Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[ArGarBarGar]

It's going to be ugly because none of them want to admit that people disliked it because the movie was poorly done.

According to them anyone who dislikes it are just trolls, sexists, racists, etc.

People who aren't trolls or sexist or racist tend to get really defensive when people call out the trolls, sexists, and racists.

Nobody asserts that those are the only people who disliked the movie. People assert that there is a heavy contingent of those types of people who are very vocal (and downright abusive) about how much they hate the movie. The degree to which those people exist is certainly up for debate. But those people do exist.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

People who aren't trolls or sexist or racist tend to get really defensive when people call out the trolls, sexists, and racists.

Nobody asserts that those are the only people who disliked the movie. People assert that there is a heavy contingent of those types of people who are very vocal (and downright abusive) about how much they hate the movie. The degree to which those people exist is certainly up for debate. But those people do exist.

Read a little lower. I wasn't talking about people such as you.

I was referring to the creators.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Read a little lower. I wasn't talking about people such as you.

I was referring to the creators.

I know.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I know.

Not sure why you posted then unless you are just here to promote their deceptive message.

You believe everything the producers say without question. I don't. I believe they will lie through their teeth to keep supporters such as you on their side.

 

[Osprey]

People who aren't trolls or sexist or racist tend to get really defensive when people call out the trolls, sexists, and racists.

That's because people who call out trolls, sexists and racists often do so because they're defensive about the subject (in this case, TLJ) and looking for a way to strike back at the haters in general. Focusing on the illegitimate criticisms more than the legitimate ones makes it look like most criticisms are illegitimate and, therefore, most critics are trolls, sexists and racists. It's easy to deny, especially when you don't actually believe that, but I think that some people see no harm in such insinuations because of the notion that only the real trolls, sexists and racists would be offended, so getting defensive proves to them that the shoe fits.

Calling out the troublemakers and bigots is fine if you add that you're not generalizing everyone that way, as you did in your second paragraph. It's just that it seems like too few people these days go out of their way to try not to offend others like that, and if there's the possibility that you're generalizing, people are going to become defensive just in case.

 

[MadDevil]

This isn't Episode IX related, and probably not worth it's own thread, but Jon Favreau's live action series that will be on Disney's streaming service has been revealed as "The Mandalorian". Rumor is it will star Pedro Pascal, and Dave Filoni will be directing at least one episode.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Not sure why you posted then unless you are just here to promote their deceptive message.

You believe everything the producers say without question. I don't. I believe they will lie through their teeth to keep supporters such as you on their side.

I believe everything the producers say...

Uhh, what? I have just enjoyed the movies, dude.

 

[Richard]

God awful movie that ruined any chance of me seeing or caring about the third one.

However, Solo was surprisingly good. It's a shame it followed the last jedi

 

[ThePhoenixx]

I believe everything the producers say...

Uhh, what? I have just enjoyed the movies, dude.

Really? You can't see that?

It gives supporters such as you (not saying you are bad for liking the movie) an out.

Instead of being in the minority and thinking that most people disliked the movie, supporters can say to themselves that it is mostly trolls or very mean vocal sexists, etc. that did not enjoy the movie. That if you take those scum away the vast majority of people enjoyed the movie just like me.

That being said, I was making the point that the people in charge believe this or at the very least are promoting that message to make themselves look good. That they plan on changing nothing.

That's good for such people as you who enjoyed the movie. Not so much for us that didn't.

I'm going to vote with my wallet. Just as I did with Solo.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Really? You can't see that?

It gives supporters such as you (not saying you are bad for liking the movie) an out.

Instead of being in the minority and thinking that most people disliked the movie, supporters can say to themselves that it is mostly trolls or very mean vocal sexists, etc. that did not enjoy the movie. That if you take those scum away the vast majority of people enjoyed the movie just like me.

That being said, I was making the point that the people in charge believe this or at the very least are promoting that message to make themselves look good. That they plan on changing nothing.

No, I do not see that as being the case, and you are making a lot of assertions based on a whole lot of nothing with regards to the mentality of the producers and those involved in TLJ.

You don't think artists are critical of their work? You don't think J.J. Abrams and everyone involved in the making of Episode 9 isn't going to look back at what worked and what didn't with the last two movies? Just that they are going to be "my way or the highway wee" and do whatever they want without any introspection?

That's good for such people as you who enjoyed the movie. Not so much for us that didn't.

I'm going to vote with my wallet. Just as I did with Solo.

Good for you.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

You don't think J.J. Abrams and everyone involved in the making of Episode 9 isn't going to look back at what worked and what didn't with the last two movies? Just that they are going to be "my way or the highway wee" and do whatever they want without any introspection?

From everything they have said, yes, that's exactly what I think they are going to do in Nine. Unless you have heard something from them that I have not.

Link?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

From everything they have said, yes, that's exactly what I think they are going to do in Nine. Unless you have heard something from them that I have not.

Link?

You are the one who asserted they aren't going to be critical of their own work. You back it up.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

You are the one who asserted they aren't going to be critical of their own work. You back it up.

This makes no sense.

I'm supposed to find something that doesn't exist? ie. Them being critical of their work.

They think the movie is great! Multiple examples have shown this to be true.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

This makes no sense.

I'm supposed to find something that doesn't exist?

They think the movie is great!

"They think the movie is great" does not mean "they don't think there is any critique that can be had from the movie." You are asserting they won't be critical of their own work, and you think this is because they think they made a good movie in TLJ? Is that it?

 

[NyQuil]

I actually tried to watch it again and turned it off halfway through.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

"They think the movie is great" does not mean "they don't think there is any critique that can be had from the movie." You are asserting they won't be critical of their own work, and you think this is because they think they made a good movie in TLJ? Is that it?

They think/say they made a great movie. They have asserted that if you didn't like it you are sexist, etc.

Do you really see any room for critical thought there? Why change what is already great? To appeal to the sexists, etc.? Don't think so.

Maybe if they are lying to everyone just to make themselves look good....then maybe they think it was bad and are going to change things...

Which scenario do you think sounds more believable?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

They have asserted that if you didn't like it you are sexist, etc.

Demonstrate that.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Demonstrate that.

I'm not wasting my time. It's been posted multiple times. Have a good day.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Okay, can anyone else demonstrate that the producers/directors/etc. said that anyone who didn't like it was sexist or something else?

I have been on this discussion since the movie came out and not seen anything that indicates such.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Okay, can anyone else demonstrate that the producers/directors/etc. said that anyone who didn't like it was sexist or something else?

I have been on this discussion since the movie came out and not seen anything that indicates such.

JJ Abrams was asked his opinion on the Huffington Post reporting that an alt-right group claimed responsibility for lowering the Rotten Tomatoes score because the film "[introduced] more female characters into the Star War's universe."

(That's a quote from the author of the article, not the group)

Abrams responded with this:

“Star Wars is a big galaxy, and you can sort of find almost anything you want to in Star Wars. If you are someone who feels threatened by women and needs to lash out against them, you can probably find an enemy in Star Wars.You can probably look at the first movie that George [Lucas] did [Star Wars: A New Hope] and say that Leia was too outspoken, or she was too tough.
Anyone who wants to find a problem with anything can find the problem. The internet seems to be made for that.”

He's talking about the HufPo report, but out of that context it looks like he's saying everyone who didn't like the film is sexist.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

He's talking about the HufPo report, but out of that context it looks like he's saying everyone who didn't like the film is sexist.

I do not know how you can get that from what he said.

He is talking about how Star Wars has a lot going on in it and anyone with an axe to grind can find something to hate. That is trying to explain the motivations behind those who were abusive and are actually sexist and racist and everything else. That isn't insinuating anything about those who were critical of the film.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I do not know how you can get that from what he said.

I didn't "get" anything, I'm explaining to you the media context behind undeserved backlash at Abrams because you were ignorant of it and wanted an explanation.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I didn't "get" anything, I'm explaining to you the media context behind undeserved backlash at Abrams because you were ignorant of it and wanted an explanation.

I don't know how ANYONE could get that from what he said. And if you admit it is the wrong interpretation then it doesn't really demonstrate what I was looking for.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I don't know how ANYONE could get that from what he said.

"If you are someone who feels threatened by women and needs to lash out against them, you can probably find an enemy in Star Wars"

"Someone" as in the general abstraction, not in reference the alt-right group.

Replace "can" with "will".

Easy.

And if you admit it is the wrong interpretation then it doesn't really demonstrate what I was looking for.

I'm not offering proof of the producers saying everyone who hates TLJ is sexist. Upon further examination, that is a BS narrative. I'm offering the reason this perception exists in the first place, which is the same reason most incorrect perceptions exist (an out-of-context quote). Surely you can tell these are two different points.

 

[Pilky01]

This was very well stated.