Transfer: Summer Transfer news and rumors discussion part 6

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PeteWorrell

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Aug 31, 2006
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Oh, I agree. But I can understand why Leicester have put such an asking price. We might see it decrease if he actually has asked to leave though.
There is not going to be any form of decrease. Mahrez also wanted to leave and they only let him leave when they felt that City met their valuation. Leicester is big enough to be hard in negociations like Lyon.
 

Stray Wasp

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Regarding Maguire, I think he is better than a lot of people on here are willing to give him credit for. Comfortably the best centre-half outside the top six in my opinion.

If I wanted to damn a player with faint praise, I might type the above.

I think Harry Maguire is good, but even if the up front price of £60 million it strikes me as nuts. (Mind, I'm dubious about how clever Leicester will look if they splurge £45 million of their plunderings on Lewis Dunk.)
 

YNWA14

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Regarding Maguire, I think he is better than a lot of people on here are willing to give him credit for. Comfortably the best centre-half outside the top six in my opinion.

Hate the reported fees, not the player.
People are talking about the fee in relation to the quality of the player. I don't think many would agree he's even the best CB outside of the top 6 (just off the top of my head I'd much rather Ake, Schar and Bednarek), but mostly people are just saying that it's an insane price for someone who isn't a top player, and doesn't have that kind of potential. Ultimately I won't talk about what he's worth, because that's up to whoever has the money for him, but there are quite a few players in world football that are better, younger, and cheaper, and if you really have that kind of money why wouldn't you just pay the asking price for Koulibaly? There are much cheaper ways to reach a domestic quota.
 

Live in the Now

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The only guys who didn't get mocked were Laporte and Mendy. The up-front amount for Harry Maguire is more than Laporte! That deal wasn't even a long time ago.

We're talking about top five CB money here. VVD was somewhat mocked at the time too.
 
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Ajacied

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Apr 6, 2002
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Eiting and de Jong don't really play the same game at all though.

Carel is more of a passer than the dribbler Frenkie is, but he is every bit the playmaking #6. He thinks and acts slower on the pitch and is also less strong physically than Frenkie, but I see a lot of similarities. He's the closest to Frenkie in the organisation.

Agree with the rest.
 

Stray Wasp

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Ultimately I won't talk about what he's worth, because that's up to whoever has the money for him, but there are quite a few players in world football that are better, younger, and cheaper, and if you really have that kind of money why wouldn't you just pay the asking price for Koulibaly?

While I agree with you, I think it's worth adding another quality where Maguire suffers by comparison with others - European experience. At 26, he's played fewer European games than John Stones had when he signed for City as a 22 year old.

I'd forgotten Maguire was 26. That's hardly ancient for a CB, but it's a reminder that his election to the PFA's League One team of the year in 2011-12 as a nineteen year old didn't bring the rapid rise that was mooted for him at the time. Given Maguire remained a regular starter at Sheffield United, I often wondered what the knock on him was, before I duly read it was a lack of pace.

And there's another tricky matter. Van Dijk is an athlete, and that equipped him to protect the vulnerability inherent in Klopp's style of play - the foot races that occur if the opposition springs the press. Even if we accept that Maguire is the best CB outside the top six, that means he's the best of a bunch of players who mostly play for teams that don't leave a lot of grass behind their back four, and who do their best to have a block of bodies ahead of their defenders too. Leicester is a case in point - a counter-attacking unit that affords their CBs a good deal of systematic protection (a necessity when so often you field Wes Morgan). Assuming Solksjaer wants the Fallen Empire to be an attack-minded outfit, Maguire may find himself more vulnerable defending greater areas of vacant space in front of him than ever before in his top flight career. He reads the game pretty well, but Bobby Moore he is not. Nor is his skill on the ball so high that he seems like a ball-playing CB whose rewards justify the defensive risks.

Funnily enough, I'm old enough to remember Manchester United paying a ludicrous sum for a young English centre-back and coming up trumps. That was Gary Pallister, in 1989, when £2.3 million was the second biggest transfer fee ever paid by an English club. But the differences between Pallister and Maguire outnumber the similarities. Those were the old, Football League days: the competition, Liverpool apart, wasn't so strong either financially or from a sporting perspective, and, anyway, the bridge between top and bottom of the league was far smaller. Pallister was 24. Most importantly, he came from a Middlesbrough team that under Bruce Rioch played a passing game, and he possessed far greater mobility and a better turn of pace than Maguire can call upon.

Ultimately, 'worth' translates to whether a player's presence significantly improves a team. It's hard to see Maguire fulfilling that function at Old Trafford.
 
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Havre

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Many sources saying Saliba prefers Arsenal. Might just be the one source spreading of course. If so - hopefully the only win Arsenal get over Spurs this year.
 

YNWA14

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I'm not a fan of how this whole de Ligt thing has gone on. I don't in particular like sideshows(Memphis aside, :P), so question any decent footballer or top prospect that hires Raiola at all. Talented as he is de Ligt is far from my favourite player.
 

gary69

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Sep 22, 2004
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While I agree with you, I think it's worth adding another quality where Maguire suffers by comparison with others - European experience. At 26, he's played fewer European games than John Stones had when he signed for City as a 22 year old.

Funnily enough, I'm old enough to remember Manchester United paying a ludicrous sum for a young English centre-back and coming up trumps. That was Gary Pallister, in 1989, when £2.3 million was the second biggest transfer fee ever paid by an English club. But the differences between Pallister and Maguire outnumber the similarities. Those were the old, Football League days: the competition, Liverpool apart, wasn't so strong either financially or from a sporting perspective, and, anyway, the bridge between top and bottom of the league was far smaller. Pallister was 24. Most importantly, he came from a Middlesbrough team that under Bruce Rioch played a passing game, and he possessed far greater mobility and a better turn of pace than Maguire can call upon.

Ultimately, 'worth' translates to whether a player's presence significantly improves a team. It's hard to see Maguire fulfilling that function at Old Trafford.

Even with the Pallister fee, I think United could be happy with the Pallister-Bruce partnership, it worked all right for a few years. More surprisng to me was that at the time other were mostly preferred for the NT team. Des Walker being picked I could understand because of his speed, but I was never convinced that Mark Wright was really any better than those two. Can't really arque with the results (mainly WC'90 semis), though.

Maguire is unlikely to justify the huge fee, but I could see him doing a servicable job of securing Utd a a top4 spot, which might be the best they can hope for the next couple of years.
 
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Stray Wasp

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Even with the Pallister fee, I think United could be happy with the Pallister-Bruce partnership, it worked all right for a few years. More surprisng to me was that at the time other were mostly preferred for the NT team. Des Walker being picked I could understand because of his speed, but I was never convinced that Mark Wright was really any better than those two. Can't really arque with the results (mainly WC'90 semis), though.

Maguire is unlikely to justify the huge fee, but I could see him doing a servicable job of securing Utd a a top4 spot, which might be the best they can hope for the next couple of years.

I'd agree there was little to choose between Wright and Pallister (Bruce was disadvantaged by his lack of pace, I think, although he should without doubt have been capped). I suspect Wright's big advantage was his couple of years seniority in age, which meant he came into the team first and therefore benefitted from Bobby Robson's loyalty, which at times was both excessive and ill-placed (go back to 1986 and I still cannot understand the selection of Terry Fenwick). Robson's own words, 'We've got here, I don't know how', have more than an element of truth about even his best campaigns for England (to an extent, the same can be applied to his spells with Barcelona and Newcastle). More often than most lauded coaches, the teams he designed flourished after taking unforeseen turns.

Maguire could help Man United towards a top four spot, I'd say, but not drive them to that end. If he's to be their Pallister, I'd suggest they need to find a surrogate Bruce. And, crucially, my feeling is they'll be more dependent on other clubs regressing rather than signally improving themselves.
 
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