Speculation: Still Still Much Ado About Kovy - Still still still in Russia

[Eric Sachs]

My favorite part of that post was Brooks suggesting Lindberg would be a legitimate candidate for a top 6 role here. He'd be a good third liner but there's no shot he would even get a look at a top 6 spot, let alone compete for one.

Maybe if he was a righty shot but as a leftie/center, absolutely no chance. He's not beating out Hall, Zacha, Henrique or Zajac.. let alone whoever we pick at 1OA and any other prospects coming up.

 

[EnglishDevil]

My favorite part of that post was Brooks suggesting Lindberg would be a legitimate candidate for a top 6 role here. He'd be a good third liner but there's no shot he would even get a look at a top 6 spot, let alone compete for one.

My favourite part was this:

So under this scenario, what could be considered fair value from the Rangers?

The young A- and B-listers — including Brady Skjei, Chris Kreider, J.T. Miller, Kevin Hayes, Jimmy Vesey and Pavel Buchnevich — are off the table.

So he can't be traded for 2017 picks and everything on their NHL roster that would be of interest to us is 'off the table'.

In that case Kovalchuk is 'off the table' too, i'd rather him go pound sand in the KHL for another year than give him away for next to nothing to a divisional rival, he's still an incredibly talented player. We aren't in the business of improving one of our fiercest competitors just to get scraps like Lindberg in return

 

[McMatthews]

Swing for the fences

- Kapanen
- Dunn

You're not getting Kapanen for Kovalchuk.

Even Shero came out and said Kovalchuk drives the bus.

He'll pick a team and Shero will get whatever he can from that team.

It won't be a Kapanen.

Maybe a Leipsic or Rychel.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

You're not getting Kapanen for Kovalchuk.

Even Shero came out and said Kovalchuk drives the bus.

He'll pick a team and Shero will get whatever he can from that team.

It won't be a Kapanen.

Maybe a Leipsic or Rychel.

This is where you're wrong.

Shero has said multiple times that the deal has to make sense for the Devils. If it doesn't, he doesn't have to make any deal. We don't owe Kovalchuk anything

 

[TheUnseenHand]

This is where you're wrong.

Shero has said multiple times that the deal has to make sense for the Devils. If it doesn't, he doesn't have to make any deal. We don't owe Kovalchuk anything

Literally anything is better than nothing, and other teams know that.

 

[McMatthews]

This is where you're wrong.

Shero has said multiple times that the deal has to make sense for the Devils. If it doesn't, he doesn't have to make any deal. We don't owe Kovalchuk anything

That's true but Shero won't keep a 34 year old Kovalchuk from returning to the NHL.

If Kovalchuk picks a team and tells Shero he wants to join that team, Shero will negotiate and settle on whatever that team is willing to give up.

There is no room for Ray to negotiate. Anything you guys get for Ilya is a bonus.

 

[NJDevs26]

That's true but Shero won't keep a 34 year old Kovalchuk from returning to the NHL.

If Kovalchuk picks a team and tells Shero he wants to join that team, Shero will negotiate and settle on whatever that team is willing to give up.

There is no room for Ray to negotiate. Anything you guys get for Ilya is a bonus.

Why wouldn't he? If he says he only wants to go to the Rangers and they're offering some lower 3rd round pick, you think Shero wouldn't just tell him to go scratch for a year? If he wants to play in the NHL, he's gotta work with us a little too.

 

[Eric Sachs]

That's true but Shero won't keep a 34 year old Kovalchuk from returning to the NHL.

If Kovalchuk picks a team and tells Shero he wants to join that team, Shero will negotiate and settle on whatever that team is willing to give up.

There is no room for Ray to negotiate. Anything you guys get for Ilya is a bonus.

Shero will do what this poster says or else!!!!



I do love how you somehow ****ing contradicted yourself in a three sentence post. You really didn't think this one through, did you? In the span of about 15 words, you said Shero will negotiate and Shero can't negotiate.. it's impressive actually. Like, bravo.

 

[McMatthews]

Why wouldn't he? If he says he only wants to go to the Rangers and they're offering some lower 3rd round pick, you think Shero wouldn't just tell him to go scratch for a year? If he wants to play in the NHL, he's gotta work with us a little too.

I think if NYR offers a 3rd, Shero takes it and moves on.

A 3rd round pick is better than dealing with the scrutiny of being the GM that kept Kovalchuk from coming back to the NHL.

 

[Eric Sachs]

You're not getting Kapanen for Kovalchuk.

Even Shero came out and said Kovalchuk drives the bus.

He'll pick a team and Shero will get whatever he can from that team.

It won't be a Kapanen.

Maybe a Leipsic or Rychel.

Maybe you should keep reading that quote from Shero? I dunno, it's useful to actually read the whole sentence sometimes.

"As far as I know, that's still the plan," Shero told NHL.com at the NHL Scouting Combine on Thursday. "Kovalchuk kind of drives the bus on this in terms of talking to teams or where he could want to play."

"I can't go out calling teams because that's a waste of my time," Shero said. "He's going to tell [us] where he wants to play, and in the end, if that does work out and it's not the Devils, then I've got to see if that makes sense for us to do that."

Lot to read so here's the important part again:

"then I've got to see if that makes sense for us to do that."

Only in your wildest misconceptions and horrific logic is Shero going to trade Kovalchuk for whatever he can get, no matter how worthless that may be.

 

[Eric Sachs]

I think if NYR offers a 3rd, Shero takes it and moves on.

A 3rd round pick is better than dealing with the scrutiny of being the GM that kept Kovalchuk from coming back to the NHL.

It keeps getting better

Is that going to go on his tombstone?

"Here lies Ray Shero, the GM that forced Ilya Kovalchuk to wait a year before returning to the NHL after he bolted for the KHL for three years. He was never respected as a GM again and died alone."

 

[McMatthews]

Maybe you should keep reading that quote from Shero? I dunno, it's useful to actually read the whole sentence sometimes.

"As far as I know, that's still the plan," Shero told NHL.com at the NHL Scouting Combine on Thursday. "Kovalchuk kind of drives the bus on this in terms of talking to teams or where he could want to play."

"I can't go out calling teams because that's a waste of my time," Shero said. "He's going to tell [us] where he wants to play, and in the end, if that does work out and it's not the Devils, then I've got to see if that makes sense for us to do that."

Lot to read so here's the important part again:

"then I've got to see if that makes sense for us to do that."

Only in your wildest misconceptions and horrific logic is Shero going to trade Kovalchuk for whatever he can get, no matter how worthless that may be.

If NYR tries to give Shero a 7th round pick or a crappy player, he should stand his ground and put the pressure on NYR and Kovalchuk to get something better.

If NYR offers a 3rd round pick, Shero should take it.

I'm not sure what you think Kovalchuk's value is but it's not much higher than a 3rd or a late 2nd or a prospect of equal value.

 

[VoidCreature]

If NYR tries to give Shero a 7th round pick or a crappy player, he should stand his ground and put the pressure on NYR and Kovalchuk to get something better.

If NYR offers a 3rd round pick, Shero should take it.

I'm not sure what you think Kovalchuk's value is but it's not much higher than a 3rd or a late 2nd or a prospect of equal value.

That's not enough from the Rangers. I'd rather let him tumble in the wind than see him help the Rangers on a less than stellar return.

 

[McMatthews]

That's not enough from the Rangers. I'd rather let him tumble in the wind than see him help the Rangers on a less than stellar return.

I guess you're right, because of the rivalry.

Hypothetically, if it was another non-rival team, I stand by my point.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

That's true but Shero won't keep a 34 year old Kovalchuk from returning to the NHL.

If Kovalchuk picks a team and tells Shero he wants to join that team, Shero will negotiate and settle on whatever that team is willing to give up.

There is no room for Ray to negotiate. Anything you guys get for Ilya is a bonus.

This is false. Shero has plenty of leverage here just as a team that holds the rights to an RFA does, except maybe moreso, in that another team can't do an offer sheet. If Kovy wants to play in the NHL this year before having to sign a 35+ deal, Shero holds the cards.

And Shero certainly will not do anything that might make the Rangers a better team with minimal return. Only Ranger fans who think the world revolves around them don't get this.

 

[Billdo]

Literally anything is better than nothing, and other teams know that.

This is what I've been saying the entire time. Swallow your pride and take whatever you can get for him while hoping he sucks. If the best is a 3rd you take it. What's the point of saying eff off when you can get SOMETHING for him. Now I'm not saying throw him away for a 7th but at the end of the day if a 3rd or 4th is all we can, you take it IMO.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

This is what I've been saying the entire time. Swallow your pride and take whatever you can get for him while hoping he sucks. If the best is a 3rd you take it. What's the point of saying eff off when you can get SOMETHING for him. Now I'm not saying throw him away for a 7th but at the end of the day if a 3rd or 4th is all we can, you take it IMO.

You are basically giving away anything if all you're getting is a 3rd or especially a 4th.

Or you're saying you would trade Kobalchuk for the same return as Vernon *** Fiddler. If Shero did that, he's the worst negotiator ever and should be fired immediately.

 

[Billdo]

You are basically giving away anything if all you're getting is a 3rd or especially a 4th.

Or you're saying you would trade Kobalchuk for the same return as Vernon *** Fiddler. If Shero did that, he's the worst negotiator ever and should be fired immediately.

If the choice is between absolutely nothing or a 3rd/4th, you're saying you'd rather take the nothing?

 

[Setec Astronomy]

If the choice is between absolutely nothing or a 3rd/4th, you're saying you'd rather take the nothing?

To make a point, absolutely.

 

[Billdo]

To make a point, absolutely.

A point to who, exactly?

 

[EnglishDevil]

If the choice is between absolutely nothing or a 3rd/4th, you're saying you'd rather take the nothing?

We made 9 picks last year (an extra 3rd & 4th), have 11 this year (an extra 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 6th) and 9 in 2018 (an extra 2nd & 3rd).

A 3rd/4th round pick in 2018 is barely worth it to us at this point, the rebuild is already off the ground, we don't need to continue making 10 picks every single year.

If he's not bringing back something of actual value, either a 2018 first or an immediate NHL contributor, then i'd rather he stay in Russia for another year. Why would we help out our direct competition for no reason other than some misguided sense of obligation to do right by a guy who voluntarily bailed on our team in the first place?

They either make it worth our while, or we smile and say no thanks. The majority of us wrote Kovalchuk off years ago, maintaining the status quo and making him wait another year is a perfectly acceptable outcome in my eyes, the only ones who lose out are Kovalchuk and the teams that were trying to acquire him.

 

[Setec Astronomy]

A point to who, exactly?

To other GMs that valuable assets are not given away.

 

[EnglishDevil]

A point to who, exactly?

Let me frame it this way, say we trade Kovalchuk to the NYR for a third round pick like you're suggesting.

The 2017/18 season unfolds and we do better than expected while the Rangers struggle a little bit, yet they beat us to the final playoff spot by one point largely in part due to a fantastic season by Kovalchuk where he puts up ~70 points, including a game or two where the Rangers beat us directly on goals/assists from Kovalchuk.

Was that worth it for an extra third round pick, when we've already made 30 picks in a three year span ('16, '17 & '18)?

I highly doubt the ownership will be impressed if that happened, they'd point the finger at Shero and ask him why we gave such a talented player to a rival team for a pittance in return when we had all the leverage necessary not to do so.

 

[Eric Sachs]

If NYR tries to give Shero a 7th round pick or a crappy player, he should stand his ground and put the pressure on NYR and Kovalchuk to get something better.

If NYR offers a 3rd round pick, Shero should take it.

I'm not sure what you think Kovalchuk's value is but it's not much higher than a 3rd or a late 2nd or a prospect of equal value.

But this isn't what you have been saying. You constantly say he will get nothing and has no negotiating power.. but right here, you've said completely otherwise.

FYI, I think Kovalchuk will return a 2nd and middling prospect OR a late 1st from a contender. I don't expect to get a team's top prospect or anything.

I think if Shero is offered a 3rd and that's the best he is able to do with negotiating, he may take that as it's still an okay asset and maybe not worth getting nothing. If he's offered less, he may likely say no thanks and take the risk of getting nothing if the team doesn't revise his offer. I'd certainly be all for gambling a return of a 3rd round pick to hopefully get something a bit better.

What really matters here is how Kovalchuk will select a team. Will he tell the Devils he wants one team and one team only? Will be be attracted enough to multiple teams that he works with the Devils to facilitate a trade to one of them? As I've said before, Kovalchuk gets to pick the team but after that, his leverage here ends and Shero's begins.

I also think your logic that Shero won't want to be the GM that blocks Kovalchuk return is completely asinine. Shero can block Kovalchuk's return because the NHL by-laws says he can. No-one is going to bat an eyelash if that happens. No GMs reputation is going to be ruined because of Ilya ****ing Kovalchuk

 

[Billdo]

Let me frame it this way, say we trade Kovalchuk to the NYR for a third round pick like you're suggesting.

The 2017/18 season unfolds and we do better than expected while the Rangers struggle a little bit, yet they beat us to the final playoff spot by one point largely in part due to a fantastic season by Kovalchuk where he puts up ~70 points, including a game or two where the Rangers beat us directly on goals/assists from Kovalchuk.

Was that worth it for an extra third round pick, when we've already made 30 picks in a three year span ('16, '17 & '18)?

I highly doubt the ownership will be impressed if that happened, they'd point the finger at Shero and ask him why we gave such a talented player to a rival team for a pittance in return when we had all the leverage necessary not to do so.

I'm not saying you do it to a rival at all. If someone outside of the division maxes out at a 3 I don't see how you DONT do it. An in division rival? Sure, go ahead and tell him to come back next year on a 35+ deal. But to say no to a draft pick to prove a point, unless it's a rival, is stupid to me. 99 times out of 100 (that 1 being a rival) any asset is better than none.