News Article: Subban's next contract

[Frozenice]

Sure, why not? Every player has that option sooner or later. Why not PK? You're talking like this is something that never happens... happens all the time. And if the player looks like he's not going to re-sign at the end THEN you trade him.

None of what you've said here makes a lick of sense.

But, okay...

Under your scenario, we're going to be a mediocre team this year and likely next year and the year after and then what? PK leaves, we get nothing for him and we're a mediocre team for another 5 or so years. But that's not going to happen only because you don't like that ending?

Great vision if you're trying to recreate the Thrashers because that's straight out of their play book.

 

[PsychoticHab]

Habs don't deserve this kid. Pure talent. You put him on Chicago or Pittaburgh and he has 50 points right now!
I hope he signs for 2 years and high tails it out of Dodge. Therrien is an idiot and I doubt he has more job security than a generational talent.

I know I'm in the minority but Subban deserved a short benching last game for his selfish actions. Personally I think half the period was excessive but 1-2 shifts missed would have been alright in my book. The play was over and Subban made a selfish decision. Many of our players have had to go through short benchings for selfish mistakes and therefore Subban should be no exception when it comes to team play. As long as the benchings are in direct relations to mistakes where a player did not buy into a team system, I'll most likely be fine with them.

However, where I have my problem with MT, is when he singles out Subban to the media but is unwilling to do so with any other player. During most of his first 19 games it would not have been difficult for MT to point out DD's bad play but he kept quiet and only benched him when it got to be beyond ridiculous. Or if you want an instance of 1 play costing the game, why wasn't Bouillon's name brought up following the November 1st game against the Wild? The GWG occurred on his watch not to mention that Bouillon was the only D-Man that game with a -2 which was only topped by the 3 4th liners. If he has something to teach Subban, it should be handled within the confines of his office or the locker room but to bring it up publicly is asking for trouble. Reversely so, if he did this bringing it up to the media thing for everyone, that would at least be fair. (Although a really quick way to lose the locker room)

Now in terms of gameplan is where I think MT most needs to get off this team. If he cannot draw up a gameplan that uses our strengths instead of exposing our weaknesses then he has no place at head coach. Even what worked at the beginning is now failing (see PP) and yet he seems unwilling to adjust the system to counter the adjustments of other teams which is leaving his players, Subban including, out to dry as the other team knows what will be coming before it does. I don't even want to get into his whole "Not pulling the goalie" decision though.

Fact is, even the things MT handles alright get destroyed because he turns around and shows favoritism to certain players. (FB and DD predominantly)

So I entirely agree with you that MT is an idiot but that the same time to say that "The Habs don't deserve this kid" is ridiculous. As talented as he is, Subban is not above the law on the team. He says all of the right things to be a team player and now it's time that all of his actions do so as well. (By which I mean no selfish mental mistakes like Wednesday)

 

[rafal majka]

This is not a good scene that's unfolding before our eyes.

I was watching Hockeycentral at Noon and Kypreos was saying that it's time for the Hab's to make a decision on whether PK's our guy or not. He really can't be a maybe.

It's time for the Habs to make a decision about only one thing: Therrien.

The Habs have a Norris trophy winning D on their roster for the first time in a generation and you and Kypreos want to move him?

Subban's talent is generational. Whether you or Kypreos or Therrien like it or not, Subban drives the Habs.

Subban and Markov play big minutes. They drive possession. They make everyone who plays with them better. They are the straw that stirs the Habs' drink.

 

[Kriss E]

Under your scenario, we're going to be a mediocre team this year and likely next year and the year after and then what? PK leaves, we get nothing for him and we're a mediocre team for another 5 or so years. But that's not going to happen only because you don't like that ending?

Great vision if you're trying to recreate the Thrashers because that's straight out of their play book.

Hate to tell you this buddy but you're not making any sense at all.

You seem to assume that if PK wants out in 3 years he'll either be worth very little (which makes no sense at all) via trade or we won't be able to move him so we'll lose him to free agency (which again, makes no sense).

As for PK being a prima donna, I have no idea what in God's name you're talking about...
Just because PK would want a 3year deal, it would make him one?? What???

Seriously dude, it seems like you just want to trade PK. Is that it? You want to trade him but don't want to admit it? Because none of your arguments make any sense.

 

[Kriss E]

I know I'm in the minority but Subban deserved a short benching last game for his selfish actions. Personally I think half the period was excessive but 1-2 shifts missed would have been alright in my book. The play was over and Subban made a selfish decision. Many of our players have had to go through short benchings for selfish mistakes and therefore Subban should be no exception when it comes to team play. As long as the benchings are in direct relations to mistakes where a player did not buy into a team system, I'll most likely be fine with them.

However, where I have my problem with MT, is when he singles out Subban to the media but is unwilling to do so with any other player. During most of his first 19 games it would not have been difficult for MT to point out DD's bad play but he kept quiet and only benched him when it got to be beyond ridiculous. Or if you want an instance of 1 play costing the game, why wasn't Bouillon's name brought up following the November 1st game against the Wild? The GWG occurred on his watch not to mention that Bouillon was the only D-Man that game with a -2 which was only topped by the 3 4th liners. If he has something to teach Subban, it should be handled within the confines of his office or the locker room but to bring it up publicly is asking for trouble. Reversely so, if he did this bringing it up to the media thing for everyone, that would at least be fair. (Although a really quick way to lose the locker room)

Now in terms of gameplan is where I think MT most needs to get off this team. If he cannot draw up a gameplan that uses our strengths instead of exposing our weaknesses then he has no place at head coach. Even what worked at the beginning is now failing (see PP) and yet he seems unwilling to adjust the system to counter the adjustments of other teams which is leaving his players, Subban including, out to dry as the other team knows what will be coming before it does. I don't even want to get into his whole "Not pulling the goalie" decision though.

Fact is, even the things MT handles alright get destroyed because he turns around and shows favoritism to certain players. (FB and DD predominantly)

So I entirely agree with you that MT is an idiot but that the same time to say that "The Habs don't deserve this kid" is ridiculous. As talented as he is, Subban is not above the law on the team. He says all of the right things to be a team player and now it's time that all of his actions do so as well. (By which I mean no selfish mental mistakes like Wednesday)

What's the point of benching PK for a shift?...Really, what's the point.
Keep him in the game, we need to score anyways and we're much better with him than without. Benching PK isn't just a punishment for him, but it's also punishing the team. It doesn't end there either. Berube is probably laughing and thanking Therrien after. Let's not make our best player play..sure, that's not going to help the
opposition. Such a stupid strategy. It's a stupid and outdated approach.

You want to punish him, then give him a lot of suicides to do before they start practice in front of everybody. Make him be the water boy and puck guy for a week. Do something that actually won't hurt the team in the process.


All Therrien does with this scratching is attract attention. Maybe he does it on purpose because people aren't really talking about the crap performance, but I doubt that because it's bad press for him and his star player. What this does is make it look as if PK was a big reason for this loss. After all, pretty much the whole team could have been benched for playing like pure crap, and yet only one guy was singled out. He's done this on many occasions this year with PK.

 

[Habsterix*]

YOU don't have a firm grip on reality. I'm amazed that you still don't ****ing understand this. I'm not wasting any more time with you on this.

It's very simple... PK can do whatever the **** he wants. If we trade him now we will never get anywhere near the value that we should. He knows it, his agent knows it and (hopefully) MB knows it. So ****ing pay him his money for however long he'll sign here for and move the on.

The **** make for such a compelling argument.

 

[PsychoticHab]

What's the point of benching PK for a shift?...Really, what's the point.
Keep him in the game, we need to score anyways and we're much better with him than without. Benching PK isn't just a punishment for him, but it's also punishing the team. It doesn't end there either. Berube is probably laughing and thanking Therrien after. Let's not make our best player play..sure, that's not going to help the
opposition. Such a stupid strategy. It's a stupid and outdated approach.

You want to punish him, then give him a lot of suicides to do before they start practice in front of everybody. Make him be the water boy and puck guy for a week. Do something that actually won't hurt the team in the process.


All Therrien does with this scratching is attract attention. Maybe he does it on purpose because people aren't really talking about the crap performance, but I doubt that because it's bad press for him and his star player. What this does is make it look as if PK was a big reason for this loss. After all, pretty much the whole team could have been benched for playing like pure crap, and yet only one guy was singled out. He's done this on many occasions this year with PK.

2 shifts with 7 D-Men in the lineup is almost 5 minutes worth of benching (about half of what Subban got).

Sure we were down 2 at the time but it's not like anyone on the team, Subban included, had showed anything offensively with the puck. In fact, the only D-Man that had set up a play offensively (which didn't score anyway) was Bouillon. Should we not be able to mount a 2 goal comeback without Subban? What happens if he misses a month?

I don't really have a problem with your suicides idea but that seems to be much more of a minor league move. (Efficient nonetheless)

 

[Habsterix*]

"We may have sacrificed a bit of offense, but as far as I know, P.K. played the second half of the third period. So at the end, he missed what? Three shifts?"

Gorges didn't stop there. He says that the city of Montreal got hot because of the identity of the player penalized.

"Everybody talks about it because the situation involves P.K. The same thing happened to Andrei Markov in Toronto last year. I don't recall having to answer, the next day, to questions about the way he must have felt."

Translated from here.

That's captain material right there!

 

[Frozenice]

Hate to tell you this buddy but you're not making any sense at all.

You seem to assume that if PK wants out in 3 years he'll either be worth very little (which makes no sense at all) via trade or we won't be able to move him so we'll lose him to free agency (which again, makes no sense).

As for PK being a prima donna, I have no idea what in God's name you're talking about...
Just because PK would want a 3year deal, it would make him one?? What???

Seriously dude, it seems like you just want to trade PK. Is that it? You want to trade him but don't want to admit it? Because none of your arguments make any sense.

If PK doesn't want to sign here long term I would trade him. The only exception would be is if he signed a 1 year deal and then I would keep him only if he signed a long term deal at the end of that deal. I've stated that a few times, I don't have a secret agenda to trade him other then that.

Show me trade values of soon to be UFA's over the past decade that you find would be an acceptable return for PK? You're telling me we can expect a good return for PK if we trade him at the end of a 3 year contract but the reality is that is speculation that has no basis in reality.

I don't know whether PK would stay or go if we signed him to a 3 year deal (and neither do you or LG) but it's a risk I wouldn't take because it's not a smart bet to make.

Posters here make all sorts of speculations that you have no idea whether or not they are true but it's only speculations that you don't agree with that are 'speculations'. Did you call out LG when he speculated that PK would want to stay here? No, of course not.

If PK wants to stay here he can sign a long term contract and if he doesn't care whether he stays here or not he can refuse to sign a long term deal.

 

[WolfgangAmadeusEller*]

Typical Montreal. You NEVER punish your best player for making a mistake on the ice. He has earned the right to make mistakes. Therrien is an idiot.

 

[Toastman]

Typical Montreal. You NEVER punish your best player for making a mistake on the ice. He has earned the right to make mistakes. Therrien is an idiot.

Therrien gives more ice time to players who make mistakes

 

[digmor crusher]

Benching Subban = Short term pain for long term gain.

Not sure why everyone is making such a big deal of this, happens all the time.

 

[Habsterix*]

Benching Subban = Short term pain for long term gain.

Not sure why everyone is making such a big deal of this, happens all the time.

Because in the eyes of some, Subban can do no wrong while Therrien, Bergevin, Desharnais, Gionta, Bourque and others can do no right. #HFHabs

 

[DAChampion]

Because in the eyes of some, Subban can do no wrong while Therrien, Bergevin, Desharnais, Gionta, Bourque and others can do no right. #HFHabs

Subban is top-5 in the world at what he does while Therrien, Bergevin, Desharnais, Gionta, Bourque are not top-5 in the world at what they do #DAChampion

 

[Kriss E]

2 shifts with 7 D-Men in the lineup is almost 5 minutes worth of benching (about half of what Subban got).

Sure we were down 2 at the time but it's not like anyone on the team, Subban included, had showed anything offensively with the puck. In fact, the only D-Man that had set up a play offensively (which didn't score anyway) was Bouillon. Should we not be able to mount a 2 goal comeback without Subban? What happens if he misses a month?

I don't really have a problem with your suicides idea but that seems to be much more of a minor league move. (Efficient nonetheless)

Ya we should be able to generate things without him, but he's still our leading scorer and best Dman. He has the very rare talent of being able to take a game completely under his control.
Remember the game in CGY earlier this year?? It was comparable to yesterday's game where we looked completely flat. In the 3rd period though, it was the PK show (it started late in the 2nd after he scored a goal on the PP which seemed to wake him up). The guy took over the period, every time he was on the ice, something happened. He was deking everybody, completely controlling the play. It was such a beautiful thing to see.
That's the type of player PK is. So benching him is never good. Ya, nothing had been created all game. But PK can change this all by himself. That's why you play him.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If PK doesn't want to sign here long term I would trade him. The only exception would be is if he signed a 1 year deal and then I would keep him only if he signed a long term deal at the end of that deal. I've stated that a few times, I don't have a secret agenda to trade him other then that.

Show me trade values of soon to be UFA's over the past decade that you find would be an acceptable return for PK? You're telling me we can expect a good return for PK if we trade him at the end of a 3 year contract but the reality is that is speculation that has no basis in reality.

I don't know whether PK would stay or go if we signed him to a 3 year deal (and neither do you or LG) but it's a risk I wouldn't take because it's not a smart bet to make.

Posters here make all sorts of speculations that you have no idea whether or not they are true but it's only speculations that you don't agree with that are 'speculations'. Did you call out LG when he speculated that PK would want to stay here? No, of course not.

If PK wants to stay here he can sign a long term contract and if he doesn't care whether he stays here or not he can refuse to sign a long term deal.

I'm sorry, but I don't see any risk here. Would you sign him for four? Five?

At some point he's going to be a UFA. You can't try to force your players to play on your terms all the time, certainly not with a talent like Subban.

Let me throw you out another scenario... Meehan comes to you and says: "Look, PK wants to stay but we don't know where the cap's going to be in 2017 and we don't want to leave money on the table. So we'll sign 3 x 8.5 now and re-up with you then, or you can give us 8 x 11 to mitigate the risk."

Because there is a financial risk for Subban to re-up now at 8x8. I hope he does it and it's over with but if he were to say 8x3 then I don't see how anyone could blame him. The Habs might be forced to decide between 3 x 8.5 or something vs. 8 x something a lot higher. Meehan's not stupid, he knows that cap is going up, is PK going to want to be playing for 8 mil a year in 5 years when the best blueliners are making 10 or 11? That's got to be bouncing around in his mind right now.

You seem to think that he's going to sign for three and then bolt. I don't see that happening and even if it were the case his trade value is still going to be high if we did it in the final year.

Think about what you're suggesting here for a second. You would want to trade arguably the best blueliner in the game because he only wants to sign with you for three seasons? What will you get in return? We saw this movie with Chris Chelios, do we want that situation again? Because this time there's no Patrick Roy and a strong team to win us a cup. Losing Subban would set us back years. And we do this all over the paranoia that he might leave after the contract. I don't follow your logic here.

 

[PsychoticHab]

Ya we should be able to generate things without him, but he's still our leading scorer and best Dman. He has the very rare talent of being able to take a game completely under his control.
Remember the game in CGY earlier this year?? It was comparable to yesterday's game where we looked completely flat. In the 3rd period though, it was the PK show (it started late in the 2nd after he scored a goal on the PP which seemed to wake him up). The guy took over the period, every time he was on the ice, something happened. He was deking everybody, completely controlling the play. It was such a beautiful thing to see.
That's the type of player PK is. So benching him is never good. Ya, nothing had been created all game. But PK can change this all by himself. That's why you play him.

But then look at our 4-3 OT loss to the Sens, we enter the 3rd down 3-1 and it was Plek-Gionta-Briere-Murray that brought the comeback together.

Can Subban take over a game? Of course, there is no way I can deny that but in a situation where he killed all our momentum there's nothing wrong with sending the message that selfishness will not be tolerated by ANYONE. Again 10 minutes may have been a bit much but Subban got a chance late to create more offense and continued to be unsuccessful. (The PP that saw him return to the lineup)

To the person that said you never bench a "Star". I can grant that if it is an "In-Play" mistake such as a costly turnover while trying to create offense or a costly penalty on a borderline hit while trying to shift momentum. However, this is definitely not the situation that saw Subban throw an unnecessary punch at Couturier where Subban chose to put his revenge in front of the rest of the team. (Killing our momentum)

To Habsterix, just curious as I can't tell from text, was your comment about Gorges' handling of the media sarcastic or not? Sorry, I couldn't tell for sure reading it.

 

[Brainiac]

"We may have sacrificed a bit of offense, but as far as I know, P.K. played the second half of the third period. So at the end, he missed what? Three shifts?"

Gorges didn't stop there. He says that the city of Montreal got hot because of the identity of the player penalized.

"Everybody talks about it because the situation involves P.K. The same thing happened to Andrei Markov in Toronto last year. I don't recall having to answer, the next day, to questions about the way he must have felt."

Translated from here.

That's captain material right there!

You want some kool-aid with your kool-aid??

 

[Kriss E]

If PK doesn't want to sign here long term I would trade him. The only exception would be is if he signed a 1 year deal and then I would keep him only if he signed a long term deal at the end of that deal. I've stated that a few times, I don't have a secret agenda to trade him other then that.

This doesn't make sense. PK is in progression. He should keep improving, which means his value will keep rising. Trading him now when you still owe his rights and can have him for another 3 years would be completely moronic. You're pretty much saying if the Norris winner doesn't want to sign long term (this year or the next) then I don't want him. It's flat out stupid.

Show me trade values of soon to be UFA's over the past decade that you find would be an acceptable return for PK? You're telling me we can expect a good return for PK if we trade him at the end of a 3 year contract but the reality is that is speculation that has no basis in reality.

When's the last time a Norris winner was traded??8 years ago??? These guys don't get traded.
What speculation?? That you can expect good return for a Norris winner??? Why wouldn't we?? He's a freaking Norris winner. He was recognized as the best Dman of the NHL. He's part of an elite group of under 30 Dmen to ever receive this award (since the 53-54 season). And you're telling me I'm speculating??
Do you even realize what you're saying??

I don't know whether PK would stay or go if we signed him to a 3 year deal (and neither do you or LG) but it's a risk I wouldn't take because it's not a smart bet to make.

I don't know either, but it's irrelevant because you will still have the same option of trading him, and considering PK is still in progression, it's likely his play will improve which will also raise his value. Imagine if he gets nominated for the Norris again for 2 out of the next 3 seasons? Imagine he wins it again?
Trading him now would be stupid. Completely stupid.

Posters here make all sorts of speculations that you have no idea whether or not they are true but it's only speculations that you don't agree with that are 'speculations'. Did you call out LG when he speculated that PK would want to stay here? No, of course not.

We don't need to speculate on that, because again, we would still have the option of trading him.

We are not going to lose PK for nothing. It is just not going to happen. So get that out of your head.

 

[Aceekay]

Benching Subban = Short term pain for long term gain.

Not sure why everyone is making such a big deal of this, happens all the time.

How in the world is pissing off your star player a long term gain?

 

[Kriss E]

But then look at our 4-3 OT loss to the Sens, we enter the 3rd down 3-1 and it was Plek-Gionta-Briere-Murray that brought the comeback together.

Can Subban take over a game? Of course, there is no way I can deny that but in a situation where he killed all our momentum there's nothing wrong with sending the message that selfishness will not be tolerated by ANYONE. Again 10 minutes may have been a bit much but Subban got a chance late to create more offense and continued to be unsuccessful. (The PP that saw him return to the lineup)

The period ended and we were playing like crap. Spare me that killed momentum excuse.
The period ended, and we killed the penalty right? Why didn't that generate some momentum?? After all, we were carrying in some right?? But no, now we have to point to Subban for killing our momentum making it seem as if he prevented us from making a comeback..

Dude, seriously, it was useless. There was 18min left to get something going. Nothing happened. So ya, penalty was dumb. We benched our best player for it, that was also dumb. Did it change anything to the way we played? Nope. We looked like crap all game, it continued in the 3rd with PK on the bench, and it continued with him on it too. It literally changed absolutely nothing to the game.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The period ended and we were playing like crap. Spare me that killed momentum excuse.
The period ended, and we killed the penalty right? Why didn't that generate some momentum?? After all, we were carrying in some right?? But no, now we have to point to Subban for killing our momentum making it seem as if he prevented us from making a comeback..

Dude, seriously, it was useless. There was 18min left to get something going. Nothing happened. So ya, penalty was dumb. We benched our best player for it, that was also dumb. Did it change anything to the way we played? Nope. We looked like crap all game, it continued in the 3rd with PK on the bench, and it continued with him on it too. It literally changed absolutely nothing to the game.

Four shots in the final period... I'd say it made us worse.

 

[RushDP]

Because in the eyes of some, Subban can do no wrong while Therrien, Bergevin, Desharnais, Gionta, Bourque and others can do no right. #HFHabs

Only for those whose eyes are open and can see. Benching your best player for 10 minutes is bush league and stupid. It served no purpose and harmed the team.

Of course I don't expect anything other from you and your kind that calls for trading Subban if he doesn't sign long term when that's what he wanted in the first place but mb thought he needed to prove himself first. He won the Norris but still has to prove himself to mt...a coach that will never coach anywhere else other than here. When he gets fired he will never be a head coach again in this league.

Desharnais sits for one game and is never benched for ten minutes and he can't even carry PK's jock but he gets treated like he's special...he's useless. PK is extra special and he's treated the way DD should be.

 

[PsychoticHab]

How in the world is pissing off your star player a long term gain?

How do you know he was truly pissed off? I'll grant that he was likely frustrated (although I'm guessing he knew it was coming) but saying that he reached the level of "pissed off" seems extreme without proof.

He says all the right things to be a "team player" but at times does not necessarily put in the actions to put the team ahead of himself.

So if he was pissed off, are you saying Subban is willing to "talk the talk" about being a team player but is not willing to "walk the walk"?

 

[Lshap]

I think PK actually might want short term this time around. 8-9M now could mean a 50% increase in a couple of years because the cap will surely go up by plenty in the next few years. Sign short now, still take on those 8M, and then get his big jackpot deal in a few years.

PK's clan will take their sweet time though, they have the power with arbitration on their side. Bergevin will likely have to do some PR work with PK if he wants to get him inked long term. Starting with ''PK was a scratch when I got here, now he's got a Norris and Team Canada selection. We handled him well'' is a bad way to start imo.

Those comments by Bergevin really concerned me. Not only were his words patronizing as hell, but it's got 'Tactic' written all over it. I realize I'm doing exactly what I said we shouldn't do -- create imaginary scenarios from sketchy evidence -- but I'm pissed on PK's behalf that his own GM couldn't toss the guy a genuine compliment.

If Subban ends up signing a short-term deal, it'll be an opportunity lost for Bergevin and the organization, and an indictment of how they dealt with him from the beginning. But I'm still guessing (and hoping) both parties are focused on a long-term deal as we speak.

The time it's taking isn't really what I was talking about. There could be a hundred of benign reasons why it takes so much time. I was referring to early in the year there were rumors we were keeping Subban's TOI low so that he has less leverage during negotiations, the coaches refusal early on to say Subban deserved to be on Team Canada, blaming the losses on him, Bergevin's recent comment that Subban was a "Healthy Scratch" until he and Therrien came along. This is all this year and I'm probably forgetting some.

There's no way that all that is normal when trying to sign your franchise defenceman. Some of it is probably manufactured by the MTL media, but there are things that have nothing to do with the media like benching him last game that really make you wonder how they truly view Subban.

I agree with you there. I have no explanation for the strange management comments and stranger coaching decisions that have swirled around Subban for months. I'm trying not to fall into the trap of mind-reading what Bergevin, Therrien and Subban are thinking, but there's clearly much more to the story than "Star defenseman not appreciated". The only evidence we'll get of the underlying mood will be the terms of the upcoming contract.