Speculation: Still Still Much Ado About Kovy - Still still still in Russia

[Eric Sachs]

The thing is, you're not choosing between any asset and no asset. That's not how it works. You're choosing to continue the negotiation or not.

If a team comes to Shero and offers a 4th, he's not going to say no and never talk to them again.. just accepting no assets. He's going to say no and try to use his leverage to get a better offer from them. Maybe it works and we walk away with a 2nd. Maybe it doesn't and we walk away with nothing (or, more realistically, the original offer). It's a game of chicken and given the team acquiring Kovalchuk is the one with more to lose as they are theoretically contending now if they are even thinking of Kovalchuk making sense.. I like Shero's chances.

The choice is between accepting a sub-par asset or risking getting nothing by asking for more. It's not something vs. nothing.

 

[Billdo]

The thing is, you're not choosing between any asset and no asset. That's not how it works. You're choosing to continue the negotiation or not.

If a team comes to Shero and offers a 4th, he's not going to say no and never talk to them again.. just accepting no assets. He's going to say no and try to use his leverage to get a better offer from them. Maybe it works and we walk away with a 2nd. Maybe it doesn't and we walk away with nothing (or, more realistically, the original offer). It's a game of chicken and given the team acquiring Kovalchuk is the one with more to lose as they are theoretically contending now if they are even thinking of Kovalchuk making sense.. I like Shero's chances.

The choice is between accepting a sub-par asset or risking getting nothing by asking for more. It's not something vs. nothing.

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. A sub par asset is something, while telling him they couldn't get value leaves them with nothing. Obviously there is a negotiation but at the end of the day, a sub par asset is still an asset. Again, I'm not saying to give him to a rival for a third or 4th but if an out of division team starts at a 5th or 6th and they wind up agreeing on a 3rd/4th/middling prospect, I think you take it because it actually is SOMETHING, regardless of the value while Kovy sitting in Russia actually leaves us with nothing.

 

[Eric Sachs]

This is just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point. A sub par asset is something, while telling him they couldn't get value leaves them with nothing. Obviously there is a negotiation but at the end of the day, a sub par asset is still an asset. Again, I'm not saying to give him to a rival for a third or 4th but if an out of division team starts at a 5th or 6th and they wind up agreeing on a 3rd/4th/middling prospect, I think you take it because it actually is SOMETHING, regardless of the value while Kovy sitting in Russia actually leaves us with nothing.

I've never said otherwise and I'm not sure what exactly your second sentence means, honestly. But that situation is EXACTLY what i have been saying would likely happen. In that situation, Shero is demanding more than a 5th or 6th and risks the other team just walking away completely.

My point is you aren't choosing something or nothing. That would be foolish because of course you take something over nothing. You are choosing to pursue getting more and risking getting nothing.. that's a big distinction that is important to make because otherwise, you aren't recognizing negotiation exists here.

It's really not hard to figure out what will happen. Shero will try to get the best deal possible until he feels like 1) his price has been met and/or 2) the other team is unlikely to offer more. Where that leaves the final price is unknown because it largely depends on Shero and the other team's valuations.

 

[Billdo]

I've never said otherwise and I'm not sure what exactly your second sentence means, honestly. But that situation is EXACTLY what i have been saying would likely happen. In that situation, Shero is demanding more than a 5th or 6th and risks the other team just walking away completely.

My point is you aren't choosing something or nothing. That would be foolish because of course you take something over nothing. You are choosing to pursue getting more and risking getting nothing.. that's a big distinction that is important to make because otherwise, you aren't recognizing negotiation exists here.

It's really not hard to figure out what will happen. Shero will try to get the best deal possible until he feels like 1) his price has been met and/or 2) the other team is unlikely to offer more. Where that leaves the final price is unknown because it largely depends on Shero and the other team's valuations.

My last few posts aren't necessarily directed towards you, my apologies, but moreso the poster saying that they'd rather get nothing over a 3rd or 4th by having him stay in Russia to "prove a point."

 

[Smitty426]

That's true but Shero won't keep a 34 year old Kovalchuk from returning to the NHL.

If Kovalchuk picks a team and tells Shero he wants to join that team, Shero will negotiate and settle on whatever that team is willing to give up.

There is no room for Ray to negotiate. Anything you guys get for Ilya is a bonus.

Wow you just repeat yourself hete and the main board, guess you don't want Kovy huh?

 

[McMatthews]

Wow you just repeat yourself hete and the main board, guess you don't want Kovy huh?

I've wanted Kovalchuk since 2001.

I hope he comes to Toronto but I really can't see the logic in saying Shero should hold out for an unrealistic return and risk losing his rights for absolutely nothing.

Whatever happens, happens.

We'll see soon enough.

 

[theoptimist]

Shero wants a player coming back that can slot right into the lineup. No picks.

 

[TheUnseenHand]

My point is that it's naive to think other teams won't use the fact that any return is better than no return as a bargaining chip. I'd tell the rags, flyers, pens or isles to go **** themselves if they offered a 3rd or 4th round pick for sure because screw them. But non-rival teams are going to bid low knowing the situation. Of course Shero will counteroffer and negotiations will take place. However, there is no doubt that knowing he can come back next year without returning anything to the Devils lowers his value to some extent. We just don't know to what extent that is. The ideal situation would be to have multiple teams interested where Kovy agrees to go and start a bidding war. That's the only scenario I see returning fair value for him.

 

[Sgt Brylin]

I've wanted Kovalchuk since 2001.

I hope he comes to Toronto but I really can't see the logic in saying Shero should hold out for an unrealistic return and risk losing his rights for absolutely nothing.

Whatever happens, happens.

We'll see soon enough.

We'll take JVR off your hands, sounds good?

 

[Smitty426]

My point is that it's naive to think other teams won't use the fact that any return is better than no return as a bargaining chip. I'd tell the rags, flyers, pens or isles to go **** themselves if they offered a 3rd or 4th round pick for sure because screw them. But non-rival teams are going to bid low knowing the situation. Of course Shero will counteroffer and negotiations will take place. However, there is no doubt that knowing he can come back next year without returning anything to the Devils lowers his value to some extent. We just don't know to what extent that is. The ideal situation would be to have multiple teams interested where Kovy agrees to go and start a bidding war. That's the only scenario I see returning fair value for him.

The 35+ contract he will sign the following yr. neutralizes that part about lower value, not to mention an additional yr played
But I get your point

 

[johnny pierogi]

We'll take JVR off your hands, sounds good?

You could ice a pretty f'in good team with some Jersey born or "raised" players

JVR
TVR
J. Carlson
Palmieri
B. Ryan
Gaudreau
Shattenkirk

might be forgetting a couple

 

[MartyOwns]

I've wanted Kovalchuk since 2001.

I hope he comes to Toronto but I really can't see the logic in saying Shero should hold out for an unrealistic return and risk losing his rights for absolutely nothing.

Whatever happens, happens.

We'll see soon enough.

i would be absolutely shocked if Lou offers used toilet paper for kovy. i think there's less of chance he ends up on the leafs than the devils, for a lot of reasons.

 

[JrFischer54]

i would be absolutely shocked if Lou offers used toilet paper for kovy. i think there's less of chance he ends up on the leafs than the devils, for a lot of reasons.

Any team that made the playoffs last year would be foolish to not try and trade for kovy. He will improve their power play and at the least put up 45pts. That should come at a price of a legit prospect and a first round pick. that's not much imo for a team that's playoff bound and looking for a piece to take them to the next level.

I didn't watch all the playoffs but I know the rangers lack of power play hurt them and the same with Ottawa.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Any team that made the playoffs last year would be foolish to not try and trade for kovy. He will improve their power play and at the least put up 45pts. That should come at a price of a legit prospect and a first round pick. that's not much imo for a team that's playoff bound and looking for a piece to take them to the next level.

I didn't watch all the playoffs but I know the rangers lack of power play hurt them and the same with Ottawa.

I think you need to SERIOUSLY temper your expectations....

 

[JrFischer54]

I think you need to SERIOUSLY temper your expectations....

O man will I finally get a straight answer from you?


What do you think the return is on kovy being dealt.

 

[Merrills Marauders]

i'm hoping for a 2nd rounder, out of division. done deal and move on.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

O man will I finally get a straight answer from you?


What do you think the return is on kovy being dealt.

I think the absolute MOST we would get is a late 1st. More likely probably a 2nd + average prospect.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

There's just no way to set a barometer for the return. Debating it is pretty pointless.

 

[JrFischer54]

I think the absolute MOST we would get is a late 1st. More likely probably a 2nd + average prospect.

Lol and I have to tone down my expectations? A first rounder from a current playoff team is going to end up being a pick late in the first round so we both agree on that. The only difference is the level of prospect lol. At least I got a straight answer from you

I could see a 1st and a middle prospect or

A 2nd and a better prospect

That's my two options given to teams they don't want it then kovy plays here. If he doesn't then let him go to Russia.

 

[Brooklyndevil]

I think the absolute MOST we would get is a late 1st. More likely probably a 2nd + average prospect.

Nothing wrong with that return.

 

[JrFischer54]

There's just no way to set a barometer for the return. Debating it is pretty pointless.

THen they should just close this thread since everything being discussed oN here is hypocritical

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

THen they should just close this thread since everything being discussed oN here is hypocritical

This thread has much more to it than just the discussion of a potential return.

 

[MartyOwns]

Any team that made the playoffs last year would be foolish to not try and trade for kovy. He will improve their power play and at the least put up 45pts. That should come at a price of a legit prospect and a first round pick. that's not much imo for a team that's playoff bound and looking for a piece to take them to the next level.

I didn't watch all the playoffs but I know the rangers lack of power play hurt them and the same with Ottawa.

oh i'm not saying toronto wouldn't benefit from having kovy, but given the youth on that team and the principles lou is undoubtedly trying to instill in them, i don't think he would go for it. even without factoring in the nonsense that went on last time, which i think is common knowledge (vanderbeek pushing for kovy & the ensuing drama)

 

[Billdo]

O man will I finally get a straight answer from you?


What do you think the return is on kovy being dealt.

There's no way we get a first and a legit prospect.

 

[None Shall Pass]

Larry Brooks‏
@NYP_Brooksie
Following
More
How much has Tortorella changed? Enough so that Jackets have inquired about Kovalchuk's interest in coming to Columbus, Post has learned.