News Article: Subban's next contract

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
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Subban came into the season like 7 games late last year without training camp and came out flying at the top of his game. It had nothing to do with Therrien and everything to do with natural progression. He was a star waiting to happen, all it needed was time. Anyone who refuses to admit this is lying to themselves..

and I'd add to that, the fact that he came into last season flying, despite both the lock-out and missing the limited practices & first few games of the team, with a new coach/system, speaks volumes to how well he prepared himself, on his own, in the offseason.

a lot of players struggled last year, showing signs of having poorly managed their extended time off… for a 23 year old kid to show up better than he's ever been, shows exactly what kind of maturity & professionalism PK ALREADY had, before ever even interacting with his new coach.

the narrative, heavily pushed by MT/MB, that they are responsible for his progression, is beyond laughable.

I'm amazed that some people actually buy it, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.

If you can't see the difference in Subban's play since Therrien took over this team, there is nothing to debate with you. When he was first hired, Therrien described Subban as a thoroughbred needing to be guided and to even suggest that he played no role in his development is simply playing ostrich, putting your head in the sand ignoring the reality. In no way does that take anything away from Subban's character, talent or dedication to improving his game, far from there as to his credit, he obviously did apply what he was asked to do.

I was listening to Rodger Brulotte last night and he brought up a very good point about Therrien's comments about how Subban wouldn't have made Team Canada had he kept playing like he was in October... At the end of Therrien's statement, he said "Trust me on that". Brulotte thinks (and it makes sense) that Therrien knows more than people lead to beleive. He thinks that it was reported to Therrien that Subban had to improve on some aspects of his game, and that he and Subban knew about it and were working together on improving those points. The fact that he was selected could very well be, in part at least, due to the fact that Therrien knew about things to work on and that's what guided his comment about their work with him and would also explain why Subban is so humble in his comments: he knows too.

So while I'm not in the game of taking credit away from Subban, I'm also not ignorant enough to think that Subban got where he is in spite of the coach, far from there.

there is so much fail, so much conjecture, so much lack of sense, in the above post, i don't even know where to begin.

just because you keep repeating the same, baseless, stuff, doesn't make it any more true.

do you know anything about Subban's career progression before last February?

As much as I hated the Subban benching, Gorges brought something to light that got me thinking.

Markov was benched last year, during a game against Toronto, after taking a stupid penalty. No revolt there, no media frenzy asking players why it happened, no radio talk shows blasting the coaching staff. On top of that, it seems like the players understand that if PK got benched, Therrien isn't afraid to bench anyone.

On the subject of the benching itself; it was the wrong move. The team showed absolutely no energy or structure. Nobody, save for three people; Subban, Gallagher, Prust. At the time, Subban was frustrated and threw a punch at Couturier (who, by the way, looked at the ref like a prissy little baby). Was it a bad move? Of course it was. Stupid penalty? You betcha. But Subban demonstrated emotion and showed his energy through a punch that said, "You know what? **** you, I'm pissed and you're ugly." I would have benched Subban if this was a 3-3 hockey game. Down two goals? I'd pat him on the back and tell him that this was the type of energy we needed.

For this argument; I see both sides of the coin. Stupid to bench your best player but maybe this was the right wake-up call the team needed.

There is no issue with a coach benching a player to send a message… and there is definitely some power to holding your stars to a high standard, setting the tone for the rest of the team.

The problem with the Subban benching, vs the Markov example, is that the context was entirely different.

Markov, at the time of his benching, had been struggling (likely tied to the grind of a condensed schedule in his first year back from 2 consecutive major injuries), was playing poorly, and took a selfish penalty.

Subban was one of the best players on the ice during the flyers game, and one of a very select few on our team that was playing with the kind of compete level that MT usually preaches.

In that same game, other players made lazy, selfish mistakes, with no repercussion, including DD making a lazy play early in the game leading directly to a goal.

To on the one hand preach that your team play a "grinding" gritty style with high compete level, and then immediately punish one of the only players actually playing the way you want the team to play, because he crosses the emotional line and makes a mistake….

while on the other hand, do nothing (and even reward, with pp time) to players who are too lazy/disengaged to compete at the level you claim to demand….

that's the kind of crap that, fairly so, draws the attention of everyone.

The decision reaked of "putting him in his place" or "keeping his ego in check", especially since it came immediately after the team canada announcement.

Did not pass the sniff test, hence why MT has been so universally criticized… minus the few apologist who would rather stick to their guns then consider the situation unfolding in front of them.


in the end, the writing is on the wall. MT's been fired before for the very same crap he's pulling now, he'll end up losing the room (or at least some of the key figures in it), and then it's just a question of how long until MB is forced to act.

We can only hope it doesn't cost us a talented, driven, superstar athlete in the process.
 

sheed36

Registered User
Jan 8, 2005
47,035
34,737
No Man's Land
Not contract related but does it irritate anyone else when they read posts from clueless fans on this site when they say Subban can't play defense? They don't back up their statements with any facts to prove it and yet they still keep saying the same thing over and over..

It's obvious the people saying this don't watch the guy play enough.. These people are likely making up their minds based on the BS some in the media say about him being "too risky" and from what far too many other clueless fans spew about him on HF.
 

PsychoticHab

Registered User
May 26, 2012
1,492
178
Ottawa
But who cares about Lidstrom? Is PK Lidstrom? Does he play the same game??
PK is PK. He isn't Bourque, or Leetch, or Lidstrom, or Chara.
Let him play his game. You got to live with the bad because he's going to bring a lot more good than it. You can still help him and try to improve his game, but you don't need to bench him after a bad penalty. I mean really..He's a freaking Norris winner, I can't stress this enough.
And after you bench him? You put him back?? Wow. Great freaking strategy. I'm sure he learned a whole lot there.

In fairness, I'm not the one that brought up watching the tapes of the greats to learn from them. (Which isn't a bad idea I guess)

"Does he play the same game??"

Nope, but then again I never said to emulate his game. I said to learn from Lidstrom in terms of composure and discipline. (You know the guy who has 1 roughing minor his entire career)

As for the benching, Subban currently plays for a coach, Michel Therrien, that thinks that "Being Disciplined" is an entire gameplan and a motivational speech before a game. Are you really that surprised he was then benched for violating that rule? (Especially when his teammates have suffered similar in the past)
 

PsychoticHab

Registered User
May 26, 2012
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178
Ottawa
It's not all bad though... I don't want Subban to try to be Lidstrom anymore than I'd have wanted Chelios to try to be Coffey or Richard to be Beliveau.

You made great points in the rest of your quote but I just want to address something from this line real quick.

I only brought up Lidstrom for, as I mentioned, as an example of a guy Subban could learn from in terms of discipline and composure. (Lidstrom only had one roughing minor in his entire career) I would not want Subban to emulate Lidstrom's play as they are different types of defensemen but I do think he could learn from Lidstrom's personality post-play. As talented as Lidstrom was, another thing that helped him was that he almost never removed himself from the ice in a stupid way.

Now, I wouldn't want Subban to become an angel as that would go against the edge he tries to have in his game but at the very least take a guy with you to the penalty bench if you are going to punch someone.
 

Frozenice

No Reverse Gear
Jan 1, 2010
7,021
521
Phaneuf is making what $7mil? Expect PK to want min 8.5

And how much is Grabovski making now? Or Bozak or Clarkson? If PK wants the stupid money Toronto loves to dish out he probably will have to go play there to get it.

I think the younger RD's that have signed 5-8 year contracts would be PK's comparable for his negotiations.
 

Talks to Goalposts

Registered User
Apr 8, 2011
5,117
371
Edmonton
and I'd add to that, the fact that he came into last season flying, despite both the lock-out and missing the limited practices & first few games of the team, with a new coach/system, speaks volumes to how well he prepared himself, on his own, in the offseason.

a lot of players struggled last year, showing signs of having poorly managed their extended time off… for a 23 year old kid to show up better than he's ever been, shows exactly what kind of maturity & professionalism PK ALREADY had, before ever even interacting with his new coach.

the narrative, heavily pushed by MT/MB, that they are responsible for his progression, is beyond laughable.

I'm amazed that some people actually buy it, despite all of the evidence to the contrary.



there is so much fail, so much conjecture, so much lack of sense, in the above post, i don't even know where to begin.

just because you keep repeating the same, baseless, stuff, doesn't make it any more true.

do you know anything about Subban's career progression before last February?


Not to mention, that Subban started this season playing ludicrously dominant but has fallen off to play some of the least effective minutes in his career over the past couple months.

If Therrien thinks what Subban was doing in October was wrong and how he's playing right now is right then you really have to question if he has any idea whats going on out there in front of him. If this is the benefit of Therrien's coaching then he's better off without a coach compared to him.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
29,798
20,951
And how much is Grabovski making now? Or Bozak or Clarkson? If PK wants the stupid money Toronto loves to dish out he probably will have to go play there to get it.

I think the younger RD's that have signed 5-8 year contracts would be PK's comparable for his negotiations.

He is the best dman in the NHL, he has no injury history, he has only three RFA years left, he is only 24 years old, and he is starting his contract when the cap is at a record high.

8.5 million, minimum.
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
27,396
25,276
Montreal
It's not all bad though... I don't want Subban to try to be Lidstrom anymore than I'd have wanted Chelios to try to be Coffey or Richard to be Beliveau.

PK plays with an edge. For the most part it works for him as he draws more penalties than he takes. He plays with passion and the bigger the game the better he plays. Yes, he's cocky. So was Patrick Roy and to a lesser extent Chris Chelios. Some guys thrive on this and you've got to take the good with the bad. Mario Tremblay believed that Roy's ego had to be cut down to size and came in to "tame" him... we all know how that worked out. Not suggesting that this is what will happen with PK here, just saying that not all players should be handled the same.

This does not excuse the bad penalty (and it was bad) but I don't think that we bench him here. I think we need to do a better job handling this. Like another poster wrote above, pull him aside and tell him: "You put us behind the 8 ball with that stupid penalty, go fix it" and then send him out.

Benching him in that kind of game just doesn't serve any purpose and doesn't do anything to help the team. I get the mentality that MT is saying nobody is bigger than the team - fair enough. But different individuals learn in different ways. And this whole idea that PK needing fixing (which we heard from MT before he'd even coached a game with PK) was probably misplaced to begin with.

The comments we read from MB and MT - basically insinuating that they deserved the credit for Subban being on Team Canada - were brutal. Don't know if those comments had to do with them not wanting to have too big a head after making Canada or if it was to make a point during contract negotiations or what... but those comments were dumb.

What is clear though is that this guy is cocky and we consider this a sin. Maybe we should just let him play cocky. Some guys (Roy) play better that way. Doesn't mean you can't pull them aside when they make a mistake or that we let him do whatever the hell he wants but not all players should be coached the same way.

A lot of posts on this subject, but LG nails it with flawless logic.
 

Frozenice

No Reverse Gear
Jan 1, 2010
7,021
521
He is the best dman in the NHL, he has no injury history, he has only three RFA years left, he is only 24 years old, and he is starting his contract when the cap is at a record high.

8.5 million, minimum.

It's the quoting of what Phaneuf makes that I find irrelevant in the discussion as to what Subban should make on his next contract. If Subban was a UFA and 28 years old maybe we could look at Phaneuf's contract as a comparable.

It's like bringing up what Stamkos makes when discussing what Eller should get on his next contract. I'm glad Stamkos got what he got but it has little or nothing to do with what Eller should be getting.

If I wanted to win the Stanley Cup this year, I'd rather have Keith, Chara or Weber then Subban so I'm not sure how PK's the best D in the NHL right now.
 

Miller Time

Registered User
Sep 16, 2004
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Not to mention, that Subban started this season playing ludicrously dominant but has fallen off to play some of the least effective minutes in his career over the past couple months.

If Therrien thinks what Subban was doing in October was wrong and how he's playing right now is right then you really have to question if he has any idea whats going on out there in front of him. If this is the benefit of Therrien's coaching then he's better off without a coach compared to him.

yet amazingly, Therrien tries to take the credit for Subban making team canada… unbelievable.


I honestly don't know that I've ever seen a coach in a pro sport make such ridiculous and condescending statements. It's like MT is purposely doing everything he can to make sure that Subban (and likely a large chunk of the dressing room) looses all possible respect for him.

sad thing is that with each shot across the bow, Subban & Meehan probably add to their contract demand. With good reason, Subban has no incentive to want to make things easy for the habs to lock him up long-term. His love of playing for the Habs & appreciation of being part of the history tied to the franchise will only go so far… Why bother sticking around an playing for a patronizing jerk, or a GM who sits by and watches (or supports) the behaviour, when you could easily force your hand out of town (be it now or in 2 years), and essentially have your pick of 29 other teams who would be thrilled to bring you in and treat you properly (on top of the taxes/language/marketability benefits he'd have playing elsewhere… can you imagine how marketable he'd be if given the Dion treatment in toronto… or playing in basically any US market outside of Minnesota.
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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Not to mention, that Subban started this season playing ludicrously dominant but has fallen off to play some of the least effective minutes in his career over the past couple months.

If Therrien thinks what Subban was doing in October was wrong and how he's playing right now is right then you really have to question if he has any idea whats going on out there in front of him. If this is the benefit of Therrien's coaching then he's better off without a coach compared to him.

That's what I don't understand really. PK started the year playing some seriously solid hockey. I remember him playing so dominantly that it sparked the debate on whether or not he's actually the best in the NHL. But Therrien was sure to blame him publicly for every wrong, and even went as far as to flat out blame him for losses (win as a team, lose because of one guy, right?)..
It created another debate about WTF is going on between Therrien and PK.
People can say we're just fans, and media folks are just that, media folks, so we don't understand. But it's BS. Therrien isn't this hockey guru that is light years ahead of his time and sees things that most people can't.
People were absolutely right to question the situation. PK was playing great. Not perfect, sure, nobody is, but he was solid. His coach however kept putting him down.
It was just weird and didn't make any sense. It still doesn't.
 

cphabs

The 2 stooges….
Dec 21, 2012
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If someone told me in 2009 that we would have a home grown Norris winner in the year 2013? I would have more than laughed...
 

Kriss E

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May 3, 2007
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If someone told me in 2009 that we would have a home grown Norris winner in the year 2013? I would have more than laughed...

Imagine if you were also told that this Norris winner would also make Team Canada for Sochi the following year.

After all that sunk in, what would you have said if you were also told this Norris winner wasn't trusted in late games to the point where Murray or Bouillon was put in over him, and that he still gets benched???
 

Talks to Goalposts

Registered User
Apr 8, 2011
5,117
371
Edmonton
Imagine if you were also told that this Norris winner would also make Team Canada for Sochi the following year.

After all that sunk in, what would you have said if you were also told this Norris winner wasn't trusted in late games to the point where Murray or Bouillon was put in over him, and that he still gets benched???

Imagine if someone told you that famously conservative and defensive minded Jacques Martin would trust said Norris trophy winner more defensively as a raw rookie than his coach does after the Norris trophy win.

Management has acted in a manner consistent with the idea that they thought he was Michael del Zotto when they got here and he progressed to be Karlsson/Letang when the reality is that he is the same as Doughty/Pietroangelo and has been since he was 21.
 

overlords

#DefundCBC
Aug 16, 2008
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Imagine if someone told you that famously conservative and defensive minded Jacques Martin would trust said Norris trophy winner more defensively as a raw rookie than his coach does after the Norris trophy win.

That's a bit too long for a morpheus meme picture, but that's instantly what I thought of :laugh:
 

Habsterix*

Guest
there is so much fail, so much conjecture, so much lack of sense, in the above post, i don't even know where to begin.

just because you keep repeating the same, baseless, stuff, doesn't make it any more true.

do you know anything about Subban's career progression before last February?
If you cannot see the difference in his game, beyond the talent, let's not waste each other's time. Subban has been coached, I'd even say well coached, and that helped him get to where he is. You call it fail? I call it success. Again, not taking any credit away from Subban, simply acknowledging that he didn't do it alone.
 

Kriss E

Registered User
May 3, 2007
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If you cannot see the difference in his game, beyond the talent, let's not waste each other's time. Subban has been coached, I'd even say well coached, and that helped him get to where he is. You call it fail? I call it success. Again, not taking any credit away from Subban, simply acknowledging that he didn't do it alone.
It's one thing to say PK didn't do it alone, it's another to say, as Therrien did, ''that he wouldn't be on Team Canada if I didn't coach him early''.
It's another to say PK is doing great under Therrien, therefore Therrien deserves much praise.
 

vfactor

Registered User
Dec 8, 2009
875
1
Montreal
The funny thing is Yzerman said that Subban is selected because of his skating and shot which are naturally his strength. Of course playing a solid defense is also a requirement but saying that Subban is in team Canada because of MT is a pretty, I could say, arrogant because we will never know the result of the other possibility.

The debate will never end. The question is Subban, or Habs in general, well coached and progressed as a team. Part of the fan base, me included, says No, the others say Yes. We will never agree because we have our own opinion and observation. That's ok. Forums are great for that. Only time will tell.

I will raise a question: if not for Habs organization with special context, is MT coaching in the NHL right now ?

Second question: is Habs, as a team, is better than last year ? My answer to this question is Carey Price is better than last year.

What people who defends MT and MB don't see is that Subban is not the one who talks about his Norris or his Olympic selection. His reaction to that was pretty formal and compose. However MT and MB make it seem like things got to his head because he wins Norris and got to TC. When did Subban acts like a headcase and make Habs brass look bad ? The only thing he did maybe is winning the Norris as an answer to the bridge contract. Everything said about him always gear toward the perception of a selfish individual who thinks too much of himself and who needs constantly reminder to get back inline. It's like he's labeled as such and that's it...

I like Subban very much as a player and what he shows as a person. One thing I feel pretty much for him is that he took so much craps from everyone since he came into this league. Ok part was his fault but it was pretty minor and nothing was very serious. He just plays with passion night in and out and do his best to improve as a player.

Craps from other teams, media etc. I can understand because of this and that but where it's stupid is that his own team, his own organization seem to give him the same craps. Subban must feel pretty lost.

If everything we see and hear from MB and MT to Subban is 'normal' and nothing special there then I will admit that I have a serious problem of interpretation.
 

Habnot

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Feb 28, 2002
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It's one thing to say PK didn't do it alone, it's another to say, as Therrien did, ''that he wouldn't be on Team Canada if I didn't coach him early''.
It's another to say PK is doing great under Therrien, therefore Therrien deserves much praise.

The funny thing is Yzerman said that Subban is selected because of his skating and shot which are naturally his strength. Of course playing a solid defense is also a requirement but saying that Subban is in team Canada because of MT is a pretty, I could say, arrogant because we will never know the result of the other possibility.

The debate will never end. The question is Subban, or Habs in general, well coached and progressed as a team. Part of the fan base, me included, says No, the others say Yes. We will never agree because we have our own opinion and observation. That's ok. Forums are great for that. Only time will tell.

I will raise a question: if not for Habs organization with special context, is MT coaching in the NHL right now ?

Second question: is Habs, as a team, is better than last year ? My answer to this question is Carey Price is better than last year.

What people who defends MT and MB don't see is that Subban is not the one who talks about his Norris or his Olympic selection. His reaction to that was pretty formal and compose. However MT and MB make it seem like things got to his head because he wins Norris and got to TC. When did Subban acts like a headcase and make Habs brass look bad ? The only thing he did maybe is winning the Norris as an answer to the bridge contract. Everything said about him always gear toward the perception of a selfish individual who thinks too much of himself and who needs constantly reminder to get back inline. It's like he's labeled as such and that's it...

I like Subban very much as a player and what he shows as a person. One thing I feel pretty much for him is that he took so much craps from everyone since he came into this league. Ok part was his fault but it was pretty minor and nothing was very serious. He just plays with passion night in and out and do his best to improve as a player.

Craps from other teams, media etc. I can understand because of this and that but where it's stupid is that his own team, his own organization seem to give him the same craps. Subban must feel pretty lost.

If everything we see and hear from MB and MT to Subban is 'normal' and nothing special there then I will admit that I have a serious problem of interpretation.

This is like the Price scenario all over. The haters hate with such anger and blinders.

It's not the MB & MT cannot do any wrong, many of the non haters have admitted and are aware of their mistakes.

It more the haters that cannot give any credit to the MT or MB no matter what they do.

The reality is somewhere in the middle -MB is a rookie GM with a plan that has been approved by management and he is following a tee. He has made mistakes but all GM's make mistakes (What you can't do is McDonough type mistakes) but they are all secondary type deals. But he;s setting a standard of accountability that was so lacking in the organization.

MT is still MT, a scorpion waiting to sting, but he seems to have a system and when executed, it works. He knows he doesn't have the horses to open it up, playing this way is the only chance they have of making the playoffs (and his regular season record proves it) yet according to the haters, he's the worst coach in the NHL and only is there because he's French and a buddy of MB. To think this means you have no idea of the professionalism of the NHL.
 

habsfanatics*

Registered User
May 20, 2012
5,051
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So because he won this award he's sure to be great all his career and we can't try to improve his weaknesses ?

Does Jonathan Cheechoo rings any bell to you, the guy won the Rocket trophy and scored 56 goals... where is he now ? Nothing prevents Subban from being a fluke... he still has a lot to learn.

News: s-r blog:Neil Paine Joining FiveThirtyEight

NHL James Norris Memorial Trophy Winners

Top Defenseman

James Norris Memorial Trophy Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ?
Season Lg Player Age Tm Pos G A PTS +/- OPS DPS GPS PS
2012-13 NHL P.K. Subban 23 MTL D 11 27 38 12 4.3 2.8 0.0 7.1
2011-12 NHL Erik Karlsson 21 OTT D 19 59 78 16 8.6 4.5 0.0 13.1
2010-11 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 40 DET D 16 46 62 -2 6.2 3.3 0.0 9.5
2009-10 NHL Duncan Keith 26 CHI D 14 55 69 21 6.3 6.2 0.0 12.6
2008-09 NHL Zdeno Chara 31 BOS D 19 31 50 23 4.8 5.7 0.0 10.5
2007-08 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 37 DET D 10 60 70 40 6.4 8.1 0.0 14.4
2006-07 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 36 DET D 13 49 62 40 5.3 7.9 0.0 13.1
2005-06 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 35 DET D 16 64 80 21 6.8 6.1 0.0 12.9
2003-04 NHL Scott Niedermayer 30 NJD D 14 40 54 20 5.1 6.9 0.0 12.0
2002-03 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 32 DET D 18 44 62 40 6.1 7.1 0.0 13.2
2001-02 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 31 DET D 9 50 59 13 5.0 5.5 0.0 10.5
2000-01 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 30 DET D 15 56 71 9 6.4 5.8 0.0 12.2
1999-00 NHL Chris Pronger 25 STL D 14 48 62 52 5.2 9.6 0.0 14.8
1998-99 NHL Al MacInnis 35 STL D 20 42 62 33 6.0 7.7 0.0 13.6
1997-98 NHL Rob Blake 28 LAK D 23 27 50 -3 5.9 3.0 0.0 8.8
1996-97 NHL Brian Leetch 28 NYR D 20 58 78 31 7.5 5.6 0.0 13.1
1995-96 NHL Chris Chelios 34 CHI D 14 58 72 25 5.7 5.6 0.0 11.3
1994-95 NHL Paul Coffey 33 DET D 14 44 58 18 5.5 3.5 0.0 9.0
1993-94 NHL Raymond Bourque 33 BOS D 20 71 91 26 7.8 5.7 0.0 13.5
1992-93 NHL Chris Chelios 31 CHI D 15 58 73 14 4.8 6.3 0.0 11.1
1991-92 NHL Brian Leetch 23 NYR D 22 80 102 25 8.1 5.1 0.0 13.2
1990-91 NHL Raymond Bourque 30 BOS D 21 73 94 33 7.6 5.6 0.0 13.2
1989-90 NHL Raymond Bourque 29 BOS D 19 65 84 31 6.1 6.4 0.0 12.5
1988-89 NHL Chris Chelios 27 MTL D 15 58 73 35 4.8 6.7 0.0 11.5
1987-88 NHL Raymond Bourque 27 BOS D 17 64 81 34 5.5 6.2 0.0 11.7
1986-87 NHL Raymond Bourque 26 BOS D 23 72 95 44 7.2 6.4 0.0 13.5
1985-86 NHL Paul Coffey 24 EDM D 48 90 138 61 11.0 5.1 0.0 16.1
1984-85 NHL Paul Coffey 23 EDM D 37 84 121 55 9.5 5.3 0.0 14.8
1983-84 NHL Rod Langway 26 WSH D 9 24 33 14 1.2 6.3 0.0 7.5
1982-83 NHL Rod Langway 25 WSH D 3 29 32 0 0.9 4.5 0.0 5.4
1981-82 NHL Doug Wilson 24 CBH D 39 46 85 1 6.9 3.4 0.0 10.4
1980-81 NHL Randy Carlyle 24 PIT D 16 67 83 -16 5.4 3.0 0.0 8.5
1979-80 NHL Larry Robinson 28 MTL D 14 61 75 38 5.5 5.9 0.0 11.4
1978-79 NHL Denis Potvin 25 NYI D 31 70 101 71 8.6 7.3 0.0 15.9
1977-78 NHL Denis Potvin 24 NYI D 30 64 94 57 8.4 7.0 0.0 15.5
1976-77 NHL Larry Robinson 25 MTL D 19 66 85 120 7.1 9.9 0.0 16.9
1975-76 NHL Denis Potvin 22 NYI D 31 67 98 12 8.7 5.6 0.0 14.3
1974-75 NHL Bobby Orr 26 BOS D 46 89 135 80 13.1 8.4 0.0 21.5
1973-74 NHL Bobby Orr 25 BOS D 32 90 122 84 11.7 7.7 0.0 19.4
1972-73 NHL Bobby Orr 24 BOS D 29 72 101 56 9.5 6.1 0.0 15.6
1971-72 NHL Bobby Orr 23 BOS D 37 80 117 86 12.0 8.3 0.0 20.3
1970-71 NHL Bobby Orr 22 BOS D 37 102 139 124 13.5 9.4 0.0 22.9
1969-70 NHL Bobby Orr 21 BOS D 33 87 120 54 12.8 6.7 0.0 19.6
1968-69 NHL Bobby Orr 20 BOS D 21 43 64 65 6.5 6.5 0.0 13.0
1967-68 NHL Bobby Orr 19 BOS D 11 20 31 30 3.3 3.6 0.0 6.9
1966-67 NHL Harry Howell 34 NYR D 12 28 40 0 3.4 4.8 0.0 8.2
1965-66 NHL Jacques Laperriere 24 MTL D 6 25 31 0 2.3 4.2 0.0 6.5
1964-65 NHL Pierre Pilote 33 CBH D 14 45 59 0 5.8 4.9 0.0 10.6
1963-64 NHL Pierre Pilote 32 CBH D 7 46 53 0 4.6 5.0 0.0 9.6
1962-63 NHL Pierre Pilote 31 CBH D 8 18 26 0 2.0 4.1 0.0 6.1
1961-62 NHL Doug Harvey 37 NYR D 6 24 30 0 1.9 4.3 0.0 6.2
1960-61 NHL Doug Harvey 36 MTL D 6 33 39 0 3.1 3.8 0.0 7.0
1959-60 NHL Doug Harvey 35 MTL D 6 21 27 0 1.8 4.6 0.0 6.4
1958-59 NHL Tom Johnson 30 MTL D 10 29 39 0 3.3 5.5 0.0 8.8
1957-58 NHL Doug Harvey 33 MTL D 9 32 41 0 3.6 5.4 0.0 9.0
1956-57 NHL Doug Harvey 32 MTL D 6 44 50 0 4.4 5.5 0.0 9.9
1955-56 NHL Doug Harvey 31 MTL D 5 39 44 0 4.1 5.5 0.0 9.6
1954-55 NHL Doug Harvey 30 MTL D 6 43 49 0 4.4 5.2 0.0 9.7
1953-54 NHL Red Kelly 26 DET D 16 33 49 0 6.2 5.1 0.0 11.3

Care to highlight the flukes?
 

Phil Parent

Sorel, 'fant d'chienne!
Feb 4, 2005
15,833
5,666
Sorel-Tracy, Quebec
News: s-r blog:Neil Paine Joining FiveThirtyEight

NHL James Norris Memorial Trophy Winners

Top Defenseman

James Norris Memorial Trophy Glossary · SHARE · Embed · CSV · PRE · LINK · ?
Season Lg Player Age Tm Pos G A PTS +/- OPS DPS GPS PS
2012-13 NHL P.K. Subban 23 MTL D 11 27 38 12 4.3 2.8 0.0 7.1
2011-12 NHL Erik Karlsson 21 OTT D 19 59 78 16 8.6 4.5 0.0 13.1
2010-11 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 40 DET D 16 46 62 -2 6.2 3.3 0.0 9.5
2009-10 NHL Duncan Keith 26 CHI D 14 55 69 21 6.3 6.2 0.0 12.6
2008-09 NHL Zdeno Chara 31 BOS D 19 31 50 23 4.8 5.7 0.0 10.5
2007-08 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 37 DET D 10 60 70 40 6.4 8.1 0.0 14.4
2006-07 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 36 DET D 13 49 62 40 5.3 7.9 0.0 13.1
2005-06 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 35 DET D 16 64 80 21 6.8 6.1 0.0 12.9
2003-04 NHL Scott Niedermayer 30 NJD D 14 40 54 20 5.1 6.9 0.0 12.0
2002-03 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 32 DET D 18 44 62 40 6.1 7.1 0.0 13.2
2001-02 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 31 DET D 9 50 59 13 5.0 5.5 0.0 10.5
2000-01 NHL Nicklas Lidstrom 30 DET D 15 56 71 9 6.4 5.8 0.0 12.2
1999-00 NHL Chris Pronger 25 STL D 14 48 62 52 5.2 9.6 0.0 14.8
1998-99 NHL Al MacInnis 35 STL D 20 42 62 33 6.0 7.7 0.0 13.6
1997-98 NHL Rob Blake 28 LAK D 23 27 50 -3 5.9 3.0 0.0 8.8
1996-97 NHL Brian Leetch 28 NYR D 20 58 78 31 7.5 5.6 0.0 13.1
1995-96 NHL Chris Chelios 34 CHI D 14 58 72 25 5.7 5.6 0.0 11.3
1994-95 NHL Paul Coffey 33 DET D 14 44 58 18 5.5 3.5 0.0 9.0
1993-94 NHL Raymond Bourque 33 BOS D 20 71 91 26 7.8 5.7 0.0 13.5
1992-93 NHL Chris Chelios 31 CHI D 15 58 73 14 4.8 6.3 0.0 11.1
1991-92 NHL Brian Leetch 23 NYR D 22 80 102 25 8.1 5.1 0.0 13.2
1990-91 NHL Raymond Bourque 30 BOS D 21 73 94 33 7.6 5.6 0.0 13.2
1989-90 NHL Raymond Bourque 29 BOS D 19 65 84 31 6.1 6.4 0.0 12.5
1988-89 NHL Chris Chelios 27 MTL D 15 58 73 35 4.8 6.7 0.0 11.5
1987-88 NHL Raymond Bourque 27 BOS D 17 64 81 34 5.5 6.2 0.0 11.7
1986-87 NHL Raymond Bourque 26 BOS D 23 72 95 44 7.2 6.4 0.0 13.5
1985-86 NHL Paul Coffey 24 EDM D 48 90 138 61 11.0 5.1 0.0 16.1
1984-85 NHL Paul Coffey 23 EDM D 37 84 121 55 9.5 5.3 0.0 14.8
1983-84 NHL Rod Langway 26 WSH D 9 24 33 14 1.2 6.3 0.0 7.5
1982-83 NHL Rod Langway 25 WSH D 3 29 32 0 0.9 4.5 0.0 5.4
1981-82 NHL Doug Wilson 24 CBH D 39 46 85 1 6.9 3.4 0.0 10.4
1980-81 NHL Randy Carlyle 24 PIT D 16 67 83 -16 5.4 3.0 0.0 8.5
1979-80 NHL Larry Robinson 28 MTL D 14 61 75 38 5.5 5.9 0.0 11.4
1978-79 NHL Denis Potvin 25 NYI D 31 70 101 71 8.6 7.3 0.0 15.9
1977-78 NHL Denis Potvin 24 NYI D 30 64 94 57 8.4 7.0 0.0 15.5
1976-77 NHL Larry Robinson 25 MTL D 19 66 85 120 7.1 9.9 0.0 16.9
1975-76 NHL Denis Potvin 22 NYI D 31 67 98 12 8.7 5.6 0.0 14.3
1974-75 NHL Bobby Orr 26 BOS D 46 89 135 80 13.1 8.4 0.0 21.5
1973-74 NHL Bobby Orr 25 BOS D 32 90 122 84 11.7 7.7 0.0 19.4
1972-73 NHL Bobby Orr 24 BOS D 29 72 101 56 9.5 6.1 0.0 15.6
1971-72 NHL Bobby Orr 23 BOS D 37 80 117 86 12.0 8.3 0.0 20.3
1970-71 NHL Bobby Orr 22 BOS D 37 102 139 124 13.5 9.4 0.0 22.9
1969-70 NHL Bobby Orr 21 BOS D 33 87 120 54 12.8 6.7 0.0 19.6
1968-69 NHL Bobby Orr 20 BOS D 21 43 64 65 6.5 6.5 0.0 13.0
1967-68 NHL Bobby Orr 19 BOS D 11 20 31 30 3.3 3.6 0.0 6.9
1966-67 NHL Harry Howell 34 NYR D 12 28 40 0 3.4 4.8 0.0 8.2
1965-66 NHL Jacques Laperriere 24 MTL D 6 25 31 0 2.3 4.2 0.0 6.5
1964-65 NHL Pierre Pilote 33 CBH D 14 45 59 0 5.8 4.9 0.0 10.6
1963-64 NHL Pierre Pilote 32 CBH D 7 46 53 0 4.6 5.0 0.0 9.6
1962-63 NHL Pierre Pilote 31 CBH D 8 18 26 0 2.0 4.1 0.0 6.1
1961-62 NHL Doug Harvey 37 NYR D 6 24 30 0 1.9 4.3 0.0 6.2
1960-61 NHL Doug Harvey 36 MTL D 6 33 39 0 3.1 3.8 0.0 7.0
1959-60 NHL Doug Harvey 35 MTL D 6 21 27 0 1.8 4.6 0.0 6.4
1958-59 NHL Tom Johnson 30 MTL D 10 29 39 0 3.3 5.5 0.0 8.8
1957-58 NHL Doug Harvey 33 MTL D 9 32 41 0 3.6 5.4 0.0 9.0
1956-57 NHL Doug Harvey 32 MTL D 6 44 50 0 4.4 5.5 0.0 9.9
1955-56 NHL Doug Harvey 31 MTL D 5 39 44 0 4.1 5.5 0.0 9.6
1954-55 NHL Doug Harvey 30 MTL D 6 43 49 0 4.4 5.2 0.0 9.7
1953-54 NHL Red Kelly 26 DET D 16 33 49 0 6.2 5.1 0.0 11.3

Care to highlight the flukes?

MAN, Coffey must have been pissed to miss beating Orr's best season by one MEASLY point.
 

habsfanatics*

Registered User
May 20, 2012
5,051
1
That's what I don't understand really. PK started the year playing some seriously solid hockey. I remember him playing so dominantly that it sparked the debate on whether or not he's actually the best in the NHL. But Therrien was sure to blame him publicly for every wrong, and even went as far as to flat out blame him for losses (win as a team, lose because of one guy, right?)..
It created another debate about WTF is going on between Therrien and PK.
People can say we're just fans, and media folks are just that, media folks, so we don't understand. But it's BS. Therrien isn't this hockey guru that is light years ahead of his time and sees things that most people can't.
People were absolutely right to question the situation. PK was playing great. Not perfect, sure, nobody is, but he was solid. His coach however kept putting him down.
It was just weird and didn't make any sense. It still doesn't.

PK's play has regressed since the start of the year, he's still highly effective, but MT claiming that PK is now doing things the way he needs to compared to October where he was once again putting on a hockey clinic is absurd.

This guy doesn't know what the **** he's even watching. He needs to go. As bad as he is, I'm thinknig the GM might even be worse, although I'll give MB a bit of leash here, he needs to start proving his worth at some point, so far he's stunk too.
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
27,396
25,276
Montreal
I will raise a question: if not for Habs organization with special context, is MT coaching in the NHL right now ?

Probably, yes. He had success in Pittsburgh, and has a good rep with developing young talent. There are plenty of worse options. Word is his "Sell-By" date is approximately two years, because supposedly his message gets stale and the players tune out. I can see this happening here.

Second question: is Habs, as a team, is better than last year ? My answer to this question is Carey Price is better than last year.

Price is as good as last year, minus the bad games. In other words, he's been much more consistent.

After him, the team is about the same. Problem is the other teams have choked off our fast transition game and made life tougher for our D, which leads to bad passing and missed clearing attempts. Playing us tight has created a huge gap between our D and our forwards, so our offense has suffered. Our weakness has been exposed; the question becomes what we do to adapt.
 

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