheblackcircle

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Sarah's speech might hold a little more weight if she hadn't just totally screwed Ben, Tony and herself with horrible game play.

6 straight winners are men, so I can guess that fact would be a topic among the female players.
 
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Apex Predator

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For you Australian Survivor fans who had the better performance this year? Tony or Australian winner? Not sure how to use spoilers tags so didn’t want to spoil the winner
 

spintheblackcircle

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Natalie Anderson on 'Survivor' votes she's surprised she didn't get

Interview with Natalie

"Sarah was just acting to make everybody want to vote for Tony. So I was just sitting there like, "Oh my God, barf." And so I haven't made peace with the decision to not make fire, because I know if I went to the end with Sarah and Michelle, I would have totally won. That is a Tribal I would have walked away thinking like, "All right, yeah. Pretty much in the bag, Natalie." So, I don't know if I'm going to be able to get over it. I don't know."

"We would fall asleep every night and rats would be biting us. We'd wake up to rats biting our fingers and our toes. And how much we ate. It was literally stabbing, sleeping in the dirt, rats biting us every night. If anything, I wish that they had time to show the extreme conditions of the Edge because it was so difficult."
 

Peasy

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Sarah's speech might hold a little more weight if she hadn't just totally screwed Ben, Tony and herself with horrible game play.

6 straight winners are men, so I can guess that fact would be a topic among the female players.
What horrible gameplay?

Also only 3 female winnners since season 25. All three of those winners made final 4.
 
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SouthGeorge

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What horrible gameplay?

Also only 3 female winnners since season 25. All three of those winners made final 4.

If she stuck to the gameplan, Michelle is out. Sarah is such a poser. I knew once Ben gave her the greenlight she was going to do it to pad her resume to try to beat Tony. She's such a little weasel. Then crying and making two tribals about her. So annoying. I respect Nat and Michelle's game way more than hers.

She almost blew Tony's game up because she "had her finger on the girls/game" and didn't listen to Tony.
 
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SouthGeorge

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Natalie Anderson on 'Survivor' votes she's surprised she didn't get

Interview with Natalie

"Sarah was just acting to make everybody want to vote for Tony. So I was just sitting there like, "Oh my God, barf." And so I haven't made peace with the decision to not make fire, because I know if I went to the end with Sarah and Michelle, I would have totally won. That is a Tribal I would have walked away thinking like, "All right, yeah. Pretty much in the bag, Natalie." So, I don't know if I'm going to be able to get over it. I don't know."

"We would fall asleep every night and rats would be biting us. We'd wake up to rats biting our fingers and our toes. And how much we ate. It was literally stabbing, sleeping in the dirt, rats biting us every night. If anything, I wish that they had time to show the extreme conditions of the Edge because it was so difficult."

I respect Nats game but getting voted out 1st... Top 2-3 is the best she deserves. You don't deserve to win especially with not taking Tony to fire. A little annoying how she had some idol that lasted forever. Then Tony looks all night and she wakes up and finds it. They definitely help EOE players get to the end so they need to be done with it.
 

Peasy

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If she stuck to the gameplan, Michelle is out. Sarah is such a poser. I knew once Ben gave her the greenlight she was going to do it to pad her resume to try to beat Tony. She's such a little weasel. Then crying and making two tribals about her. So annoying. I respect Nat and Michelle's game way more than hers.

She almost blew Tony's game up because she "had her finger on the girls/game" and didn't listen to Tony.
That wasn't just Sarah. Ben was also saying Nat didn't have an idol and wanted to vote her out. Don't put the blame all on her...

I felt that all of Sarah's comments about how women are perceived in this game, and how they have been in the past is completely valid. Your comment is displaying the bias that she brought up.
 

SouthGeorge

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Tony is the King of Survivor. I'm surprised Rob didn't vote against him in spite.

I feel bad for Michelle. She came out and played a really good game and didn't get a vote. Weaker season, she probably wins again. I saw somebody bring up a good point. She got a lot of fire tokens from people voted out but didn't get their vote.
 
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spintheblackcircle

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That wasn't just Sarah. Ben was also saying Nat didn't have an idol and wanted to vote her out. Don't put the blame all on her...

I felt that all of Sarah's comments about how women are perceived in this game, and how they have been in the past is completely valid. Your comment is displaying the bias that she brought up.

Everyone agrees Ben played like shit. Saying Sarah did too isn't sexism. It's having eyes and treating her equally to Ben.
 

spintheblackcircle

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I feel bad for Michelle. She came out and played a really good game and didn't get a vote. Weaker season, she probably wins again. I saw somebody bring up a good point. She got a lot of fire tokens from people voted out but didn't get their vote.

Michelle played SO much better than Sarah. Any anti-female bias is being showed towards HER, not Sarah.
 

SouthGeorge

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That wasn't just Sarah. Ben was also saying Nat didn't have an idol and wanted to vote her out. Don't put the blame all on her...

I felt that all of Sarah's comments about how women are perceived in this game, and how they have been in the past is completely valid. Your comment is displaying the bias that she brought up.

Oh I agree with her about that and life in general. Why did that even come up again? Nat pulling on her strings to get her to turn on Tony. I'm sorry but Sarah has been really annoying second half of this season.
 

TheBeastCoast

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That wasn't just Sarah. Ben was also saying Nat didn't have an idol and wanted to vote her out. Don't put the blame all on her...

I felt that all of Sarah's comments about how women are perceived in this game, and how they have been in the past is completely valid. Your comment is displaying the bias that she brought up.
They may have been valid but what gameplay was she not credited with that she should have been through the season? Just because the jury thought Tony was playing a better game(he was) does not mean there is a gender bias behind that. She used it as a gameplay tool plain and simple. There is zero evidence that we have seen that Sara played a better or hell even equal game to Tony and was held back by being a female. I mean it was a smart play for her personally to give herself a shot if she came up against Tony at the end...it doesn't make it true in this specific instance just because she said it.
 

TheBeastCoast

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Also the interview where she said she knew Natalie didn't have an idol because she bonded with her so much in the one day they spent together made me groan audibly to the point I was hoping it was her that would get the cut at that tribal lol
 

Peasy

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They may have been valid but what gameplay was she not credited with that she should have been through the season? Just because the jury thought Tony was playing a better game(he was) does not mean there is a gender bias behind that. She used it as a gameplay tool plain and simple. There is zero evidence that we have seen that Sara played a better or hell even equal game to Tony and was held back by being a female. I mean it was a smart play for her personally to give herself a shot if she came up against Tony at the end...it doesn't make it true in this specific instance just because she said it.
I never said that Sarah is a better player than Tony, I was just mentioning that I agree that clear biases exist in survivor.

Take Tony's spy nest for example. He gets all the credit and fame for it yet that never works, or is practical without Sarah doing the majority of the work. Yet all we hear is about how great of an idea this is from Tony. Sarah and Tony played this game as one for practically the entire game (only really time that didn't happen was the Sophie vote) so I can understand why Sarah would get frustrated when she finds out that Tony is getting all of the credit.

I thought she did a great job explaining herself in this interview.

Let's talk about your big speech at the final six about the gender bias. Do you feel there were people on that jury who had spent a lot of time on the Edge that weren't giving you the credit you deserve? And if so, do you feel that was due to that sort of alpha dog mentality that can sometimes permeate this show?
Yeah, absolutely. I think where it really clicked was when we swapped tribes and Rob really didn't treat Sophie and I the best, which was fine. He could play the game however he wants, but when we're sitting at Tribal Council, the night that we voted him out, the speech he's giving me — I know he had written my name down because both Adam and Ben told me, and he's basically talking to me saying it's a numbers game and you're just not right by the numbers, but it's just a game and game respects game.

He's basically giving me a speech of, "I'm writing your name tonight, but you need to respect me. And when I'm sitting in the final three, you need to vote for me." So he gets voted out, and then when Natalie comes back in, she tells me that all Rob had done over at the Edge was say horrible things about me to everybody. And this was verified after the season. And even Parvati — and I never played with Parvati — and I'm sitting there going, "What is this all about?"

It's really not fair. So when it comes down to it, I am a woman, and Rob would rather get beat by a man than a woman, but he would have expected me to vote for him. But I guarantee you, he would have never voted for me. So that's where that speech starts coming from. When Dom and Wendell played, they split credit that entire season of Ghost Island. What did Dom and Wendell do different than what Tony and I did? But why don't we get the split credit?

To say that I would beat Tony, like “Sarah's delusional, she can't be Tony.” No, if I'm sitting next to Tony and it's just me and Tony, no, I don't beat him. He played a great game. He won four immunities. But guess what? It's not a final two. It's a final three. And I can beat Tony in a final three if we're sitting there with the right people. Because if I'm not sitting just next to him, I'm taking votes away from him that he would typically get. Everybody likes to Monday Morning Quarterback, but at the end of the day, we did the same thing that you see a lot of male duos do, but I really got dragged to the mud on it and zero credit, which is amazing to me, especially from the people that treated me that way. I guess the reputation that they have really disappointed me that they would behave that way.

Sarah Lacina explains origin of her gender bias 'Survivor' speech
 

Apex Predator

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I respect Nats game but getting voted out 1st... Top 2-3 is the best she deserves. You don't deserve to win especially with not taking Tony to fire. A little annoying how she had some idol that lasted forever. Then Tony looks all night and she wakes up and finds it. They definitely help EOE players get to the end so they need to be done with it.


I read a comment on reddit saying Chris underwood did so much more in his limited time back than Natalie. It’s so true I didn’t like him as the winner but he did a lot more to prove it to the jury.
 
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TheBeastCoast

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I never said that Sarah is a better player than Tony, I was just mentioning that I agree that clear biases exist in survivor.

Take Tony's spy nest for example. He gets all the credit and fame for it yet that never works, or is practical without Sarah doing the majority of the work. Yet all we hear is about how great of an idea this is from Tony. Sarah and Tony played this game as one for practically the entire game (only really time that didn't happen was the Sophie vote) so I can understand why Sarah would get frustrated when she finds out that Tony is getting all of the credit.

I thought she did a great job explaining herself in this interview.



Sarah Lacina explains origin of her gender bias 'Survivor' speech
Right but I am not saying it does or does not exist. I do not think it held her back in this game. You can make the case that it is a thing in general sure. The speech at the tribal was a fully calculated game move after finding out that the jury was going to vote for Tony. Votes that Tony fully deserved. I don't think Sara played a bad game(she did make bad moves and had some bad reads near the end). I think she played a really good game. But Tony was nearly flawless and the jury wanting to vote for him is not some inherent gender bias.
 

Peasy

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Right but I am not saying it does or does not exist. I do not think it held her back in this game. You can make the case that it is a thing in general sure. The speech at the tribal was a fully calculated game move after finding out that the jury was going to vote for Tony. Votes that Tony fully deserved. I don't think Sara played a bad game(she did make bad moves and had some bad reads near the end). I think she played a really good game. But Tony was nearly flawless and the jury wanting to vote for him is not some inherent gender bias.
Again, her point was that Tony was getting all the credit for moves that they did together. Besides the Sophie vote, Tony and Sarah were on the same page the entire game, they made decisions together. Sarah also had to survive being on a tribe down in numbers 3-2. Just look at the comments she mentions about Rob, that is where her frustration comes from.
 

TheBeastCoast

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Again, her point was that Tony was getting all the credit for moves that they did together. Besides the Sophie vote, Tony and Sarah were on the same page the entire game, they made decisions together. Sarah also had to survive being on a tribe down in numbers 3-2. Just look at the comments she mentions about Rob, that is where her frustration comes from.
I mean Tony was pretty clearly running the show from merge to the end. To act like it was a 50/50 split is just straight up disingenuous. Tony played a better game then Sarah. Just because they were on the same page does not just mean they just get equal credit by default. There were like four vote outs in a row that had Tony all over them. Tony played a nearly flawless game while Sarah played a good-great game. It isn't hard to figure out why there is a difference in the credit they are getting.
 

MJG

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If Sarah thinks she was an equal partner to Tony and that her game was equivalent then she’s just wrong. She just needs to go and re-watch the episode where Sophie was booted. Her points are not off base in general, but don’t hold weight in this specific case. Tony was awesome. She seems to think there’s only one way to play a social game but Tony killed it. No doubt her speeches were just a ploy to steer potential sympathy and votes her way once she realized people favoured Tony. Furthermore, 3 men voted for Natalie vs 1 woman. So I don’t think the guys had any problems recognizing a strong female player.
 

Peasy

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I mean Tony was pretty clearly running the show from merge to the end. To act like it was a 50/50 split is just straight up disingenuous. Tony played a better game then Sarah. Just because they were on the same page does not just mean they just get equal credit by default. There were like four vote outs in a row that had Tony all over them. Tony played a nearly flawless game while Sarah played a good-great game. It isn't hard to figure out why there is a difference in the credit they are getting.
Yeah because Tony was the winner of the season. Of course they're going to build up their winner, its called edgic.

I also think a majority of Sarah's speech was just about Survivor in general, and not specifically this season and her situation.

3 women have won in the past 15 seasons. Idol finds are like 70% men, first vote outs are often women, the fire making challenge seems to benefit men, Jeff's favourite players consistently being males etc.

I think it took 20 years for a female to win over a male in the final 2 in big brother.

Also the whole "how can Sarah believe Nat after knowing her one day" argument. They were friends coming into this season outside the game. But in the end it was still a poor judgment call.
 
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