Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[discostu]

JJ Abrams was asked his opinion on the Huffington Post reporting that an alt-right group claimed responsibility for lowering the Rotten Tomatoes score because the film "[introduced] more female characters into the Star War's universe."

(That's a quote from the author of the article, not the group)

Abrams responded with this:



He's talking about the HufPo report, but out of that context it looks like he's saying everyone who didn't like the film is sexist.

I think that is a stretch. I don't read that interpretation at all. However, central to this debate is about how different people perceive things very differently.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I'm not offering proof of the producers saying everyone who hates TLJ is sexist. Upon further examination, that is a BS narrative. I'm offering the reason this perception exists in the first place, which is the same reason most incorrect perceptions exist (an out-of-context quote). Surely you can tell these are two different points.

The perception exists because the internet is slowly but surely becoming more of an echo chamber where people only "hang out" with like-minded people. Dumb people who can't read and want to be offended will never not find reasons to be offended, and we can't get rid of dumb people.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Okay, can anyone else demonstrate that the producers/directors/etc. said that anyone who didn't like it was sexist or something else?

I have been on this discussion since the movie came out and not seen anything that indicates such.

So you hide the question. I have made it clear in the past that I did not mean everyone. I do not make my self clear once and you jump on it. That is disingenuous. That is why it is hard to have a conversation with you concerning Star Wars.

You swept the first quote under the rug, how about a couple quotes from RJ.

"There were death threats. It’s balanced by a few things — 90 per cent of the stuff I got online was not only lovely and encouraging but phenomenally thoughtful. Fans would send me essays on the movie. The other 10 per cent is just loud and gets amplified.

90 per cent of the stuff I got online was not only lovely and encouraging but phenomenally thoughtful. Fans would send me essays on the movie. The other 10 per cent is just loud and gets amplified. "

Last Jedi director Rian Johnson felt the force of fans’ fury

That really sounds like someone who is critical of his movie. I can also easily link to where he defends everything in his movie.

How about when Kathleen said she didn't owe anything to those complaining male Star Wars fans?

Ya. I stand by my initial assertion. Nine is going to be ugly because they haven't learned a thing from Eight. That's good for people like you who enjoyed it. Not so much for us that didn't.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Cool beans.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I just had a scary thought. What if you guys are Russian operatives or, worse, bots, tasked with arguing with each other to sow discord and whip up frenzy, as Finlandia WOAT said? In fact, what if ArGarBarGar (ceaseless defender of TLJ) and Philip the Third (ceaseless trasher of TLJ) are really the same person logging in to different accounts to argue with himself? What if... I'm a Russian operative and I just don't know it yet, like the Manchurian Candidate?

Da ! Spasibo.

 

[Nalens Oga]

Don't quite know how they're gonna stretch this last film into two films if it's true....Rian Johnson killed most of the plot lines and they pretty much have to start from scratch. There's really nothing hanging unexplained or lingering questions like there were after Episode 7.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Don't quite know how they're gonna stretch this last film into two films if it's true....Rian Johnson killed most of the plot lines and they pretty much have to start from scratch. There's really nothing hanging unexplained or lingering questions like there were after Episode 7.

Are they really thinking about splitting this into 2 films?

 

[CokenoPepsi]

This really doesn't feel like a trilogy... Just episode 8 fell flat and seemed kinda pointless you know?

Just doesn't seem earned

 

[Garo]

This doesn't feel like a trilogy to me either, although I don't really think it's a bad thing in itself. Ending all the characters' stories in one film seems like a big stretch but if they end up thinking there's more to do with them I really wouldn't object to them trying more films

 

[Osprey]

I think that one reason why it doesn't feel like a trilogy is that there's little elapsing of time. Ep8 starts exactly where Ep7 ended (with Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke) and Ep9 will probably be similar. Lord of the Rings did that, too, but there was a sense of the passage of time within the films that made up for it. This new Star Wars trilogy doesn't have that, so, combined with it being one uninterrupted story, it feels like everything is happening all in the span of a week or two. It's really hard to make something feel epic and believable like that.

It'll be funny if they do split Ep9 into two films because it'll suggest that they didn't plan out the trilogy and are just making it up as they go along. It could also be taken as evidence that Ep8 was a mis-step and failed to bring the trilogy up to the point where it could be adequately wrapped up in one more film, as a middle film ought to do. The greatest cynics could even call the first of the two parts a "do over" for Ep8, since it'll probably try to make up for what Ep8 failed to do. I wonder if, ten years from now, it'll end up being common for fans to watch and recommend for others to watch Ep7, then Ep9 and Ep9.5, as though that's the real sequel trilogy.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Episode 9 will reveal that it was a coma dream of Finn while he was wearing that Jacuzzi suit

 

[x Tame Impala]

Well of course it doesn't feel like a trilogy. Episode 8 was terrible and ruined any and all possibilities given to it from Episode 7. Thats what bad writing does. It kills any and all investment/immersion into the film universe. Now I'm trying to imagine what episode 9 will even be about and why we should care.

Snoke is dead. The Resistance is down to essentially 15 people and no ships and/or resources other than the Falcon. The Republic apparently doesn't care about them at all either so a "Resistance takes down the first order" plot line will be super contrived. Luke is dead. Knights of Ren weren't fleshed out and now that it's just Rey vs Kylo, the KoR won't mean much anyway. Luke was written to tell Rey how meaningless the Force is so there can't be any "restoring balance" or Sith v Jedi plot line. Rey is determined to be good, Kylo determined to be bad, so any potential Grey Jedi storylines can't exist either. Any potential character growth for Finn was ruined by that completely idiotic decision by Rose to crash into him, preventing his sacrifice and dooming all their friends in the process. Po doesn't have much going on. Leia doesn't either and she was essentially just an exposition dump in this new trilogy to begin with anyway

9 is probably just going to be Rey Mary Sue-ing her way to defeating Kylo and the First Order. Snore.

 

[MadDevil]

Hasn't Abrams said he's going to try to tie all the trilogies together in IX? I'm interested to see how he does it.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It doesn't feel like a trilogy because it isn't a trilogy, yet.

Maybe that is the issue.

 

[Garo]

I think that one reason why it doesn't feel like a trilogy is that there's little elapsing of time. Ep8 starts exactly where Ep7 ended (with Rey handing the lightsaber to Luke) and Ep9 will probably be similar. Lord of the Rings did that, too, but there was a sense of the passage of time within the films that made up for it. This new Star Wars trilogy doesn't have that, so, combined with it being one uninterrupted story, it feels like everything is happening all in the span of a week or two. It's really hard to make something feel epic and believable like that.

It'll be funny if they do split Ep9 into two films because it'll suggest that they didn't plan out the trilogy and are just making it up as they go along. It could also be taken as evidence that Ep8 was a mis-step and failed to bring the trilogy up to the point where it could be adequately wrapped up in one more film, as a middle film ought to do. The greatest cynics could even call the first of the two parts a "do over" for Ep8, since it'll probably try to make up for what Ep8 failed to do. I wonder if, ten years from now, it'll end up being common for fans to watch and recommend for others to watch Ep7, then Ep9 and Ep9.5, as though that's the real sequel trilogy.

Well, not really I think? The prequel trilogy is done over about 15 years, and it's a bad trilogy because as a story two of the films are tidbits of information for RotS to avoid explaining who's Padmé and... uh... Oh yeah Anakin's mother. Everything else is fairly pointless honestly, not just because the two movies are stupid bad, RotS isn't exactly great cinema either.

I think my issue if it's even one - I legit don't care about this being a trilogy or not and I don't think it's an inherent flaw in the narrative if it's not - is that TFA and TLJ both confronted the franchise's past in different ways, with the eventual purpose of freeing the franchise from them. The problems obviously being than having to do that over multiple films gives very little building for the new characters independent of the former glories, which I thought TLJ managed to do very well since almost everything left is support for the future. But yeah, doing that inevitably makes it harder to build a trilogy because you have to take into account multiple factors outside the main narrative and a way for them to be dealt with at the same time, but that's that and I thought under the circumstances it was woven decently into the story, despite the fact that it makes it extremely difficult to fit into one movie if they want to keep the hard line on that formula for whatever reason.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I think those two loveable hacks over at RLM summed up TLJ perfectly.

 

[Pilky01]

They summed ep 8 up well near the end of the RLM review where the the one guy says that this feels like the set up for the Star Wars animated series where every week the Resistance battles the evil forces of Kylo Ren and The First Order.

The movie gave no indication of where anything might be going and so I just don’t care what happens next.

 

[Blender]

The whole Resistance/First Order dynamic never made any sense to begin with in TFA, and it makes even less sense after TLJ. I don't know how the Resistance is going to defeat the First Order in the last one, but the conflict and political situation makes no sense to begin with, so they can do almost anything and have it fit within the franchise at this point.

 

[MadDevil]

Taika Waititi and Bryce Dallas Howard are both now rumored to be involved in the live action series "The Mandalorian" as directors and possibly actors. And Filoni will be directing the first episode of the series. There's also a nice set photo of somebody in Mandalorian armor that looks rather intriguing to me. Between this and Clone Wars, Disney already has my money when their streaming service drops.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It doesn't feel like a trilogy because it isn't a trilogy, yet.

Maybe that is the issue.

TLJ doesn't really set up a sequel, every hanging thread from TFA gets resolved in it.

My biggest issue with TLJ is it teases the viewer about turning everything on it's head and then says "NOPE! light vs dark!" which wouldn't be an issue if the "let the past die" wasn't such a strong theme.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

TLJ doesn't really set up a sequel, every hanging thread from TFA gets resolved in it.

My biggest issue with TLJ is it teases the viewer about turning everything on it's head and then says "NOPE! light vs dark!" which wouldn't be an issue if the "let the past die" wasn't such a strong theme.

"Let the past die" wasn't really the theme. "Learning/growing from mistakes" is the theme. And I don't think they are going right to "light and dark" considering Kylo Ren has no interest in "the dark side" or "the sith" and Rey is unlikely to simply ape the Jedi texts based on her experiences with Luke.

Also I do not know how you think there is no set up for a sequel considering the fact the First Order is now being ran by an unhinged psycho and the Resistance is going to try and rebuild (how they do it I have no idea, but it isn't impossible considering they got away and can go anywhere they want). The (assumed) big conflict is going to be between Rey and Kylo Ren, which has been the build-up since TFA and has not been resolved.

You don't have to like the direction that the series is being taken. But I don't see the "there is nowhere for the story to go" arguments whatsoever.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

"Let the past die" wasn't really the theme. "Learning/growing from mistakes" is the theme. And I don't think they are going right to "light and dark" considering Kylo Ren has no interest in "the dark side" or "the sith" and Rey is unlikely to simply ape the Jedi texts based on her experiences with Luke.

Also I do not know how you think there is no set up for a sequel considering the fact the First Order is now being ran by an unhinged psycho and the Resistance is going to try and rebuild (how they do it I have no idea, but it isn't impossible considering they got away and can go anywhere they want). The (assumed) big conflict is going to be between Rey and Kylo Ren, which has been the build-up since TFA and has not been resolved.

You don't have to like the direction that the series is being taken. But I don't see the "there is nowhere for the story to go" arguments whatsoever.

There is nowhere for the story to go because everything character related is resolved by the end of TLJ: Kylo has gone full darkside, Rey has accepted her destiny, Finn fights for something greater than himself, Poe learns to be a leader etc... All the character arcs are complete, all that's left is for the good guys to beat the bad guys, there's no more intrigue: it is very hard to get excited for Episode IX at this time because all that there is left is the final confrontation which we all know has to happen.

TLJ shouldn't have ended on such a positive note, it was tonally inconsistent with the theme of failure. I still really, really like the movie but it has a lot of issues.

 

[Blender]

There is nowhere for the story to go because everything character related is resolved by the end of TLJ: Kylo has gone full darkside, Rey has accepted her destiny, Finn fights for something greater than himself, Poe learns to be a leader etc... All the character arcs are complete, all that's left is for the good guys to beat the bad guys, there's no more intrigue.

Rey hasn't had a character arc at all. Which is a shame because she's a likable character that has been horribly written outside of her personality.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Rey hasn't had a character arc at all. Which is a shame because she's a likable character that has been horribly written outside of her personality.

She had an arc: she wanted to find her family and by the end of TLJ she doesn't care about that anymore. Problem is that it's resolved by the end of the movie and that leads to two problems:

- Lessens her plight since it doesn't last that long
- Leaves nowhere for the character to go at the end of the second act

 

[Blender]

She had an arc: she wanted to find her family and by the end of TLJ she doesn't care about that anymore. Problem is that it's resolved by the end of the movie and that leads to two problems:

- Lessens her plight since it doesn't last that long
- Leaves nowhere for the character to go at the end of the second act

That isn't a character arc. She is essentially the same character at the end of TLJ as she was at the start of TFA. None of her fundamental character traits have changed.