Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - II

[NyQuil]

My beef isn't that he's a little kid with mechanical/tech/building skills. It's easy to establish that. Build an engine. Build another robot. Build something. Fine. My beef is that he literally builds C-3PO, one of the two droids in this entire massive universe who just happen to play a significant role in the rebellion and his eventual downfall. There are tons of ways he could have introduced Threepio to the prequel story (or, maybe even not at all...) and he picked by far the most asinine one. Yo, cool toy where you see his wires though

This is something that crops up in all of the other SW films.

You have C3PO and R2D2 playing prominent roles in the PT and yet are utterly forgotten in the OT.

In the latest trailer for the new film, it looks as if Rey kicks aside/runs past the very same helmet that Leia lost on Endor. Another insane coincidence that is utterly unnecessary.

It's as if there are only 6 planets in the galaxy.

 

[bleedblue1223]

They're really no further apart than ANH and ESB in terms of style, which also had different writers and directors.

Disagree on that. Lucas was the consistent throughout until he sold. He kept the big picture consistent and had the overall plan.

 

[bleedblue1223]

This is something that crops up in all of the other SW films.

You have C3PO and R2D2 playing prominent roles in the PT and yet are utterly forgotten in the OT.

In the latest trailer for the new film, it looks as if Rey kicks aside/runs past the very same helmet that Leia lost on Endor. Another insane coincidence that is utterly unnecessary.

It's as if there are only 6 planets in the galaxy.

I think there's this belief either with JJ or Disney that SW fans want a ton of easter eggs in everything.

I'd almost like if Rey and the new crew had their own ship instead of the Falcon for nostalgia purposes. Could've been cool if they really got creative to move the franchise forward a bit more. Or have more unique looking ships in general for FO and Resistance.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

Fair. I definitely understand your point and partially agree with it.

Sorry. I just have quick trigger on any "prequels >> TLJ" related discussions.

The quality of filmmaking, the look, the sets, the acting, etc. are so light years beyond the prequels that it outweighs any concerns I have about the storytelling. I certainly haven't loved every decision in the new trilogy (I still think one really underrated bit of TLJ stupidity is the GIANT CAVE EXIT no one seems to notice until they need to see it...) but the prequels have issues with everything — the look, the acting, the story. The new trilogy, at least to me, actually nails a lot of the little stuff.

 

[Tawnos]

That might not be how you do it, but I'd say you'd be in the minority. I've seen many critiques of SW content outside of the ST come down to creative decisions and that being a reason for why they didn't like them. Many still can't get past midichlorians.

You can understand the reasoning behind a decision and what they were trying to go for, but you should still be able to comment and critique that decision. You shouldn't just go along with it because that's what the decision was and that means it's on this pedestal that can't be touched.

I know I'm in the minority. Then again, I am a musician and I've had this exact conversation with several other musicians. We all pretty much agree that we'd rather be judged on the quality of what we put out than the decisions when made when writing, recording and engineering songs.

 

[Tawnos]

Disagree on that. Lucas was the consistent throughout until he sold. He kept the big picture consistent and had the overall plan.

Which has nothing to do with the obvious change from Lucas' style of direction to Kershner's.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sorry. I just have quick trigger on any "prequels >> TLJ" related discussions.

The quality of filmmaking, the look, the sets, the acting, etc. are so light years beyond the prequels that it outweighs any concerns I have about the storytelling. I certainly haven't loved every decision in the new trilogy (I still think one really underrated bit of TLJ stupidity is the GIANT CAVE EXIT no one seems to notice until they need to see it...) but the prequels have issues with everything — the look, the acting, the story. The new trilogy, at least to me, actually nails a lot of the little stuff.

I think we agree that too many times in SW they try to connect things to other important things too often. Like the Anakin/3PO moment. It's them saying, "hey remember that really important droid that you loved, well this "new" important character created him, so yay for importance."

Lucas had other creative mistakes like R2 having rockets in his legs, but apparently loses them when the OT rolls around.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Which has nothing to do with the obvious change from Lucas' style of direction to Kershner's.

It was just a darker theme, but the way everything flowed was consistent.

 

[NyQuil]

Decisions like Solo being given his name by an officer in the Empire, Luke becoming a bitter hermit, or the Rebels being aided by primitive locals on Endor are examples of the same thing.

It's rare when I hate a decision where it is executed well. I'm trying to think of an example.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

It was just a darker theme, but the way everything flowed was consistent.

I still have no idea what you mean by this.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know I'm in the minority. Then again, I am a musician and I've had this exact conversation with several other musicians. We all pretty much agree that we'd rather be judged on the quality of what we put out than the decisions when made when writing, recording and engineering songs.

Well, I guess that explains the different in views. With music, I can definitely understand why a musician or band would "sellout" for monetary reasons. It's a tough business to make it big in. Another aspect is how Mike Shinoda put it in an interview, creators evolve over time and you don't want to make the exact same music again and again, it's why Linkin Park has different styles from album to album at different points in their career.

That being said, consumers should be able to critique good and bad parts of movies, songs, books, etc. That includes the creative decisions in film making.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I still have no idea what you mean by this.

I mean you made your point that you don't understand going from mystery box to subvert expectations back to mystery box, so I think we are just at an impasse that we'll never get through.

 

[Tawnos]

It's rare when I hate a decision where it is executed well. I'm trying to think of an example.

Well, it's not really possible for me to give you an example from my end. I will say that there are plenty of examples of decisions that others hate that were executed well. Luke in TLJ is a good example.

 

[KallioWeHardlyKnewYe]

I think we agree that too many times in SW they try to connect things to other important things too often. Like the Anakin/3PO moment. It's them saying, "hey remember that really important droid that you loved, well this "new" important character created him, so yay for importance."

Lucas had other creative mistakes like R2 having rockets in his legs, but apparently loses them when the OT rolls around.

Amen. Not just a Star Wars problem IMO, though there are certainly good examples there.

I'm tired of it in big storytelling. Not every single thing needs connected. Blofeld can be a Bond villain without being related to James Bond. Joker doesn't have to connect to Robert Pattinson's Batman and neither of those need to be in the same world as The Justice League. To name a couple of examples off the top of my head (though, to be fair, the DC one may or may not come to be.)

Back to Star Wars, the crazy thing about forcing characters into a story that doesn't need to be there (like Threepio) is that there was an opportunity there to create a new character (or toy) to sell!

 

[Lt Dan]

I am even more stoked for this after reading this

Richard E. Grant gushes after seeing 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker': 'Nothing prepares you for this'

15 more days!

 

[bleedblue1223]

Amen. Not just a Star Wars problem IMO, though there are certainly good examples there.

I'm tired of it in big storytelling. Not every single thing needs connected. Blofeld can be a Bond villain without being related to James Bond. Joker doesn't have to connect to Robert Pattinson's Batman and neither of those need to be in the same world as The Justice League. To name a couple of examples off the top of my head (though, to be fair, the DC one may or may not come to be.)

Back to Star Wars, the crazy thing about forcing characters into a story that doesn't need to be there (like Threepio) is that there was an opportunity there to create a new character (or toy) to sell!

They created a new toy, it just happened to be naked 3PO lol. Even with a new character, it's still comes off lame. Like with Maz and Luke's saber. JJ made Maz important simply because she had that saber.

 

[Shockmaster]

Who had a more useful role in their respective movie - Jar Jar Binks in Episode I or Rose in Episode VIII?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Who had a more useful role in their respective movie - Jar Jar Binks in Episode I or Rose in Episode VIII?

Without Jar Jar, Naboo probably loses the battle to the Trade Federation. While an idiot, without him, the humans and gungans probably don't make peace.

 

[Tawnos]

Well, I guess that explains the different in views. With music, I can definitely understand why a musician or band would "sellout" for monetary reasons. It's a tough business to make it big in. Another aspect is how Mike Shinoda put it in an interview, creators evolve over time and you don't want to make the exact same music again and again, it's why Linkin Park has different styles from album to album at different points in their career.

That being said, consumers should be able to critique good and bad parts of movies, songs, books, etc. That includes the creative decisions in film making.

Ultimately, people can have opinions on whatever they want. But I do think this kind of thing explains at least some of the divide. I'm more free to find value and fully feel the impact of what happens with Luke in TLJ because I'm not annoyed that they turned him into this character in the first place. And so, I do. At the same time, I do think there were execution problems with several parts of TLJ.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I mean you made your point that you don't understand going from mystery box to subvert expectations back to mystery box, so I think we are just at an impasse that we'll never get through.

I made it clear that those aren't "styles" in my view and am curious why you think those are.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Ultimately, people can have opinions on whatever they want. But I do think this kind of thing explains at least some of the divide. I'm more free to find value and fully feel the impact of what happens with Luke in TLJ because I'm not annoyed that they turned him into this character in the first place. And so, I do. At the same time, I do think there were execution problems with several parts of TLJ.

Why do you assume I can't feel the impact of what happened to Luke? It's not like I folded my arms became a grouch and refused to take in the movie.

 

[Ducks in a row]

 

[IceNeophyte]

I am even more stoked for this after reading this

Richard E. Grant gushes after seeing 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker': 'Nothing prepares you for this'

15 more days!

Breaking news: Actor in movie raves about movie

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Breaking news: Actor in movie raves about movie

Everyone knows that the real barometer is Kevin Smith.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I like how he talks about doing seminars then when asked about it posts a YouTube video of a kid's "Top 35 things bad about TLJ!"

Twitter is the height of discourse.