TV: Star Wars: The Clone Wars - Final Season Official Trailer

[bleedblue1223]

You know what? I had forgotten that they claimed neutrality and that their support for the Separatists was secret too. I mean, it doesn't actually jive, but it is what was supposedly the case. The Trade Federation claimed neutrality, yet at the same time they also engaged in things like blockades to force systems to join the Separatists. It's inconsistent.

It's why Palpatine was well supported and why giving him more power was supported. The Republic for so long was toothless and allowed corruption to run rampant. He took advantage of that inept structure to rise to power.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

You know what? I had forgotten that they claimed neutrality and that their support for the Separatists was secret too. I mean, it doesn't actually jive, but it is what was supposedly the case. The Trade Federation claimed neutrality, yet at the same time they also engaged in things like blockades to force systems to join the Separatists. It's inconsistent.

Palpatine did two key things to make stuff like this happen

In the guise of a uncorrupt senator he corrupted the senate and allowed things like no actions or sanctions be approved by the Senate. Remember he stated in TPM when the Trade Federation worried about Republic reaction to the blockade that he would keep things tied up in the Senate. Its why instead of settling the question of Naboo's sovereignty it was decided that a special commission to be formed to look at Padme's accusations.

That after years in front of the courts Gunray was never convicted probably in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Remember what Mace said, that he was too dangerous to stand trial because he owned the Senate and the Courts.

Even without the use of the force, Palpatine was brilliant politically and knew all of the levers of power.

Also probably because of all of the mistrust that he generated against the Jedi behind their back, the testimony by a Jedi about seeing the trade Federation at the Seperatist table would have been perceived and promoted as a lie by a desperate and entitled Jedi Order trying to keep their privileged position.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Palpatine did two key things to make stuff like this happen

In the guise of a uncorrupt senator he corrupted the senate and allowed things like no actions or sanctions be approved by the Senate. Remember he stated in TPM when the Trade Federation worried about Republic reaction to the blockade that he would keep things tied up in the Senate. Its why instead of settling the question of Naboo's sovereignty it was decided that a special commission to be formed to look at Padme's accusations.

That after years in front of the courts Gunray was never convicted probably in the face of overwhelming evidence.

Remember what Mace said, that he was too dangerous to stand trial because he owned the Senate and the Courts.

Even without the use of the force, Palpatine was brilliant politically and knew all of the levers of power.

Also probably because of all of the mistrust that he generated against the Jedi behind their back, the testimony by a Jedi about seeing the trade Federation at the Seperatist table would have been perceived and promoted as a lie by a desperate and entitled Jedi Order trying to keep their privileged position.

Yeah. For all the hate the prequels got for politics, once you understand all that Palp did, you realize it's a really good plot line, it was just poorly presented to the masses.

 

[LarKing]

Yeah. For all the hate the prequels got for politics, once you understand all that Palp did, you realize it's a really good plot line, it was just poorly presented to the masses.

The prequels had an excellent plot to work with. The Clone Wars could’ve been a trilogy by itself though. Just so much content that everything was crammed in and a lot of the details left out. Hell, we don’t even know who Grievous is at the start of the third movie. He’s just suddenly there. Showing only the start and end of the Clone Wars was such a huge mistake.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The prequels had an excellent plot to work with. The Clone Wars could’ve been a trilogy by itself though. Just so much content that everything was crammed in and a lot of the details left out. Hell, we don’t even know who Grievous is at the start of the third movie. He’s just suddenly there. Showing only the start and end of the Clone Wars was such a huge mistake.

Yeah, all the villains in the movies were sort of lame, but with the show going into their backstory, I liked them all.

 

[Shockmaster]

Yeah. For all the hate the prequels got for politics, once you understand all that Palp did, you realize it's a really good plot line, it was just poorly presented to the masses.

You mean you're allowed to have a Star Wars plot that goes beyond a rebellion trying to bring down an empire?

 

[LarKing]

You mean you're allowed to have a Star Wars plot that goes beyond a rebellion trying to bring down an empire?

The classics will always be classics but yeah I’m going to say it. The prequels have a much better story (with everything, not just the movies). Give me a series on Grievous/Dooku just f***ing people up.

 

[LarKing]

Yeah, all the villains in the movies were sort of lame, but with the show going into their backstory, I liked them all.

Yeah there’s like no backstory in the movies. They mention Qui Gon was Dooku’s apprentice and Yoda was his master but that’s about it. No mention of what Dooku goes through. The stuff with Sifo Dyas and their adventures.

Then, again, Grievous is just there at the start of episode 3. No backstory whatsoever. I remember watching the original Clone Wars episode where all the clones are shaking in fear because they know he’s coming and they can’t do anything about it. Give us something like that to show he’s just an absolute force. Can’t control the force but still steamrolls most Jedi.

 

[Shockmaster]

The classics will always be classics but yeah I’m going to say it. The prequels have a much better story (with everything, not just the movies). Give me a series on Grievous/Dooku just f***ing people up.

This certainly isn't to say the prequels aren't without flaws (they have very many), but it feels like the sequel trilogy was made to appeal to the worst, most obsessive type of prequel bashers.

 

[LarKing]

This certainly isn't to say the prequels aren't without flaws (they have very many), but it feels like the sequel trilogy was made to appeal to the worst, most obsessive type of prequel bashers.

Hmm can you expand on this? I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean.

 

[Shockmaster]

Hmm can you expand on this? I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean.

Disney rehashed the whole "rebels vs empire" plot with very little to no background information on how it got like that after Episode VI. Part of my thinking is that Disney was scared to further explore the new republic or the political climate as that might be too reminiscent of the prequel trilogy. Same reason why Luke's new Jedi order was wiped out off screen. Multiple Jedi + Republic would automatically equal another prequel trilogy in the minds of certain fans, context be damned. Much easier and safer to just have another rebellion try and take down another empire for the sake of nostalgia.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Disney rehashed the whole "rebels vs empire" plot with very little to no background information on how it got like that after Episode VI. Part of my thinking is that Disney was scared to further explore the new republic or the political climate as that might be too reminiscent of the prequel trilogy. Same reason why Luke's new Jedi order was wiped out off screen. Multiple Jedi + Republic would automatically equal another prequel trilogy in the minds of certain fans, context be damned. Much easier and safer to just have another rebellion try and take down another empire for the sake of nostalgia.

OR they left themselves enough space to be able to tell these stories in comic books, books and TV shows.

Marketing wise, it kinda makes sense. People now want to know what happened.

 

[bleedblue1223]

OR they left themselves enough space to be able to tell these stories in comic books, books and TV shows.

Marketing wise, it kinda makes sense. People now want to know what happened.

Do they?

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Do they?

Probably not as much as they probably would have if the sequel trilogy has had been done better.

But the intent (if that was the intent) to leave a gap and fill it with other material later was smart. Some of the best Star Wars material covers the gaps between II and III or III and IV.

 

[LarKing]

Disney rehashed the whole "rebels vs empire" plot with very little to no background information on how it got like that after Episode VI. Part of my thinking is that Disney was scared to further explore the new republic or the political climate as that might be too reminiscent of the prequel trilogy. Same reason why Luke's new Jedi order was wiped out off screen. Multiple Jedi + Republic would automatically equal another prequel trilogy in the minds of certain fans, context be damned. Much easier and safer to just have another rebellion try and take down another empire for the sake of nostalgia.

Ah, I was moreso comparing the prequels to the originals but I agree it has a better story than the sequels. The sequels have a million problems but I won’t go there because this thread will turn to cancer like all the others.

 

[Shockmaster]

Probably not as much as they probably would have if the sequel trilogy has had been done better.

But the intent (if that was the intent) to leave a gap and fill it with other material later was smart. Some of the best Star Wars material covers the gaps between II and III or III and IV.

I'm hesitant to agree that was Disney's intent as it was obvious after VIII and reinforced after IX that they didn't have a plan for the sequel trilogy.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm hesitant to agree that was Disney's intent as it was obvious after VIII and reinforced after IX that they didn't have a plan for the sequel trilogy.

I agree that they didn’t have a detailed plan, but I also don’t believe that’s inherently a bad thing. I think the intent was always for Rey to be the catalyst for Kylo’s redemption, for example, but I don’t know if they created details on how to get there. So for the major points, I think they had a plan. Those other kinds of details don’t have to be worked out before you even start making something. Truly original movie and TV series (as in, ones that aren’t based on pre-existing material like books) probably rarely have a detailed plan going in. Sometimes, they don’t even have a set plan coming out of an installment. Just as an example, I can think of two situations where The West Wing didn’t. At the end of the first season, when shots were fired at the President and his staff, the writer (Aaron Sorkin) hadn’t decided who had actually gotten hit until they started writing the second season. At the end of the 4th season, when the President’s daughter gets kidnapped, the decision hadn’t been made who would turn out to be responsible. In the second case, the writer had a vague idea in his head, but left the show after that season. The writer who picked up where he left off (John Wells) actually ended up doing something completely different than what Sorkin was thinking about. I don’t think it can be argued that Sorkin, or Wells for that matter, isn’t a good storyteller, but detailed planning wasn’t his thing. Sometimes, you have an overarching plan, but you also see where things take you.

My point is this: the lack of a plan isn’t necessarily the reason for the STs flaws, IMO. They could’ve just as easily had no plan at all and come out with 2 sequels to TFA that were universally loved. So, even though I have a generally positive opinion about all three and the trilogy as a whole, there are definitely spots where they didn’t tell the story they were trying to tell particularly well. And that was more of a problem in RoS than TLJ. This is where the ST falls short of the OT. But the PT, which had all the planning in the world, had the same problem as the ST. Planning doesn’t inherently help.

Also important to note that I’m not saying planning can’t help. The MCU is evidence of that. It’s just not the only effective way to approach this kind of thing.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think a plan of no plan works when you have a single vision at the top. Original Star Wars didn't have a fully laid out plot for 3 movies, but it was Lucas' vision that morphed Star Wars into what it became, so it felt natural. The ST felt like a game of telephone. There needed to at least be some main plot points that were planned from the start if they were going to have different directors and writers on each film, and more than just the main good character wins in the end, and a main bad character gets redeemed. We all knew that was going to happen.

I disagree the PT had the same problems as the ST. They failed in completely different ways.

 

[LarKing]

Solid episode this week. But again, 4 episodes to find out Maul is alive and see Ahsoka’s stuff isn’t necessary. Could’ve done it in one episode and then fleshed out her character with the mandalorians instead.

I was thinking this morning - we never saw Cad Bane die. They had that clip a while back but it never showed Bane dead. Never saw what happened to Ventress either.

 

[CaptainCrunch67]

Yeah. For all the hate the prequels got for politics, once you understand all that Palp did, you realize it's a really good plot line, it was just poorly presented to the masses.

Its almost too bad that Disney wiped out the Legends EU, Palpatine was a pretty brilliant character in the books, from Plaguies to Dark Lord and beyond, he was that guy that was pulling strings on everyone, as Vader noted in Dark Lord when he was meeting Tarkin to go after the Jedi on the Wookie home world, Palpatines greatest gift was that everyone wanted to please him, and Palpatine played off of rivalry and jealousy.

In the Plageius book, Palpatine's master realized that what made Palpatine so powerful was not his strength in the force, which was formidable, but Palpatines understanding of how the galaxy and politics worked.

 

[18Hossa]

 

[LarKing]

Ohhhh f*** I can’t wait

 

[MadDevil]

I don't know if it's a compliment to this show or a criticism of the films or maybe both, but I think I enjoyed this episode more than I have anything on the big screen under the helm of Disney.

 

[LarKing]

I don't know if it's a compliment to this show or a criticism of the films or maybe both, but I think I enjoyed this episode more than I have anything on the big screen under the helm of Disney.

Holy hell! What an episode! Easily best of the season, maybe best of the series.

Spoiler

Someone mentioned that this last arc would be like a movie and they couldn’t have been more right. It feels like this was the intro to a movie showing the end of the Clone Wars. Each big character was introduced so dramatically.

Ahsoka’s lightsaber return with the theme blaring is one of my all time favorite Star Wars moments already. I’ll be rewatching that again later.

Anakin’s final moments with Ahsoka as Anakin were so emotional for me. He truly does care about her. I thought the present would be the white light sabers but can’t say I don’t love the blue ones too.

Obi-Wan saving Cody and then Anakin just walking up to the entire army was such a classic Anakin and Obi Wan moment. Then Maul at the end in the sewers to end it. I can’t wait for the next episode. This one was a little longer at 29 minutes so if they’re all like this we get a 2 hour movie basically. It felt so long because it was so much plot so quickly. I have a good feeling this last arc is going to more than make up for a somewhat subpar final season to this point.

 

[Power Man]

Amazing episode

Glad that the Ahsoka arc with the smuggler sisters is over

Loved original intro, and the nod to A New Hope : "In my experience, there is no such thing as luck"