Speculation: Staios no longer with Oilers, rumoured to join Sens org

[Xspyrit]

Under Marc Bergevin, the Habs had a .625 pts% and made the CF and SCF.

In 5 of 9 seasons they finished with (or played at a pace of) more than 100 pts.

Not that terrible...

For reference, this franchise hasn't finished a season with 100+ pts since 2006/07. That's 16 years ago. John Muckler was the GM.

Imagine what Bergevin could have done without Trevor Timmins. Keeping him was his biggest mistake IMO. His trades (outside of Drouin) and signings (until some later) were great. He kinda of « lost it » towards the end with Alzner, Anderson, Gallagher. Mailloux was a wtf moment but he just got cleared to play in the NHL. His other biggest mistake was to not re-sign Danault

People will criticize him based on things like Drouin and Gallagher but often won’t look at the bigger picture… I mean he took an awful drafting team that didn’t have that much outside of Price, Subban and Pacioretty and other aging vets and had some pretty respectable results

I’m less concerned with mediocre points percentages and a couple of improbably runs. I’m much more concerned with the massive blunders at he draft and trade table when the team needed a boost most.

Just a classic example of a guy who just couldn’t capitalize on his good moves due a subsequent terrible move.

No thank you. I’d prefer something different. We have an awesome core and the wins and win percentage will come no matter who is at the helm, unless they are known to make some pretty brutal moves.

Bergy has some Milbury in him in my opinion. I’m cool if you’re cool with him though.

0.625 P% would be anything but mediocre, it would have been 7th overall from 2012-23 to 2020-21. That said, I think Jody made a mistake, their P% during that period was 0.566, which was good for 14th overall.

You say this as if the current team that we have that took 6+ years to build (despite probably the best starting wealth in history) will easily have better than this mediocre 0.625 P%. That’s quite the expectations

Habs were a bubble team under Bergevin all these years but had some satisfying results in that context. The weakness was definitely their drafting, which was so weak for a decade after their great 2007 draft

But to say that Bergevin has some « Bergy has some Milbury in him » when we have been stuck with Pierre Dorion for 7+ years is quite ironic lol

 

[Xspyrit]

As has been pointed out, it also shouldn't shock anyone that the team has a bright future. When you blow up a team, trade numerous star players (Karlsson, Stone, Duchene), several other good players (Brassard, Pageau, Hoffman, Dzingel), and then suck for half a decade, it's very difficult to screw up so badly that your team doesn't have a bright future. That's the reality of spending so much time at the bottom of the league selecting high in the draft, as well as racking up a large number of prospects and quality picks from selling existing talent. Sens had more talent to trade away than any other rebuilding team in the last decade. We really should be in a better position than we are right now given that, and Dorion's failings are a big reason for that.

I don’t know how many times I have been repeating that but it has been constantly ignored. Like you said it best before, Sens have a bright future IN SPITE of Dorion. At least he didn’t screw up on a few important moves like Karlsson trade, Tkachuk and Stutzle picks and extension… but damn, imagine the potential dynasty we could have with a good GM who would have treated every asset/$ carefully

It's not just draft position though, we started with assets such as Karlsson, Stone, etc. @Xspyrit has written extensively about this stuff, so I won't repeat.

Seriously I have no idea how can anybody would have done worse. After the firesale, if we kept all our assets, traded the right ones (like Tierney and Duclair for example) and just went with McKenzie’s pre draft rankings for our picks, we would absolutely be in a better position. I invite Hale or someone else to look into that as I am away in the States with no computer right now.

 

[bert]

First off I was not replying to you, and if you think I love Melnyk, well you would be wrong on that point…. But I guess you think that is an insult or something…. Over the years I’ve made my opinion of the former owner well known…. Neither loved or hated him… but I guess in your universe there is no in between.

New ownership make their changes… I’m simply pointing out it is not going to happen as soon as the haters want it to happen, because the new owners don’t act like the haters do.

You defended Melnyk to no end... Your entire post history backs it up. Just going by the content.

Not liking Dorions body of work and all the drama/firings is not hating its paying attention.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

You defended Melnyk to no end... Your entire post history backs it up. Just going by the content.

Not liking Dorions body of work and all the drama/firings is not hating its paying attention.

Common sense explanations, about why the former owner operated in the manner he did, is not defending …. But to haters, perhaps they saw it that way, as for them, there was no middle ground, only hate or love.

 

[BondraTime]

Will see some additions in the coming weeks, won’t see any firings until this coming April/May I wouldn’t think.

Probably get a POHO, some additional regional and professional scouts, Alfie in an advisory role for the season.

Wouldn’t mind reaching out to guys like Vermette and R. Robatille to see if they’d like to help out on the amateur side of things in a part time role to increase the number of experienced eyes without having to commit to a full time gig.

 

[bicboi64]

Imagine what Bergevin could have done without Trevor Timmins. Keeping him was his biggest mistake IMO. His trades (outside of Drouin) and signings (until some later) were great. He kinda of « lost it » towards the end with Alzner, Anderson, Gallagher. Mailloux was a wtf moment but he just got cleared to play in the NHL. His other biggest mistake was to not re-sign Danault

People will criticize him based on things like Drouin and Gallagher but often won’t look at the bigger picture… I mean he took an awful drafting team that didn’t have that much outside of Price, Subban and Pacioretty and other aging vets and had some pretty respectable results

Gotta disagree with you here. Bergevin had a crap ton of assets when he took over so a couple of ECFs is something that his team should've absolutely made. I'm not even counting their cup finals since they wouldn' even make the playoffs if not for covid.

The dude found a way to mess up the Habs cap situation with the Price contract and never knew when to move on from declining vets (look at Gallagher). He had very poor pro player evaluation and his contracts were brutal. Very active GM who threw enough crap on the wall hoping some of it would stick.

 

[Xspyrit]

Gotta disagree with you here. Bergevin had a crap ton of assets when he took over so a couple of ECFs is something that his team should've absolutely made. I'm not even counting their cup finals since they wouldn' even make the playoffs if not for covid.

The dude found a way to mess up the Habs cap situation with the Price contract and never knew when to move on from declining vets (look at Gallagher). He had very poor pro player evaluation and his contracts were brutal. Very active GM who threw enough crap on the wall hoping some of it would stick.

I didn’t say he should have won GM of the year but despite starting with some good players, their depth was bad and their drafting was so bad that there was no way to fix it

Like every GM it’s a mix of good and bad so some of the signings were good, it was exacerbated by the lack of good prospects able to come on their ELCs so they ended up overpaid for too many UFAs (Montreal couldn’t attract them much)

 

[Ice-Tray]

Imagine what Bergevin could have done without Trevor Timmins. Keeping him was his biggest mistake IMO. His trades (outside of Drouin) and signings (until some later) were great. He kinda of « lost it » towards the end with Alzner, Anderson, Gallagher. Mailloux was a wtf moment but he just got cleared to play in the NHL. His other biggest mistake was to not re-sign Danault

People will criticize him based on things like Drouin and Gallagher but often won’t look at the bigger picture… I mean he took an awful drafting team that didn’t have that much outside of Price, Subban and Pacioretty and other aging vets and had some pretty respectable results



0.625 P% would be anything but mediocre, it would have been 7th overall from 2012-23 to 2020-21. That said, I think Jody made a mistake, their P% during that period was 0.566, which was good for 14th overall.

You say this as if the current team that we have that took 6+ years to build (despite probably the best starting wealth in history) will easily have better than this mediocre 0.625 P%. That’s quite the expectations

Habs were a bubble team under Bergevin all these years but had some satisfying results in that context. The weakness was definitely their drafting, which was so weak for a decade after their great 2007 draft

But to say that Bergevin has some « Bergy has some Milbury in him » when we have been stuck with Pierre Dorion for 7+ years is quite ironic lol

Irony is saying that his trades and signings were great, and then listing several that were bad, missing some of course, and blaming Timmins for his massive drafting blunders.

You don’t like PD and it has created a bitter bias in your posts over that last several years that I have zero interest in rehashing.

We had just as many satisfying moments as the habs did under berg, with a fraction of the resources.

Not impressed with him and was surprised he lasted so long. I wouldn’t want him anywhere near our team, though I bet habs fans would be stoked if PD did their drafting and development at the very least lol.

 

[GCK]

I didn’t say he should have won GM of the year but despite starting with some good players, their depth was bad and their drafting was so bad that there was no way to fix it

Like every GM it’s a mix of good and bad so some of the signings were good, it was exacerbated by the lack of good prospects able to come on their ELCs so they ended up overpaid for too many UFAs (Montreal couldn’t attract them much)

Bergevin had unlimited funds to work with and destroyed the Habs. He is on par with Dorion.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Bergevin had unlimited funds to work with and destroyed the Habs. He is on par with Dorion.

Except PD didn’t destroy the Sens, he’s pretty much done the opposite.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Except PD didn’t destroy the Sens, he’s pretty much done the opposite.

The Sens were an average Martin Jones season away from complete disaster.

Hey maybe we would have been lucky with a Bedard/Fantilli.

 

[GCK]

Except PD didn’t destroy the Sens, he’s pretty much done the opposite.

Sure.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Except PD didn’t destroy the Sens, he’s pretty much done the opposite.

Incoming "but he traded away Karlsson, Turris, and Stone,!"

 

[Micklebot]

The Sens were an average Martin Jones season away from complete disaster.

Hey maybe we would have been lucky with a Bedard/Fantilli.

Our team Sv% was pretty much an average Jones season.

We were .895sv% and he's averaged .895 over the last 5 seasons.

 

[Wondercarrot]

The Sens were an average Martin Jones season away from complete disaster.

Hey maybe we would have been lucky with a Bedard/Fantilli.

I’d say despite all our injuries we were still a league average goalie season away from the playoffs.

 

[bert]

Will see some additions in the coming weeks, won’t see any firings until this coming April/May I wouldn’t think.

Probably get a POHO, some additional regional and professional scouts, Alfie in an advisory role for the season.

Wouldn’t mind reaching out to guys like Vermette and R. Robatille to see if they’d like to help out on the amateur side of things in a part time role to increase the number of experienced eyes without having to commit to a full time gig.

Dorion has proven he can't co exist with anyone. Don't see him lasting the season especially if Alfie is around.

 

[bert]

Incoming "but he traded away Karlsson, Turris, and Stone,!"

Nick Paul, conner brown, Filip Gustavsson, Dylan demelo, let duclair walk. For nothing basically. The sens are literally paying 4 players to not play for them this year and don't have cap space to sign Pinto. It's an endless amount of terrible pro player evaluations and bad decisions. If San Jose didn't fall off a cliff in the year 2020 he'd have nothing to stand on. You can defend Dorion until you're blue in the face he's a gonner for all the reasons and plenty more than I have listed.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Dorion has proven he can't co exist with anyone. Don't see him lasting the season especially if Alfie is around.

Alfie will not be above Dorion in the chain of command.

If he is, we have serious problems in the organization.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Nick Paul, conner brown, Filip Gustavsson, Dylan demelo, let duclair walk. For nothing basically. The sens are literally paying 4 players to not play for them this year and don't have cap space to sign Pinto. It's an endless amount of terrible pro player evaluations and bad decisions. If San Jose didn't fall off a cliff in the year 2020 he'd have nothing to stand on. You can defend Dorion until you're blue in the face he's a gonner for all the reasons and plenty more than I have listed.

We'll see.

 

[Qward]

Is this a Dorion thread or a Staios rumor thread?

 

[bert]

Alfie will not be above Dorion in the chain of command.

If he is, we have serious problems in the organization.

According to a staunch Melnyk defender.... You are going to be upset. Great chance he is the POHO at some point. If you think Dorion is more important to this organization and franchise thats a whole other issue. The only reason he had the job was to be a yes man for Melnyk doing it for pennies at the dollar no one else would. Alfredsson is debatably the most important person in franchise history. He brought this team out of purgatory, he is the best Ottawa Senator ever. He mentored the most talented senator ever. He is a person that carries himself with integrity, poise and is a student of the game. He is also one of the most competitive people you will ever meet. He could not be around Melnyk and his yes men so he left. Its no coincidence when he came back. He will be here for a long long time well after Dorion is gone.

 

[Gil Gunderson]

Our team Sv% was pretty much an average Jones season.

We were .895sv% and he's averaged .895 over the last 5 seasons.

What I meant is that if Martin Jones had an average season in 2019-2020 Dorion’s rebuild would be looking like a mess right now. Getting Stutzle is really the only thing keeping Dorion afloat. The other core trades (Stone, Duchene) really have nothing to show for.

 

[Micklebot]

What I meant is that if Martin Jones had an average season in 2019-2020 Dorion’s rebuild would be looking like a mess right now. Getting Stutzle is really the only thing keeping Dorion afloat. The other core trades (Stone, Duchene) really have nothing to show for.

Ah, my bad, double missed your point, not average for Martin Jones, but average league wide, and not for us, but wrt our Stu pick.

 

[BondraTime]

Andlauer will start putting his pieces in place, in areas that can be filled.

Some spots are unlikely to be filled, and with the season starting in a month, likely to stay that way until the end of season.

POHO, some scouting positions, some directors and analytical hires. I'd expect these to be made in the next month or so. I'd expect a new big name scout to be named in the next couple of weeks, filling Mann's departed role.

He's not coming in off the cuff, he knows who he wants, and is in all likelihood, going to be in those positions, the timing throws a wrench in a complete overhaul.

I'm not a fan of Timmons, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andlauer has spoken to him/CLB about a promotion to director of Scouting for the Sens

 

[Alf Silfversson]

Nick Paul, conner brown, Filip Gustavsson, Dylan demelo, let duclair walk. For nothing basically. The sens are literally paying 4 players to not play for them this year and don't have cap space to sign Pinto. It's an endless amount of terrible pro player evaluations and bad decisions. If San Jose didn't fall off a cliff in the year 2020 he'd have nothing to stand on. You can defend Dorion until you're blue in the face he's a gonner for all the reasons and plenty more than I have listed.

Exactly. Not only that, we haven't made the playoffs in 6 years and we haven't picked in the first round for the last two. Last year we didn't pick until the 4th. Out of our core-ish players we have only Chychrun to show for that. With Dorion at the helm our window is shrinking.

Since the 2020 draft we haven't drafted a single player who looks like a surefire NHLer (I really like Ostapchuk's chances of being at least a good grinder). While I really like our young core of NHL players our window will shut quicker than we think because we don't have the prospects to back fill our roster as people price themselves out of town. The next GM is going to have to get creative in order to restore a healthy prospect pool to keep our window of contention open for more than a few years.