Movies: Star Wars - Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker - II

[x Tame Impala]

Regular jedi don't procreate, so midichlorians will still pop up in a high count at random.

I know. Just saying that it wasn’t a plot hole or anything that needed any further explanation than we got.

 

[Tawnos]

I know. Just saying that it wasn’t a plot hole or anything that needed any further explanation than we got.

That we don't "need" an explanation doesn't automatically mean that getting an explanation a bad thing.

And expanding knowledge on a subject doesn't require there to be a conceptual hole in understanding. For example, I can understand perfectly well that an ocean plate subducting beneath a continental plate will create volcanoes like those in the Pacific Northwest. I can understand this without knowing the exact mechanism of how the magma that creates the volcano forms.

 

[x Tame Impala]

That we don't "need" an explanation doesn't automatically mean that getting an explanation a bad thing.

And expanding knowledge on a subject doesn't require there to be a conceptual hole in understanding. For example, I can understand perfectly well that an ocean plate subducting beneath a continental plate will create volcanoes like those in the Pacific Northwest. I can understand this without knowing the exact mechanism of how the magma that creates the volcano forms.

It was a dumb explanation regardless of whether we needed it or not

 

[Tawnos]

It was a dumb explanation regardless of whether we needed it or not

I don't agree with that. I think it makes sense that it wouldn't just be "magic"...

 

[x Tame Impala]

I don't agree with that. I think it makes sense that it wouldn't just be "magic"...

I’d rather it just be vague magic than any sort of cellular-level explanation

 

[Tawnos]

I’d rather it just be vague magic than any sort of cellular-level explanation

That's a valid opinion, but why is that?

 

[bleedblue1223]

Midichlorians doesn't explain the force, just who are capable of using it.

 

[x Tame Impala]

That's a valid opinion, but why is that?

Making Jedi powers a pseudo-genetic thing takes away from the mythical, samurai-inspired code they follow

 

[bleedblue1223]

Making Jedi powers a pseudo-genetic thing takes away from the mythical, samurai-inspired code they follow

They still follow the jedi code though.

 

[Tawnos]

Making Jedi powers a pseudo-genetic thing takes away from the mythical, samurai-inspired code they follow

Except that it's always been understood to be genetic. Since 1977. Luke wasn't some random farm boy. He was the son of a Jedi Knight.

Even if that weren't the case, your statement doesn't explain how it takes away from it. I'm not trying to say that as a criticism. I honestly want to understand why people feel that way. You certainly aren't the only one.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Except that it's always been understood to be genetic. Since 1977. Luke wasn't some random farm boy. He was the son of a Jedi Knight.

Even if that weren't the case, your statement doesn't explain how it takes away from it.

Already talked about it on the previous page...

I think there’s a semantic difference between the two. On one hand you have the passing down of a legacy and abilities from a supremely unique man down to his son. On the other you have a distinct/exact explanation of the biological and cellular passing down of precise genetic capabilities through a microscopic organism.

One is more mysterious and mythical. The other is an exact reasoning that IMO takes away from the “legend” of the Jedi. Midochlorians make the Jedi seem more like X-men than mythical people who’ve dedicated their lives to becoming one with the universe.

 

[Tawnos]

Already talked about it on the previous page...

That doesn't really explain anything. It's just another way of framing the same thing.

I don't see how it would make any sense for only someone unique (there are no grades of uniqueness... unique means one-of-a-kind) to be able to pass on their abilities. As also has been pointed out, inheritance is not the only way to be strong in the Force. It's not even clear that it's a particularly reliable way.

Being a Jedi still requires discipline and dedication to becoming one with the universe, no matter what your family history might be. That there is a scientific explanation for someone being strong with the Force doesn't change this.

 

[x Tame Impala]

That there is a scientific explanation for someone being strong with the Force doesn't change this.

For you, maybe. I think it cheapens it. To each their own

 

[Tawnos]

For you, maybe. I think it cheapens it. To each their own

I'll understand if there's no further explanation than "it just does" but I was really hoping to understand why/how it cheapens it.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Midichlorians makes more sense if it had been a proxy of Jedi/Force potential rather than the source of Jedi/Force powers in the first place. You don't put that kind world shifting information in a plot device to justify why a complete stranger is suddenly and immediately extremely interested in the fate of some random slave boy he just met.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Midichlorians makes more sense if it had been a proxy of Jedi/Force potential rather than the source of Jedi/Force powers in the first place. You don't put that kind world shifting information in a plot device to justify why a complete stranger is suddenly and immediately extremely interested in the fate of some random slave boy he just met.

It's not the source though. Qui-Gon was immediately interested because his midichlorian count was off the charts, and they didn't understand what that meant. Midichlorians just allows you to have a connection to the force, you still have to train and learn about it to use and become proficient and powerful with it.

 

[RandV]

That's another stupid thing about the prequels. When Yoda claims that Luke is too old for Jedi training, it's easy to think okay, maybe as an adult it's too late and his personality/flaws are too developed. I guess you have to be a child.

Then Lucas doubles down into stupidity by making Anakin too old in Phantom Menace when he's not too much older than a toddler. For what amounts to very little narrative benefit we're left with lore that suggests that children above a toddler age are too old for Jedi training and the Jedi are left to discover or be informed of force sensitives at a younger age. And since Jedi aren't allowed to love, presumably they're not allowed to have children. So how do they even find these force sensitives? There doesn't seem the be a Cerebro for force sensitives since Anakin, someone with a ton of midichlorians was found by utter happenstance (or the Will of the Force). You can't rely on parents to report on force sensitivity if their children are too young to demonstrate any superhuman abilities. So what is Lucas trying to suggest? That Republic planets do mandatory blood testing of all newborns? Or that every Jedi found is a toddler or younger found on a Jedi's adventure's spare time?

Midichlorians and the age requirement are two of the stupidest things Lucas contributed to the lore. I'd say the Jedi aren't allowed to love thing too but if Jedi are Sci fi equivalents to monks then at least that makes sense.

As an aside this kind of highlights why it's best to leave certain things vague in Star Wars. It's not hard science fiction, it's fantasy science fiction. This it does very well, but one of the cons here is if you start digging into the details it becomes far more full of holes than regular science fiction. Lucas talent at casting the childhood imagination into space and capturing it on camera, not in writing good science fiction.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

It's not the source though

W/o midichlorianes the Jedi couldn't connect to or even conceptualize the Force.

 

[bleedblue1223]

W/o midichlorianes the Jedi couldn't connect to or even conceptualize the Force.

Yes, they'd be regular people. That's much better than literally anyone becoming a jedi if they wanted to.

 

[HanSolo]

Yes, they'd be regular people. That's much better than literally anyone becoming a jedi if they wanted to.

Still, the implication was/is that the Force mysteriously chooses who can commune with it, be it machinations of fate or whatever. Midichlorians only make that a biological manifestation that was narratively unnecessary. Again it's symbolic to Lucas' convenience writing. The only purpose it serves is to establish that Anakin is quantifiably more powerful than other Jedi. It's part of the greater scope of making Anakin into some kind of tragic fallen space Jesus.

We've already seen that Jedi and Sith can detect other force sensitives passively so what does it help if you can test someone's blood for Midichlorians?

I never minded the biological manifestation of force sensitivity since it can be said there can still be a mystical element to Midichlorians themselves and how they come to he present in a living being, but we didn't need them at all. The biggest narrative contribution to their existence is one character's developmental plot convenience. Anakin could have been established as more powerful than others without a biological reason being tacked on. If anything it cheapens the mythological standing Anakin/Vader has a figure if his power is more genetic anomaly than mystic intervention.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

W/o midichlorianes the Jedi couldn't connect to or even conceptualize the Force.

Red blood cells are not the source of oxygen

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Red blood cells are not the source of oxygen

I said the source of Jedi/Force powers, bot the source of the Force itself.

 

[Tawnos]

You can be fantasy while still incorporating more elements of science-fiction than just being set in space with space ships. Unimaginatively, it tends to be called science fantasy.

Something that reminded me of the whole midichlorian thing in a context that wasn't a hard science fiction one... has anyone read the Broken Earth trilogy by NK Jemison? (If you haven't, you should). It's a science fantasy series. There are characters who are basically sorcerers who can affect things tectonically even down to a localized manner, but they're capable of this because of a specialized organ in their brain stem. It's magic, but there's a reason for it to exist beyond just being there.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Anyone see Freddie Prinze Jr's rant? Not sure why he's so upset and why so many people go with the "it's for kids" argument.

 

[Jussi]

The official trailer should be released by the 21st if not next Monday and tickets are expected to go on sale then.