Transfer: Summer Transfer Window Rumors part5

[Evilo]

Yesterday Zorc said there is no way Sancho will leave.



Watzke said the next player to try to pull a Dembele will sit in the stands.



Watzke coming down hard on Borussia Dortmund squad after Aubameyang exit

Sooooooooooooooooo you can't come up with a single example to backup your stance.

Got it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Should I call you out if Dembele doesn't leave this summer?

I don't believe I said he would leave this summer. If I did, please find it, and I'll own it if I said that and he doesn't leave.

 

[JoemAvs]

Nah, the lack of understanding is being blind. That is YOUR case.
I have zero interest in Sancho, BVB and United.
But how many excuses can you come up with?
ALL THOSE GUYS LEFT when they wanted.
So again, can you give me an example of a single big time player that BVB blocked from leaving when a big team came and paid the price?
The only example was Lewa.
And please you have to realize that when a player leaves 1 year before the end of his contract (Hummels or when Lewa wanted), HE REJECTED EXTENSIONS.
If Haaland or Sancho WANT to leave AND a big team gives up the money, THEY WILL LEAVE.

They managed to keep Reus who Bayern (and a few others) really wanted.
They did not sell Hummels or Gündogan when they had multiple years on their deals.
Auba wanted to go a few times before he ultimately got sold.
They rather kept Lewandowski another year and let him walk for nothing than let him go for a decent fee to Bayern..

All those guys left when BVB ran out of leverage. Pulisic, Kagawa, Götze, Mkhitaryan, Lewandowski, Sahin, etc...
Dortmund did not want to sell any of those guys.
But given their financials and status they could not convince them to stay so they sold them because that was the less painful option to losing them and a ton of money (with the exception of Lewandowski which really hurt them) once they run down their contracts.

That is vastly different from the ridiculous assumption that they are happy to sell if someone offers them a good price....
Haaland and Sancho obviously will leave Dortmund rather sooner than later. No question about that.
But only once Dortmund are forced to let them go.
And in both cases that won't be in 2020 unless Sancho pulls a Dembele and even then I think Dortmund would be more likely to keep him not to mention that I don't think United will pay enough for Dortmund to give in now even if Sancho goes full ballistic...

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Sooooooooooooooooo you can't come up with a single example to backup your stance.

Got it.

I am not taking a stance. I am giving factual information that was said. I provided the quotes right there.

 

[Evilo]

I don't believe I said he would leave this summer. If I did, please find it, and I'll own it if I said that and he doesn't leave.

I don't care. You said Barca was trying to dump Dembele. When I proved you the contrary you said there were rumors and that at some point they'd dump him.
Basically you did what you refuse the right to do : make up some stuff using rumors. Except you didn't even have a rumor, just whole made up stuff.

 

[Evilo]

I am not taking a stance. I am giving factual information that was said. I provided the quotes right there.

You said the front office was tough on this.
To be "tough on this" you have to have a proven record right?
Well, I asked you to provide ONE example of the current front office blocking a player from leaving.
You couldn't come up with ONE example. Just Zorc's negociations tactics quotes, which I don't care since we don't know if Sancho leaves or not.
So you failed to backup your stance, simple as that.

 

[Savant]

That's why they can buy bit part players. Next summer they'll be trying to get something big done. I do think they want Sancho, but obviously he'd have to stay at Dortmund for another year.

Totally fine with that. Half of that pay out gets Thiago and a Ben White whivh would be a great finish to the summer.

 

[JoemAvs]

Totally fine with that. Half of that pay out gets Thiago and a Ben White whivh would be a great finish to the summer.

Thiago will be interesting. It seems like 30M is the fee that Liverpool would have to come up with..
And I am not sure that they are willing to go that high even though Thiago clearly wants to join them and Klopp wants to bring him in...
Might simply depend on whether Wijnaldum is willing to go to another club for a decent fee or if he wants to stay for another year and see what happens (whether that means extension or going to Juve for free like every other decent PL midfielder that is out of contract)...

 

[gary69]

I doubt they can spend 500M in the same summer.

Well, probably some tens of billions of the EU covid money (750 Bn) will go to Spain, who are likely to distritube that money to their biggest industries. Since Real and Barca are closely linked to tourism industry, there are rumours they might get a combined couple of billions in grants/government backed interest-free loans with a maturity of tens of years.

So they might be able to spend that, when the EU money will cover most of their other operating costs.

 

[Savant]

Thiago will be interesting. It seems like 30M is the fee that Liverpool would have to come up with..
And I am not sure that they are willing to go that high even though Thiago clearly wants to join them and Klopp wants to bring him in...
Might simply depend on whether Wijnaldum is willing to go to another club for a decent fee or if he wants to stay for another year and see what happens (whether that means extension or going to Juve for free like every other decent PL midfielder that is out of contract)...

I honestly think LFC keep Wijnaldum one more year and then let him walk. Would be great to get Thiago in but maybe they try to wait a year themselves. Thiago makes more sense without Wijnaldum on the roster, but he is such a great talent. I think if Thiago happens it’ll be late in the window. LFC still have much more pressing needs than midfield, and may need to see how much money is left over. I hate trying to replace players in the same window, so even if Gini is leaving would want to bring Thiago in early.

 

[JoemAvs]

Well, probably some tens of billions of the EU covid money (750 Bn) will go to Spain, who are likely to distritube that money to their biggest industries. Since Real and Barca are closely linked to tourism industry, there are rumours they might get a combined couple of billions in grants/government backed interest-free loans with a maturity of tens of years.

So they might be able to spend that, when the EU money will cover most of their other operating costs.

Which would be a total disgrace but also not shocking.
As a citizen of one of the countries that will have to foot that bill (and whose clubs are probably then lose out to Spanish clubs due to that internationally and in the transfermarket), I am not happy about that one bit and I hope the spanish government thinks long and hard about this. But considering that Italy is already giving the likes of Ronaldo massive tax breaks while also basically demanding that other countries help them financially through the crisis, I wouldn't be shocked if that is exactly what happens...
Certainly not good for the European Idea and certainly will make countries wary of ever doing something like that again...


@Savant :
I am a bit puzzled by the whole Wijnaldum thing. I alwas thought he was overrated but I also thought that people love him over there.
So why hasn't he extended his contract yet? All down to money?

Also Thiago leaving late is probably not an option for Bayern considering that they have to bring in a replacement. 30M IMO sounds like a really fair fee even during COVID-19 times for a player of that caliber. I don't think Liverpool should push it and test Bayerns revolve unless they want to risk him staying another year...

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Just realized that David Silva will have been at City for over 10 years. God damn.

 

[hatterson]

I'm not sure why anyone would think a statement like that from Zorc would have any credibility given that he said the same thing about the last two major transfers and then they moved a couple weeks later.

That doesn't mean the transfer is guaranteed to happen, but that statement is basically worthless.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You said the front office was tough on this.
To be "tough on this" you have to have a proven record right?
Well, I asked you to provide ONE example of the current front office blocking a player from leaving.
You couldn't come up with ONE example. Just Zorc's negociations tactics quotes, which I don't care since we don't know if Sancho leaves or not.
So you failed to backup your stance, simple as that.

I said

Our hierarchy has been rather forceful in their statements about these situations.

Statements aren't the same thing as actions. You are trying to pick a fight that isn't there. I didn't take any stance, nor am I agreeing or disagreeing with yours. I am giving no opinion on that. I said something thats rather factual and then gave the quotes about it.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'm not sure why anyone would think a statement like that from Zorc would have any credibility given that he said the same thing about the last two major transfers and then they moved a couple weeks later.

When did he say there's absolutely no circumstance that other players would leave? I must've missed this, so maybe you can provide the quotes.

That doesn't mean the transfer is guaranteed to happen, but that statement is basically worthless.

It actually isn't worthless because its his decision. If he sticks true to his words and is sure that he will not change his mind, thats the end of it. It matters at that point.

He could be bluffing, but we don't know. We'll have to see. I wouldn't be so sure either way.

 

[JoemAvs]

I'm not sure why anyone would think a statement like that from Zorc would have any credibility given that he said the same thing about the last two major transfers and then they moved a couple weeks later.

That doesn't mean the transfer is guaranteed to happen, but that statement is basically worthless.

It clearly signals their intent...
And its not like these statements were negotiation ploys back then and the Dortmund officials have had to publicly eat a lot of crow because of having to walk back these statements and were not happy about it. They just underestimated the combination of players willingness to upset the applecard and the amount of money they got offered..
There is a reason why Watzke had some testy exchanges over the media with Auba and Mkhitaryan after they left. Same to a lesser extent with Dembele. If all of that would have only been a negotiation ploy, there would have been no need to be angry with these players or so much bad blood over them leaving...

Both of these things are not as big of a factor this time around from the looks of it and I would also argue that they will be hard pressed to go back on their words again here if they don't want to lose a ton of credibility going forward...

Dortmund has fans and media as well. And especially those fans will not happy if Sancho gets sold now after what has been said by their management. Considering that he has 3 years left on his deal and that there is no real incentive for them to sell now (odds are they will get 100M++ for him a year from now easily as well), I really have a hard time seeing how Zorc could sell fans and media on losing Sancho even if Woodward tomorrow dumps 120M € on his lap...

 

[hatterson]

 

[Live in the Now]

Yep. He just needs to go on strike, and the saga is over immediately. Really it all rests on the player now.

 

[hatterson]

Yep. He just needs to go on strike, and the saga is over immediately. Really it all rests on the player now.

I don't really think that's likely, but who knows.

My point is generally just that Zorc's statements are fairly meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

It's the parent you see in Walmart telling their kid they're *definitely* super serious this time and then nothing changes.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The statement from yesterday about Sancho is different from the other ones.

There's a difference between saying there's no way a player will move after being directly asked that question, and saying that a player will not move. The latter leaves open the door for changing one's mind. The former doesn't. The context here matters. If Sancho is sold, Zorc will have done a complete about face. It's not an about face if the circumstances change and you had never stated there was no way you'd change your mind, which was the circumstance surrounding Dembele and Aubameyang.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Hopefully Hatem ben Arfa back to Rennes.

 

[The Abusement Park]

When did he say there's absolutely no circumstance that other players would leave? I must've missed this, so maybe you can provide the quotes.



It actually isn't worthless because its his decision. If he sticks true to his words and is sure that he will not change his mind, thats the end of it. It matters at that point.

He could be bluffing, but we don't know. We'll have to see. I wouldn't be so sure either way.

He was also sure the Mkhi, Auba, and Dembele were staying. Again it doesn't mean Sancho is leaving but there is absolutely precedence of him saying a player is staying only to move them a short time later. He's saying this for PR reasons, negotiation reasons, and because at this exact moment in time it's true he isn't leaving.

 

[Jussi]

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He was also sure the Mkhi, Auba, and Dembele were staying. Again it doesn't mean Sancho is leaving but there is absolutely precedence of him saying a player is staying only to move them a short time later. He's saying this for PR reasons, negotiation reasons, and because at this exact moment in time it's true he isn't leaving.

You are missing a small but important difference in the language.

When you are pressed on something, and say there's no way, you are setting yourself up for substantial pushback if you do something contrary.

If you state something without being pressed and without the strongest terms, you can always use the excuse that the circumstances changed.

I don't know how one doesn't acknowledge a difference between the language he's used in these situations.

 

[les Habs]

We have no money there's a rumor everyday. Not sure what they're thinking. Plus I hear Gaya is going to be captaining Valencia. I mean he would be a great buy and an actual smart one which is a rarity for this board all the more reason not to believe it.

Gaya is way too unproven to be a great buy. That said if we could leverage Firpo in the deal I'd be fine with it. EDIT: Well not really an edit because I'm catching myself before posting this, but WTF am I saying here? No, I wouldn't be fine with it. Zero interest in Gaya. He's 25 and has little to show for it. I'm sure we could find a better option.

Odegaard will return to Madrid. Isco replacement if the rumours of him joining Juve are true.

Interesting because just weeks ago he wasn't coming back. Anyway, I think it's a smart move on their part if they sell some players, but Odegaard didn't show up post lockdown.

Come on barca

Still not amusing.

Ceballos should be sold though. Done well with Arsenal, but I fail to see where he fits in Madrid. Especially if Odegaard is brought back THIS season.

Agreed, but let's hope they see it differently.

Sub-plot.

I would love it if they threw big money at us for Dembele. Problem is they're probably spend it on Martinez.

Will never not post this when his name is mentioned. Best highlight vid I've seen from a player.

Problem is he gets injured just showing up to training.

Casemiro is staying.
Modric gone for sure I would say, wasn't he rumoured to sign with Inter?
I think Kroos would stay though. Valverde should start over him anyway

James and Isco are goners

Agreed on all of this, but I could see Isco staying.

He's saving for Camavinga, Mbappe and Haaland next summer imo.

I don't think they move for Haaland if they sign Mbappe'.

I think Barça may make a play for Haaland especially if no Lautaro

It would make sense, but we really haven't been linked with him much. Should have signed him in the Winter window if they were interested.

Next summer not this one

We should sign Brandt this Summer.