Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

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Jussi

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I totally agree

ROTJ was my favorite movie as a kid growing up in the 90s, primarily because of the big battle at the end. As I got older I realized the Ewoks are somewhat dumb and there's much greater depth in the first two. That's not to say that I dislike ROTJ; despite the aforementioned flaws it's tremendously enjoyable and is a satisfying conclusion to a great film trilogy.

I felt pretty much the same when I was younger. Return Of The Jedi is the only one of the orginals I saw in the threater (the updated A New Hope I saw later doesn't count) and the experience was so breathtaking that it still has a strong place in movie memories. I'd probably rate the original trilogy with ANH: 9.25, ESB: 9.5, ROTJ: 9.0. All great movies. And on topic, as I said after Episode 8, I'm both exited and scared that Episode 9 is basically opening with a clean slate. No masses of internet speculations about characters and plots which may have spoiled the entire experience because they are very hard to avoid. Well, until the first trailer surfaces when it all begins again. Because in the end, people have nothing in their lives and speculating about Episode 9 will fill that void.
 

ThePhoenixx

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I felt pretty much the same when I was younger. Return Of The Jedi is the only one of the orginals I saw in the threater (the updated A New Hope I saw later doesn't count) and the experience was so breathtaking that it still has a strong place in movie memories. I'd probably rate the original trilogy with ANH: 9.25, ESB: 9.5, ROTJ: 9.0. All great movies. And on topic, as I said after Episode 8, I'm both exited and scared that Episode 9 is basically opening with a clean slate. No masses of internet speculations about characters and plots which may have spoiled the entire experience because they are very hard to avoid. Well, until the first trailer surfaces when it all begins again. Because in the end, people have nothing in their lives and speculating about Episode 9 will fill that void.

:skeptic:
 

Do Make Say Think

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I don't know why people think ROTJ is bad. It is certainly the weakest of the OT but the highs of that movie most definitely outshine the lows.

Maybe my problem is I actually like the Ewoks and like the idea of an indigenous jungle race helping defeat a galaxy power due to the fact they know their planet better than the enemy.

Return of the Jedi is awfully slow and very little happens until the climax at the end. I can't sit through it anymore, it's a real slog.
 

Osprey

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Return of the Jedi is awfully slow and very little happens until the climax at the end. I can't sit through it anymore, it's a real slog.

All three of the original trilogy can be described like that. Years ago, I showed an 11-year-old and 15-year-old Star Wars and they seemed so bored 20 minutes in that we turned it off. I probably would've gotten the same reaction if I'd shown them any 70s or 80s film, though. We simply grew up with slower-paced films that tended to have several exciting segments separated by long periods of storytelling and build-up. Nowadays, people are used to films, especially blockbusters, not slowing down for two straight hours. It can be tough to go back and appreciate the classics unless you can put yourself in the right frame of mind, and it's almost hopeless to expect younger generations to.
 

Do Make Say Think

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All three of the original trilogy can be described like that. Years ago, I showed an 11-year-old and 15-year-old Star Wars and they seemed so bored 20 minutes in that we turned it off. I probably would've gotten the same reaction if I'd shown them any 70s or 80s film, though. We simply grew up with slower-paced films that tended to have several exciting segments separated by long periods of storytelling and build-up. Nowadays, people are used to films, especially blockbusters, not slowing down for two straight hours. It can be tough to go back and appreciate the classics unless you can put yourself in the right frame of mind, and it's almost hopeless to expect younger generations to.

There is no way I could describe ANH or ESB as slow: those two movies are always on the go. RotJ moves at a glacial pace compared to those two.

ANH has no down time, ESB has Dagobah as down time. RotJ is mostly downtime except for when stuff goes down at the Sand Barge, the forest bike chase and the big finish.

RotJ is very different from it's two predecessors.
 
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GabeTravels

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There is no way I could describe ANH or ESB as slow: those two movies are always on the go. RotJ moves at a glacial pace compared to those two.

ANH has no down time, ESB has Dagobah as down time. RotJ is mostly downtime except for stuff goes down at the Sand Barge, the forest bike chase and the big finish.

RotJ is very different from it's two predecessors.

I think ANH is quite slow at the beginning.
 
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Do Make Say Think

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I think ANH is quite slow at the beginning.

True, the beginning is the slowest part of the movie and it does take until they leave Tattooine for things to pick up.

I maintain that RotJ is far slower than ANH and ESB though. I re-watched RotJ last night and I noticed something I never had before: everything between Tattooine and the Battle of Endor are short scenes that don't do much but try to force the plot forward. It's really glaring and another big problem with the movie's pacing.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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True, the beginning is the slowest part of the movie and it does take until they leave Tattooine for things to pick up.

I maintain that RotJ is far slower than ANH and ESB though. I re-watched RotJ last night and I noticed something I never had before: everything between Tattooine and the Battle of Endor are short scenes that don't do much but try to force the plot forward. It's really glaring and another big problem with the movie's pacing.

they also spend like half the movie re-hashing what happened in ANH and ESB. There's maybe 60 minutes of actual new story in ROTJ

Also...Ewoks = Jar Jar Binks
 

Osprey

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There is no way I could describe ANH or ESB as slow: those two movies are always on the go. RotJ moves at a glacial pace compared to those two.

ANH has no down time, ESB has Dagobah as down time. RotJ is mostly downtime except for when stuff goes down at the Sand Barge, the forest bike chase and the big finish.

RotJ is very different from it's two predecessors.

ANH has the least action of every Star Wars film. There's a brief firefight at the very beginning, then not a whole lot happens until nearly the midpoint of the film. It takes a long time to get going, which is understandable for the opening film of a trilogy. ESB starts out interesting and has the Battle of Hoth, then Dagobah and the relatively uneventful first half of Cloud City consume the next hour. That's nearly half of each film that is "down time."

RotJ takes 15 minutes to get rolling, then we get the exciting Rancor and sand barge scenes back to back, then there's 10 minutes of "boring" Dagobah (which is 30 minutes shorter than ESB's segment), then we get the exciting speeder chase, then there's 25 minutes of mostly talking before the Battle of Endor starts. That adds up to about the same amount of "down time" as ANH and ESB, but it's broken up and spread around, rather than being in one large chunk.

Maybe you just don't like RotJ and find it boring because of that, not the other way around. It's actually not any worse paced than the two before it and, arguably, is better paced because there's never more than 25 minutes without something exciting happening.
 
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GabeTravels

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True, the beginning is the slowest part of the movie and it does take until they leave Tattooine for things to pick up.

I maintain that RotJ is far slower than ANH and ESB though. I re-watched RotJ last night and I noticed something I never had before: everything between Tattooine and the Battle of Endor are short scenes that don't do much but try to force the plot forward. It's really glaring and another big problem with the movie's pacing.

Oh yeah, once it gets going it's fantastic... But when I rewatched all of the movies back to back before TLJ, I found myself incredibly bored throughout the beginning.
 

MadDevil

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I've never really understood the hatred for ewoks, but maybe I was just the right age when I first saw ROTJ and they just never bothered me.
 

Shockmaster

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I've never really understood the hatred for ewoks, but maybe I was just the right age when I first saw ROTJ and they just never bothered me.

I always got the sense the Ewoks were what they were to help show how arrogant the Empire had become up to that point.
 

Do Make Say Think

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ANH has the least action of every Star Wars film. There's a brief firefight at the very beginning, then not a whole lot happens until nearly the midpoint of the film. It takes a long time to get going, which is understandable for the opening film of a trilogy. ESB starts out interesting and has the Battle of Hoth, then Dagobah and the relatively uneventful first half of Cloud City consume the next hour. That's nearly half of each film that is "down time."

RotJ takes 15 minutes to get rolling, then we get the exciting Rancor and sand barge scenes back to back, then there's 10 minutes of "boring" Dagobah (which is 30 minutes shorter than ESB's segment), then we get the exciting speeder chase, then there's 25 minutes of mostly talking before the Battle of Endor starts. That adds up to about the same amount of "down time" as ANH and ESB, but it's broken up and spread around, rather than being in one large chunk.

Maybe you just don't like RotJ and find it boring because of that, not the other way around. It's actually not any worse paced than the two before it and, arguably, is better paced because there's never more than 25 minutes without something exciting happening.

Action is not the same as pacing though.

ESB doesn't have much action but I'd argue it is the Star Wars movie with the best pacing: there is always a threat and somewhere to get to.
 

Do Make Say Think

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I always got the sense the Ewoks were what they were to help show how arrogant the Empire had become up to that point.

Yes.

However there are many different ways to show that than Ewoks.

Ewoks were a cop out: the original plan had Endor be Kashyyyk, home of the Wookies.

That they went a different path isn't the problem. The problem is they went with cute cuddly teddy bears.
 

MadDevil

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Yes.

However there are many different ways to show that than Ewoks.

Ewoks were a cop out: the original plan had Endor be Kashyyyk, home of the Wookies.

That they went a different path isn't the problem. The problem is they went with cute cuddly teddy bears.

That eat people.:sarcasm:
 

ArGarBarGar

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Yes.

However there are many different ways to show that than Ewoks.

Ewoks were a cop out: the original plan had Endor be Kashyyyk, home of the Wookies.

That they went a different path isn't the problem. The problem is they went with cute cuddly teddy bears.
What's wrong with little teddy bears?

Hell they show a scene where one of the teddy bears literally dies on screen and his friend tries to wake him up until realizing he isn't ever going to wake up. It's so dark and it is fantastic.
 
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CaptainCrunch67

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Is there a cannibalistic angle I missed?!

:laugh:
Yeah as mentioned they wanted to eat Luke, Han and Chewie. And that landscape should have been littered with bodies, instead we saw a bunch of empty stormtrooper Helmets and Pilot Helmets.

I wouldn't be surprised in our heros' were enjoying the feast and then found out later that they had eaten a mighty heaping helping of Flank Steak due TP-1138
 
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Do Make Say Think

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What's wrong with little teddy bears?

Hell they show a scene where one of the teddy bears literally dies on screen and his friend tries to wake him up until realizing he isn't ever going to wake up. It's so dark and it is fantastic.

I wish I could explain why the Ewoks feel weak despite cool designs and all that jazz. They aren't a disaster in my mind, it just doesn't work all that well.

The fact that the Ewoks are contentious does make it hard to outright ignore.

Just like criticism of The Last Jedi really: too much of it to hand-waive it away as entirely reactionary nonsense.
 

Shockmaster

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Nothing from what I can tell is a reliable source, but there's an idea generating steam that this might get split into 2 movies ala Avengers Infinity War and Avengers 4.
 

Big Poppa Puck

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I've never really understood the hatred for ewoks, but maybe I was just the right age when I first saw ROTJ and they just never bothered me.

I didn't get the hate for Jar Jar Binks until I watched TPM again as an adult. Not that I was a fan it was just more like "What's so terrible about him?"
 

Osprey

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Wikipedia said:
As Ewoks are a carnivorous race that considers humanoid flesh a delicacy, they prepare fires in anticipation of eating Han, Luke and Chewbacca to absorb their power.
I will never look at Wicket the same way again.

I didn't get the hate for Jar Jar Binks until I watched TPM again as an adult. Not that I was a fan it was just more like "What's so terrible about him?"
A lot of us who grew up with the Ewoks felt the same way. We couldn't understand why some people didn't like them. It wasn't until TPM came out, when I was an adult, that I could finally sort of relate to how adults when RotJ was released might've felt. That said, at the risk of speaking for others, I don't think that you'll find many of us who have soured on the Ewoks since becoming adults. We may see now that they were partly designed to market to children, but we still like them. I'm not sure that Jar Jar receives the same sentiment from those who liked or didn't mind him as kids. It doesn't seem like he has (m)any defenders nowadays.

The Ewoks had a real purpose in RotJ as a primitive race that the arrogant Empire disregarded and that the Rebels needed help from, because they were stretched thin. Also, the fact that they captured and were about to eat the good guys, fought and killed many stormtroopers and one even died sadly all "subverted expectations" (our favorite phrase) that they would just be cute teddy bears. Jar Jar, on the other hand, was clearly just there for comic relief and was shoehorned in as the jedis' "guide" so that he could be around all film long to provide it. There were some amusing scenes with the Ewoks, but nothing close to over the top like most of Jar Jar's scenes. My point is that, while there may be some similarities, the Ewoks and Jar Jar are far from being equal transgressions, IMO. The Ewoks get merely poo-pooed by some, while Jar Jar is straight up universally hated.
 
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