Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - II

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[Shockmaster]

Some advice - just ignore anyone claiming to have leaks or spoilers on the internet. They are almost always wrong, yet for some reason people keep coming back for more BS.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Some advice - just ignore anyone claiming to have leaks or spoilers on the internet. They are almost always wrong, yet for some reason people keep coming back for more BS.

Some are real, but the big theories tend to just be crap.

 

[Shockmaster]

Some are real, but the big theories tend to just be crap.

Any that turn out to be true are drowned out by the BS.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Any that turn out to be true are drowned out by the BS.

And if there are really good ones that are BS, you'll just be disappointed when 9 comes out. Anyone who theorized about Snoke on any level got disappointed in 8 because of it, Lucasfilm didn't help themselves either, they sort of invited the hype.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Who would have believed the tlj spoiler of first order chases the rebels in a low speed chase as the rebels slowly run out of gas

 

[bleedblue1223]

Who would have believed the tlj spoiler of first order chases the rebels in a low speed chase as the rebels slowly run out of gas

I still can't believe that was the premise of the movie. For the people that liked what Rian did because it was more creative than what JJ did, that was just such a boring and stupid overarching plot.

This isn't meant to be an attack on TLJ fans/defenders, just that we give Rian credit for taking risks, and that was the main objective in the film.

 

[MadDevil]

Some are real, but the big theories tend to just be crap.

You mean the theory that Palpatine impregnates Rey and sends her back in time to become Shmi Skywalker might be crap?

 

[bleedblue1223]

You mean the theory that Palpatine impregnates Rey and sends her back in time to become Shmi Skywalker might be crap?

Is that what it was? I saw a theory with Shmi in the title, didn't even bother clicking it.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

You mean the theory that Palpatine impregnates Rey and sends her back in time to become Shmi Skywalker might be crap?

I donno, the Emperor ensuring the man that kills him is born seems credible

 

[HanSolo]

I donno, the Emperor ensuring the man that kills him is born seems credible

Sheev has a thing for elaborate suicide.

 

[GabeTravels]

I still can't believe that was the premise of the movie. For the people that liked what Rian did because it was more creative than what JJ did, that was just such a boring and stupid overarching plot.

This isn't meant to be an attack on TLJ fans/defenders, just that we give Rian credit for taking risks, and that was the main objective in the film.

So I liked the movie, but I agree that plot was awful.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Hot take: that aspect of the plot was perfectly fine and not that big of a deal.

Resistance ships fast enough to outrun First Order ships, but can't do so indefinitely without being tracked, so they can only keep a safe enough distance away while they try to formulate a plan to actually get away. And yes, fuel can be a factor with big-ass spaceships.

The one criticism I have with that plot is the fact they attacked the flagship with fighters and did serious damage to it, but never did so again. I understand it gets lampshaded with the whole "FO is arrogant and would prefer to just slowly destroy them" which is a concept that villians in plenty of movies have utilized, but I can at least understand that aspect more.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Hot take: that aspect of the plot was perfectly fine and not that big of a deal.

Resistance ships fast enough to outrun First Order ships, but can't do so indefinitely without being tracked, so they can only keep a safe enough distance away while they try to formulate a plan to actually get away. And yes, fuel can be a factor with big-ass spaceships.

The one criticism I have with that plot is the fact they attacked the flagship with fighters and did serious damage to it, but never did so again. I understand it gets lampshaded with the whole "FO is arrogant and would prefer to just slowly destroy them" which is a concept that villians in plenty of movies have utilized, but I can at least understand that aspect more.

Right. The stupid part was how dumb Rian made Hux and the FO. The first part isn't why I think it was stupid. The fuel argument was always silly. The chase was a boring plot line, but not stupid.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

Sheev has a thing for elaborate suicide.

Abrams going from copying A New Hope to copying The Terminator

 

[Pilky01]

Making the antagonists a complete joke might not have been the best idea.

 

[x Tame Impala]

I still can't believe that was the premise of the movie. For the people that liked what Rian did because it was more creative than what JJ did, that was just such a boring and stupid overarching plot.

Not only was it a boring, ham-fisted, danger clock plot...it also didn’t make any sense.

The Resistance ship can only either be traveling: 1) faster than the FO ship, 2) slower than the FO ship, or 3) the exact same speed.

If it’s 1) then the Resistance would (very quickly) outpace the FO over the course of galactic travel distances and speeds and be able to escape.

If it’s 2) the Resistance would (again very quickly) be caught by the FO’s heavy artillery and/or tie-fighters and be destroyed.

If it’s 3) and the two ships are traveling at literally the exact same speed to where the FO cannot catch up and the Resistance cannot escape until they run out of fuel then it’s simply way too convenient of a premise and becomes ridiculous.

RJ wanted his battle-cruiser running out of time callback to WW2 moment but he did it without thinking it through. Another instance among many of him wanting his cool scene/premise without it making any sense from a writing sense.

 

[GlassesJacketShirt]

Making the antagonists a complete joke might not have been the best idea.

True, alas the Rebellion/Resistance needed a loophole to get out of that situation, and that loophole was unfathomable stupidity by the antagonistic party.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Right. The stupid part was how dumb Rian made Hux and the FO. The first part isn't why I think it was stupid. The fuel argument was always silly. The chase was a boring plot line, but not stupid.

Like I said, the villains being "dumb" and giving the protagonists an opportunity to escape or defeat them is not a new concept in storytelling.

Not only was it a boring, ham-fisted, danger clock plot...it also didn’t make any sense.

The Resistance ship can only either be traveling: 1) faster than the FO ship, 2) slower than the FO ship, or 3) the exact same speed.

If it’s 1) then the Resistance would (very quickly) outpace the FO over the course of galactic travel distances and speeds and be able to escape.

If it’s 2) the Resistance would (again very quickly) be caught by the FO’s heavy artillery and/or tie-fighters and be destroyed.

If it’s 3) and the two ships are traveling at literally the exact same speed to where the FO cannot catch up and the Resistance cannot escape until they run out of fuel then it’s simply way too convenient of a premise and becomes ridiculous.

RJ wanted his battle-cruiser running out of time callback to WW2 moment but he did it without thinking it through. Another instance among many of him wanting his cool scene/premise without it making any sense from a writing sense.

Even if the Resistance "gets away" the First Order is able to track them and get to them, regardless. And if they tried to just outrun them and go somewhere else they would have expended the remaining fuel they had on a pointless endeavor, which was why the entire situation was so dire in the first place.

Do you think if the First Order can track their ship through hyperspace they can't do so at much slower cruising speed?

 

[Blender]

Not only was it a boring, ham-fisted, danger clock plot...it also didn’t make any sense.

The Resistance ship can only either be traveling: 1) faster than the FO ship, 2) slower than the FO ship, or 3) the exact same speed.

If it’s 1) then the Resistance would (very quickly) outpace the FO over the course of galactic travel distances and speeds and be able to escape.

If it’s 2) the Resistance would (again very quickly) be caught by the FO’s heavy artillery and/or tie-fighters and be destroyed.

If it’s 3) and the two ships are traveling at literally the exact same speed to where the FO cannot catch up and the Resistance cannot escape until they run out of fuel then it’s simply way too convenient of a premise and becomes ridiculous.

RJ wanted his battle-cruiser running out of time callback to WW2 moment but he did it without thinking it through. Another instance among many of him wanting his cool scene/premise without it making any sense from a writing sense.

Star Wars isn't science fiction, so their ships have nothing realistic about it. The failure was RJ trying to use a science fiction plot device in a fantasy film with magic where the ships have always just worked with no explanation.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Like I said, the villains being "dumb" and giving the protagonists an opportunity to escape or defeat them is not a new concept in storytelling.

Yeah, it's not a new concept, but it's always been a lame one. SW was always built on stormtroopers having the worst aim in the galaxy. I think this is one of the areas that most can critique about the film without getting into a big argument, it's why I hate discussion TLJ at this point. I just hate how Hux was made into such a joke. I could buy the argument if it was arrogance, but Rian just made the FO look dumb for how Hux could've risen to his rank for being so gullible and a poor strategist.

Off-screen the Empire and FO conquer everything, but on-screen they make every mistake in the book. That's always frustrated me, not just in 8.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Star Wars isn't science fiction, so their ships have nothing realistic about it. The failure was RJ trying to use a science fiction plot device in a fantasy film with magic where the ships have always just worked with no explanation.

Fuel did exist in SW lore though, just not apparent in the movies. The closest was in Episode 1 when the hyper-drive was leaking. Clone Wars tv show talked about fuel many times.

I guess in Episode 2, Anakin mentioned to aim above the fuel cells.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Star Wars isn't science fiction, so their ships have nothing realistic about it. The failure was RJ trying to use a science fiction plot device in a fantasy film with magic where the ships have always just worked with no explanation.

In all honesty the opposite is true, in that ships have had regularly had vague issues or characteristics that are used as a means to move the plot forward.

TPM had the protagonists being forced to land on Tatooine to repair a damaged hyperdrive generator. ESB had Han Solo on the run from the Empire because the Falcon was in serious disrepair and could not make the jump to lightspeed.

Hell, both Death Stars had specific vague technical aspects to them that needed to be exploited to be destroyed (the exhaust port in ANH and the shield generator on Endor in ROTJ). To accept these plot devices but reject the concept of fuel being necessary for a ship (which is incredibly simple and either explicitly or implicitly understood as necessary for any automated vehicle in most, if not all, fictional worlds) seems like an incredibly major nitpick.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Yeah, it's not a new concept, but it's always been a lame one. SW was always built on stormtroopers having the worst aim in the galaxy. I think this is one of the areas that most can critique about the film without getting into a big argument, it's why I hate discussion TLJ at this point. I just hate how Hux was made into such a joke. I could buy the argument if it was arrogance, but Rian just made the FO look dumb for how Hux could've risen to his rank for being so gullible and a poor strategist.

Off-screen the Empire and FO conquer everything, but on-screen they make every mistake in the book. That's always frustrated me, not just in 8.

Without going into hindsight, what do you think the major mistakes that were made in TLJ that should have not at all been considered as viable strategies?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Without going into hindsight, what do you think the major mistakes that were made in TLJ that should have not at all been considered as viable strategies?

A supposedly ruthless group that the FO is, they should go for the throat when they have the chance. It's been awhile since I watched it, but didn't Kylo take out pretty much the entire Resistance fighters, and his wing-men too out the main bridge. But, then they pull back and don't ever try any sort of attack again. And there's also no way of boxing them in with a Star Destroyer coming in from the front.

But, like we all know, this is what happens in SW, it's always bugged me, it just got a little worse here. One of the things I hate the most about 7 is Starkiller base sucking the sun as it's weapon. What happens once the sun is gone. It's the dumbest design, probably worse than anything in 8. It doesn't ruin the movie for me, it's just one of the things you just have to roll with in this franchise.