State of the Ducks

[AngelDuck]

How much more do you want them to spend? Like I said earlier, Anaheim has been a top cap team for the last 3 seasons (including this one). It's not a budget reason why BM isn't spending more money - it's because spending more money puts Anaheim into an absolute cap hell even more so then they are already in. I get it's been an issue in the past, but there have literally been cap spending changes in the last 3 seasons when this team had it's best chances to win the Cup since 2007, can't really ask more than that IMO.

It's not the owner's fault the GM has ended up with nearly 20m in dead cap on long term contracts on players who are either injured constantly, declined a huge amount or both which has limited his own ability to make moves.

My complaint stems from the idea that the Samueli’s are losing out by owning the Ducks. It just isn’t true.

I think they are good owners

 

[Lord Flashheart]

They are good owners, but they made critical error making team operate on a budget (then later allowing the team to go to the cap) during prime years of a cup window, effectively handcuffing BM. Ducks wasting the cup window is as much on the owners as it is on BM, when we're talking about management and ownership that is.

 

[Nurmagomedov]

One of our best teams in 2014-15 was nine million below the cap. The next year we were seven below. We cannot sit here and say the money doesn't matter. My annoyance does not com from a short term bout with budgetitus, it comes from a past of missing one more punch with multiple teams that could have put us over the top.

They are good owners, but they made critical error making team operate on a budget (then later allowing the team to go to the cap) during prime years of a cup window, effectively handcuffing BM. Ducks wasting the cup window is as much on the owners as it is on BM, when we're talking about management and ownership that is.

Is there actually any evidence that Bob wanted to spend and Henry denied him? The fact that they have allowed BM to spend to the cap since would suggest not.

 

[Lord Flashheart]

Is there actually any evidence that Bob wanted to spend and Henry denied him? The fact that they have allowed BM to spend to the cap since would suggest not.

BM stated multiple times they are operating on a budget.

 

[Nurmagomedov]

BM stated multiple times they are operating on a budget.

That's not evidence for what i asked but yes, he has said that many times, followed always with some variation of "but if there's a guy out there that can help us, ownership has my back".

 

[Lord Flashheart]

That's not evidence for what i asked but yes, he has said that many times, followed always with some variation of "but if there's a guy out there that can help us, ownership has my back".

I can not remember that phrasing, but if he did say something like that it could be interpreted as if there wasn't a guy available that could help us go all the way. Which is hardly believable scenario. More likely explanation for such a phrasing would be to appease the fans.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

3rd place baby, no stopping us

 

[The Midnight Burrito]

One huge caveat: I'm wrong about our current spending. That one good player we can fit is Corey Perry on LTIR. I can **** off for being wrong, there is nothing to complain about if we are at the limit.

Second, the relationship I see with the owners is a transactional one. I give them my money and they provide the product. I completely concede that if I don't like the transaction then I should walk away. That's also easier said than done with this type of product and I rarely see it happen. If my being annoyed with how they spend their money on the team is garbage then I will own it. I still feel that way.

Their business is predicated on people being entertained and engaged. Precedent points again and again and again and again to budget teams being at a disadvantage in this league. Want to know how many budget teams have won the cup in the cap era? One. The Carolina hurricanes 13 years ago.

One of our best teams in 2014-15 was nine million below the cap. The next year we were seven below. We cannot sit here and say the money doesn't matter. My annoyance does not com from a short term bout with budgetitis, it comes from a past of missing one more punch with multiple teams that could have put us over the top.

I can understand how me giving an opinion on how someone should spend his money is lame, but it's also not a one way street. My fandom doesn't matter in the micro sense but I am still a customer and do believe I at least have a right to feel annoyed if the product I've paid for seems undercooked.

And I'm not going to be so lame as to tell you how to spend your own money either. I'm not faulting anyone for looking at the product right now and being hesitant to spend. It's crap.

But the subject of whether the Samuelis are good owners or not is different, they clearly are and I don't think there's any principled argument to be made that their spending marks them otherwise. The evidence is that Murray gets the money that he asks for, and there are times when he doesn't spend it because he's obsessed with hockey deals over big splash ones.

That's probably because the overall mandate is that the team cannot afford to be irrelevant in this hockey market, hence the accusation that the team aims for pretty good rather than great. I think that gives an impression of stinginess that isn't borne out by looking at their actual spending.

 

[MMC]

 

[branmuffin17]

As my beer-league team's old goalie used to say...score more goals than I let in, and I guarantee you we'll win.

Or...underneath all that, is: "Gibby/Miller, please stop as many goals as you can so I have a chance to look better."

In all honesty though, it's getting to a point where, screwy systems or no, we're so freaking injured all the time that, how do you get lines to have some familiarity? With that familiarity, you get people starting to be able to no-look pass, or jump the gun because they know X person is going to be passing to them. Personnel choices notwithstanding, we're just not at a team health level where we've got nearly our whole intended lineup to see exactly what we might be able to do (in spite of Carlyle's systems, which seem to not be much different at this point than last season's).

 

[ADHB]

I love how Randy is preaching shutting it down defensively and having to win 1-0 or 2-1. And Manson is like “naw bro, we have to score to win games.”

Glad to see the players respect the coaching staff so much.

 

[Static]

And I'm not going to be so lame as to tell you how to spend your own money either. I'm not faulting anyone for looking at the product right now and being hesitant to spend. It's crap.

But the subject of whether the Samuelis are good owners or not is different, they clearly are and I don't think there's any principled argument to be made that their spending marks them otherwise. The evidence is that Murray gets the money that he asks for, and there are times when he doesn't spend it because he's obsessed with hockey deals over big splash ones.

That's probably because the overall mandate is that the team cannot afford to be irrelevant in this hockey market, hence the accusation that the team aims for pretty good rather than great. I think that gives an impression of stinginess that isn't borne out by looking at their actual spending.

It only gave that impression when our best teams were so far under the cap. Maybe that was on BM, but I'd be surprised if he viewed us as a true contender (we were) and sided on saving money.

Thinking about it, those years formed the bitterness I feel about the spending and these last three years havent removed that because it was too late. They cannot be viewed as stingy now but maybe even they look back with regret if the spending has gone up to support an inferior team.

"Support" may be the wrong word. Spending more money for the actual goal of staying competitive rather than go all in. The only reason they had to increase is because so many of our guys came up on their second contracts. It was either not pay and have to rebuild or pay up and stay at least competitive. That's frustrating.

 

[MMC]

'It’s a tough thing to do' -- Can the Ducks win this...

My god Carlyle is f***ing delusional.

 

[Deuce22]

That's who I want coaching my team. A guy who thinks we can't score goals, so have to win low scoring games. Great message to send to your players, RC. We suck, but can maybe keep it close by taking no chances, staying between our man and our goal, and hoping that our goalie can make 40 saves or so.

 

[Cogsfordogs7]

Let's bring back the left wing lock from the dead. That will make for some entertaining games.

 

[DuckRogers10]

Man, it sucks hating the coach of the team you love.

 

[Paul4587]

That's who I want coaching my team. A guy who thinks we can't score goals, so have to win low scoring games. Great message to send to your players, RC. We suck, but can maybe keep it close by taking no chances, staying between our man and our goal, and hoping that our goalie can make 40 saves or so.

The worst thing is depth wise we have 3 lines that should in theory be able to score. Maybe Keslers decline has impacted us worse than expected but it’s not like he produced much for us last year either.

 

[Deuce22]

The worst thing is depth wise we have 3 lines that should in theory be able to score. Maybe Keslers decline has impacted us worse than expected but it’s not like he produced much for us last year either.

Not to mention defensemen capable of contributing offensively. Carlyle is the Jeff Fisher of hockey coaches. Murray needs to go find a Sean McVay.

 

[wraparound]

Man, it sucks hating the coach of the team you love.

Big ducking mood

 

[KaseMeOutside]

That's who I want coaching my team. A guy who thinks we can't score goals, so have to win low scoring games. Great message to send to your players, RC. We suck, but can maybe keep it close by taking no chances, staying between our man and our goal, and hoping that our goalie can make 40 saves or so.

Well RC is kinda right. We can't score

One of the reasons is because we are constantly outshot by large margins.

This team isn't good, it will be completely exposed if it has say a 5-8 game stretch of below average goaltending.

This team is poorly built for where the sport is heading. You've got 23 million dollars tied up in Kesler, Perry, Eaves, and Cogs and basically getting no return there.

The goalies are holding us up enough to be mediocre which is keeping RC employed but also away from a potential franchise changing player in the draft

 

[AngelDuck]

Well RC is kinda right. We can't score

One of the reasons is because we are constantly outshot by large margins.

This team isn't good, it will be completely exposed if it has say a 5-8 game stretch of below average goaltending.

This team is poorly built for where the sport is heading. You've got 23 million dollars tied up in Kesler, Perry, Eaves, and Cogs and basically getting no return there.

The goalies are holding us up enough to be mediocre which is keeping RC employed but also away from a potential franchise changing player in the draft

And there is nothing that can be done about that 23 million dollars tied up in those players other than waiting for them to expire. Although I think there is a legit argument that using a buyout on Kesler isn’t a bad idea if he refuses to go on LTIR at some point. It’s time for a quick retool, we will see if Murray recognizes that

 

[Deuce22]

Well RC is kinda right. We can't score

One of the reasons is because we are constantly outshot by large margins.

This team isn't good, it will be completely exposed if it has say a 5-8 game stretch of below average goaltending.

This team is poorly built for where the sport is heading. You've got 23 million dollars tied up in Kesler, Perry, Eaves, and Cogs and basically getting no return there.

The goalies are holding us up enough to be mediocre which is keeping RC employed but also away from a potential franchise changing player in the draft

We could score more, IMO. If Kesler and Cogliano weren't playing second line minutes. If the PP had more movement and better zone entries. If our D felt free to jump in except when we are losing late. If the coach wasn't constantly reacting (matching) to our opponents' lines and instead was playing our best lines that night.

 

[Getzmonster]

And there is nothing that can be done about that 23 million dollars tied up in those players other than waiting for them to expire. Although I think there is a legit argument that using a buyout on Kesler isn’t a bad idea if he refuses to go on LTIR at some point. It’s time for a quick retool, we will see if Murray recognizes that

I have a hard time seeing Kesler drag this out for years without some sort of marked improvement to his mobility. I could see him hanging them up (LTIRetirement) at the end of this season or maybe the next. Same for Eaves, who I think we should buy out this summer if he has no value.

It's weird to think that this team is in a position to move on from the Cogs-Kes-Silf line so soon. That trio has been a critical part of the engine for us in their brief time before Kes' hips gave out and Cogs seemingly lost a step. I don't want to trade Silf, I think he should be part of the next veteran group to anchor the coming kids (I see Silf, Kase, and Terry filling out our right wing in the coming years), but I can see him being priced out of here as well. Cogs should probably go at the deadline, as much as it pains me. If we do see all of that play out, I think it's the retool that makes the most sense as it is a more natural progression. We could head into next season with plenty of cap space and a roster roughly like:

Raks-Getz-Perry
Ritchie-Rico-Kase
Comtois-Steel-Terry
FA(?)-Rowney-Sherwood
*Aberg

That still leaves guys like Lundestrom and Jones on the outside looking in, as well as the many 'tweeners like Kossila, Roy, Blandisi, etc.

The next phase would be Getz and Perry reaching the end of their contracts, and potentially moving Fowler ahead of the Seattle draft (depending on the progression of Larsson, Mahura, and maybe Pettersson). There are a ton of question marks beyond that.

 

[dracom]

Kes just does not strike me as the kind of guy who will go the LTIRetirment route. If he can skate, he will play, he's just one of those players. Would there even be a point in buying out Eaves contract when there's only one year left? Might as well just deal with it for one season instead of dealing with it for two.

 

[MMC]