Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - II

[bleedblue1223]

I'm more sad that they seem to have made him a living being again instead of some crazy force ghost that is still tied to the dark side.

Who knows, it could work.

I'm still holding out hope that he is a dark spirit in the beginning.

 

[Osprey]

Yeah, if done well, it could be a blessing in disguise. A Palp/Kylo dynamic does bring some interesting story lines. My guess is Palp is clearly looking for revenge on the Skywalker bloodline, too bad we'll only have 1 movie to see that dynamic.

You would think that he'd want revenge on the Skywalkers for destroying him in RotJ, but the person that he's apparently been controlling, Kylo, is a Skywalker. I suppose that you could argue that he used one Skywalker to kill another, Luke, but I don't believe that Kylo showed any interest in killing Luke until he literally got between him and the Resistance. He also didn't fire on the ship that his mother, also a Skywalker, was on when he had the chance. Through two movies so far, he hasn't acted like someone being influenced to carry out Palpatine's revenge against Skywalkers. If that's what Abrams goes with, it's not going to make much sense, I'm afraid.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You would think that he'd want revenge on the Skywalkers for destroying him in RotJ, but the person that he's apparently been controlling, Kylo, is a Skywalker. I suppose that you could argue that he used one Skywalker to kill another, Luke, but I don't believe that Kylo showed any interest in killing Luke until he literally got between him and the Resistance. He also didn't fire on the ship that his mother, also a Skywalker, was on when he had the chance. Through two movies so far, he hasn't acted like someone being influenced to carry out Palpatine's revenge against Skywalkers. If that's what Abrams goes with, it's not going to make much sense, I'm afraid.

Those details will be a bit weird since there wasn't an overall plan, but maybe we'll see it play out in 9.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

You would think that he'd want revenge on the Skywalkers for destroying him in RotJ, but the person that he's apparently been controlling, Kylo, is a Skywalker. I suppose that you could argue that he used one Skywalker to kill another, Luke, but I don't believe that Kylo showed any interest in killing Luke until he literally got between him and the Resistance. He also didn't fire on the ship that his mother, also a Skywalker, was on when he had the chance. Through two movies so far, he hasn't acted like someone being influenced to carry out Palpatine's revenge against Skywalkers. If that's what Abrams goes with, it's not going to make much sense, I'm afraid.

He's a tormented person. It adds so much depth to Ben Solo with the direction they seem to be going. He was manipulated his entire life to carry out Palpatine's plans that he thought were his own. It really is a tragedy.

Ben/Kylo can still make his own decisions but he's been twisted into what he has become due to Palpatine so he chose not to kill Leia because she was his mother and still cared for her underneath it all. We saw what killing Han Solo did to him. Plus the entire premise of TFA he was looking for the map to Luke to kill him.

It makes pretty good sense to me, now if Ben/Kylo continues to follow Palpatine after this is unveiled? That's where it won't make sense. The guy manipulated his entire life and he's just going to be ok with that?

 

[Tawnos]

You would think that he'd want revenge on the Skywalkers for destroying him in RotJ, but the person that he's apparently been controlling, Kylo, is a Skywalker. I suppose that you could argue that he used one Skywalker to kill another, Luke, but I don't believe that Kylo showed any interest in killing Luke until he literally got between him and the Resistance. He also didn't fire on the ship that his mother, also a Skywalker, was on when he had the chance. Through two movies so far, he hasn't acted like someone being influenced to carry out Palpatine's revenge against Skywalkers. If that's what Abrams goes with, it's not going to make much sense, I'm afraid.

Kylo clearly considered firing on the ship with Leia, but resisted whatever was causing the urge. And I was under the impression that Kylo wanting to find Luke in TFA was to eliminate him?

 

[Tawnos]

It makes pretty good sense to me, now if Ben/Kylo continues to follow Palpatine after this is unveiled? That's where it won't make sense. The guy manipulated his entire life and he's just going to be ok with that?

That pretty well sets up him teaming up with Rey.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Yeah, Kylo definitely wanted to kill Luke from the start.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

That pretty well sets up him teaming up with Rey.

That it does, which I think we all expect.

It would be really really dumb to do this but I wonder if the voiceover is from later in the movie while the scenes that we are seeing are from earlier in the movie. I don't know why they would spoil a "big reveal" like that in something like this though.

I just see Kylo doing Palpatine's bidding for most of the movie before having his come to moment where he starts his redemption. Kylo being told in the beginning "Hey, i'm the guy that screwed your entire life come join me and do what I tell you to do" and him following it seems farfetched.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That it does, which I think we all expect.

It would be really really dumb to do this but I wonder if the voiceover is from later in the movie while the scenes that we are seeing are from earlier in the movie. I don't know why they would spoil a "big reveal" like that in something like this though.

I just see Kylo doing Palpatine's bidding for most of the movie before having his come to moment where he starts his redemption. Kylo being told in the beginning "Hey, i'm the guy that screwed your entire life come join me and do what I tell you to do" and him following it seems farfetched.

Yeah, maybe the voice-lines are when Kylo and Rey both go to Palps, and Palps wants Rey instead, so he humiliates Kylo that he has just been a tool of his the whole time.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Yeah, maybe the voice-lines are when Kylo and Rey both go to Palps, and Palps wants Rey instead, so he humiliates Kylo that he has just been a tool of his the whole time.

That would make sense. It just probably loses a bit of the HOLY SHIT moment potential if they did it that way.

You're a bit damned if you do damned if you don't with this being revealed prior. If it's unveiled early it's not exactly believable that Kylo would just be ok with that. If it's unveiled later at a big moment well we knew it was coming.

But in the end this video got my excitement for the movie through the roof. No other video that has been released even moved the needle so it definitely did its marketing job.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

That would make sense. It just probably loses a bit of the HOLY **** moment potential if they did it that way.

You're a bit damned if you do damned if you don't with this being revealed prior. If it's unveiled early it's not exactly believable that Kylo would just be ok with that. If it's unveiled later at a big moment well we knew it was coming.

But in the end this video got my excitement for the movie through the roof. No other video that has been released even moved the needle so it definitely did its marketing job.

As long as the movie is centered around this idea, I am fine with however they do it. It's general idea of what was revealed that is exciting to me. +

 

[bleedblue1223]

That would make sense. It just probably loses a bit of the HOLY **** moment potential if they did it that way.

You're a bit damned if you do damned if you don't with this being revealed prior. If it's unveiled early it's not exactly believable that Kylo would just be ok with that. If it's unveiled later at a big moment well we knew it was coming.

But in the end this video got my excitement for the movie through the roof. No other video that has been released even moved the needle so it definitely did its marketing job.

Yeah, I was always going to see the movie at some point, just not sure when exactly. That clip moved up my excitement where I'll see it a bit sooner.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

It does sound stupid but when you take a seat back the Skywalker Saga was always tied to Palpatine and his manipulations so the more I think about it I can live with it if a Skywalker is the one to finally finish him off, aka Ben Solo has to do it.

If it's Rey I will be livid because, well, the Skywalker's didn't matter and the original trilogy is pointless.

I get what you're saying, but why even bring Palpatine back? They potentially opened an issue that was already closed and in no way needed reintroduced. So now we're going to get a super predictable scene where a mentee turns on his mentor AGAIN? Wow. Haven't seen that before. At least Rey would be something different (or maybe not - let's see if they don't force some meaningful parentage on her after all...)

This is the small world problem. All this forced connectivity is potentially (again in fairness, we'll see...) squeezing the story into the same molds all over again.

 

[x Tame Impala]

It just seems like such a lack of creativity for them to bring Palpatine back as the evil creative mastermind of everything. There has to be a better way to end this trilogy than going back to that old dried up well.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

I get what you're saying, but why even bring Palpatine back? They potentially opened an issue that was already closed and in no way needed reintroduced. So now we're going to get a super predictable scene where a mentee turns on his mentor AGAIN? Wow. Haven't seen that before. At least Rey would be something different (or maybe not - let's see if they don't force some meaningful parentage on her after all...)

This is the small world problem. All this forced connectivity is potentially (again in fairness, we'll see...) squeezing the story into the same molds all over again.

Let me be clear here. I'm not happy that Palpatine is coming back. I find it completely ridiculous and there is a very good chance that bringing him back will retroactively ruin the entire Saga, at least for me.

How they handle this return will be extremely important to decide that. If they bring him back in the ways that will completely negate anything the Skywalker family bloodline has done in the previous 8 movies I will be livid. If they bring him back how it looks like they are i'll be pleasantly happy IF they can come up with a reasonable explanation of how he is still alive.

We're calling these nine episodes the Skywalker Saga because it has been a story told with that family at its center. The Skywalker's are intertwined with Palpatine so it makes sense to bring him back for him to be the ultimate enemy as he has been for the Original Trilogy and the Prequel Trilogy. As it's been mentioned, I don't believe that Palpatine was the plan all along as Abrams wants to pretend but it's what we were left with after The Last Jedi. There weren't many loose ends to play off of.

What other scenario would we like to see in the final movie? Introducing a new villain? Kylo Ren being the big bad guy after he's failed the first two movies? Etc? No thank you. Palpatine just makes sense IMO. Could things have been planned better from the beginning? Of course but with where we are now I think it's the best option left assuming they do it properly.

"It's like poetry, they rhyme."

I do think they're going to bring back Rey's parentage for it to play a role, I don't know who it will be but I don't think it'll be that she's a Skywalker. For that reason I don't want her to be the one to finish off Palpatine knowing that they're referring to this as the Skywalker Saga. It just doesn't seem right even if we get the Mentor/mentee situation again I would rather see that than some random new character be the one to finish off Palpatine leaving the Skywalker family basically pointless and failures besides training Rey.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It just seems like such a lack of creativity for them to bring Palpatine back as the evil creative mastermind of everything. There has to be a better way to end this trilogy than going back to that old dried up well.

Possibly. But I have to think there is way to tie him in properly and it not come across as hamfisted.

It just remains to be seen if that is what we get in the film.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I think Palpatine's return comes down to how interesting you would've viewed Kylo as the big bad. If you didn't think Kylo would be good as the primary big bad, then Palpatine was really the only option they had IMO. Any other option just wouldn't have worked in any believable sense.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I think Palpatine's return comes down to how interesting you would've viewed Kylo as the big bad. If you didn't think Kylo would be good as the primary big bad, then Palpatine was really the only option they had IMO. Any other option just wouldn't have worked in any believable sense.

You are right. It's too late in the game to bring in a new villain.

But I think Kylo would have been fine as a big bad, particularly after the failed flirtation with Rey in TLJ which pushes him darker. No reason he couldn't have been written to come back in this bigger, stronger, badder, angrier, more broken, etc. (however you'd like classify him). Bringing back Palpatine undermines that potential and gives us yet another puppetmaster/man behind the curtain, which kinda takes some responsibility and agency off of Kylo. He's a more interesting villain without that backstop. But if there's someone worse behind him then that just easily sets up a lazy redemption of the student killing the master ... again.

It may not play out this way at all. That feels so obvious that I hope they don't go that way.

I'm not opposed to redemption for Kylo. Honestly I expect it. I'm just hoping they find a way to do it that doesn't involve a last second change of heart where he decides to kill the one guy who is worse than he is.

 

[x Tame Impala]

There’s nothing left to do but wait and see.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

He's a tormented person. It adds so much depth to Ben Solo with the direction they seem to be going. He was manipulated his entire life to carry out Palpatine's plans that he thought were his own. It really is a tragedy.

Ben/Kylo can still make his own decisions but he's been twisted into what he has become due to Palpatine so he chose not to kill Leia because she was his mother and still cared for her underneath it all. We saw what killing Han Solo did to him. Plus the entire premise of TFA he was looking for the map to Luke to kill him.

It makes pretty good sense to me, now if Ben/Kylo continues to follow Palpatine after this is unveiled? That's where it won't make sense. The guy manipulated his entire life and he's just going to be ok with that?

Of course it won't make sense, they've been winging it since day 1.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I think Palpatine's return comes down to how interesting you would've viewed Kylo as the big bad. If you didn't think Kylo would be good as the primary big bad, then Palpatine was really the only option they had IMO. Any other option just wouldn't have worked in any believable sense.

Kylo could have been an amazing bad guy but TLJ completely screwed it up. It was one of the best things of TFA: show us the villain become the fear inducing monster.

TLJ does a good job with trying to establish Kylo as his own character but then takes decides to end by making fun of him thus making it impossible for the audience to fear him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Kylo could have been an amazing bad guy but TLJ completely screwed it up.

I'm trying not to make this about decisions made in TLJ lol.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I'm trying not to make this about decisions made in TLJ lol.

That cannot be avoided. I'm a fan of TLJ but it really messed things up in terms of being a second act.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That cannot be avoided. I'm a fan of TLJ but it really messed things up in terms of being a second act.

Fair enough then, just don't want another discussion devolving into that stuff again. I'm trying to keep an open mind, darn it.