SSM Greyhounds 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 3)

[soo hound girl]

Well Kitchener beat Erie tonight so they are 2 pts up with now 1 game in hand big game tomorrow gonna be tough Saginaw just got Wilde back from the AHL

 

[Slap Shot Rick]

Bode Wilde is not an overager. He was 19 when the season started.

 

[Fischhaber]

We're keeping Saginaw in check offensively, but we'll never win a game where more than a quarter of their shots go in. I want to see more of the Malik that we saw in Ottawa and Peterborough. This is a really bad time for him to lay an egg.

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

Here we go again, stats say we should win but the goalie let us down again.
It is getting a little old don't you think. If you have burned through 4 goalies don't you think you need to look elsewhere to see what the problem is. I will give you a hint, pay attention to what happens before the puck goes in the net and not just look at the last person who had a chance to stop it.

 

[DWI Dale]

an old broken record nobody listens to anymore.

 

[Fischhaber]

Here we go again, stats say we should win but the goalie let us down again.
It is getting a little old don't you think. If you have burned through 4 goalies don't you think you need to look elsewhere to see what the problem is. I will give you a hint, pay attention to what happens before the puck goes in the net and not just look at the last person who had a chance to stop it.

You give the same copy and paste response after every single game. That's what really gets old.

Saginaw's top line had several good opportunities, like you would expect, but the rest of their team had almost nothing going on in the offensive end. There were defensive breakdowns, but you can't let 6 goals in on maybe 10 good scoring chances. That's just unacceptably poor.

Frappier unquestionably faced a similar number of chances (or more) and made the saves when it counted. That's what happens on winning teams. It's the difference between us and Saginaw this year.

 

[DWI Dale]

"And why does this happen so repetitively — why do they never admit they were wrong?

The answer is related to their ego, their very sense-of-self. Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate. Accepting they were wrong, absorbing that reality, would be so psychologically shattering, their defense mechanisms do something remarkable to avoid doing so — they literally distort their perception of reality to make it (reality) less threatening. Their defense mechanisms protect their fragile ego by changing the very facts in their mind, so they are no longer wrong or culpable."

Why Certain People Will Never Admit They Were Wrong

 

[NA Hockey]

If you think the only difference between the Soo and the Spirit is how much better Frappier is than Malik , I don't know what to tell you. The Soo have a good young core that will be very good next year and the year after, but this year they are not in the same class as Saginaw. It's like saying two years ago the only reason the Soo beat Sag every time was the goaltending. No. at that time in their cycle they were entirely better at every position..

The Greyhounds fought hard tonight but they don't have the team to compete this season as evidenced by their place in the standings. They are 1-6 against Sag so far, that's not on the goalies only.

Go watch every goal in tonights game again, the problem wasn't goaltending, it was the defending before a shot was ever taken. Puck management, d-zone play, turnovers, neutral zone play. Those are not on the goalie.

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

Fisch, you got to seriously relax and understand when someone is pushing your buttons.
I made the comment in part because unlike you I know the problem lies with the age and experience of the players and the poor choices of GM and coach but the largest part was to get you going with the stats B.S.
If you have paid attention to my posts they have never wavered once; I don't change narratives or facts when it suits my point of view.
I apologize, I didn't mean to get you going....well I did out a sick perversion of seeing how you could twist that game around.
I will leave you with this, Frappier has spent his entire career barely staying in the league and he suddenly gets on a good team and now he is a good goalie who makes saves when needed. Do you ever think of and appreciate what a good team does for a goalie. The Soo as constructed and playing the system they do is not conducive to goaltending. End of story.

 

[Generalsupdates]

"And why does this happen so repetitively — why do they never admit they were wrong?

The answer is related to their ego, their very sense-of-self. Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate. Accepting they were wrong, absorbing that reality, would be so psychologically shattering, their defense mechanisms do something remarkable to avoid doing so — they literally distort their perception of reality to make it (reality) less threatening. Their defense mechanisms protect their fragile ego by changing the very facts in their mind, so they are no longer wrong or culpable."

Why Certain People Will Never Admit They Were Wrong

 

[Fischhaber]

Fisch, you got to seriously relax and understand when someone is pushing your buttons.
I made the comment in part because unlike you I know the problem lies with the age and experience of the players and the poor choices of GM and coach but the largest part was to get you going with the stats B.S.
If you have paid attention to my posts they have never wavered once; I don't change narratives or facts when it suits my point of view.
I apologize, I didn't mean to get you going....well I did out a sick perversion of seeing how you could twist that game around.
I will leave you with this, Frappier has spent his entire career barely staying in the league and he suddenly gets on a good team and now he is a good goalie who makes saves when needed. Do you ever think of and appreciate what a good team does for a goalie. The Soo as constructed and playing the system they do is not conducive to goaltending. End of story.

Statistics that use shots on goal are not BS. What you're getting at is that that scoring chance % is slightly more reliable than simply using shots and that is correct. We don't have that kind of data for the OHL, but the Greyhounds give up their share. I'm not blind to the fact that we give up a lot of scoring chances sometimes.

That being said, our .862 team save percentage is not explained away by the skaters alone. Over a full season, that would be the worst save percentage since the turn of the century and almost certainly one of the worst goaltending performances in the history of the league, if not the worst. The only teams I could find that are even close are the 2006/07 Erie Otters, who won 15 games, and this year's North Bay Battalion.

Take a moment to really understand what that means. Even in the dark days of 2010/11 our save percentage was a full 20 points higher.

Consider if we had even that modest performance this season, which is still well below average and our worst of this decade. Our goal differential would be 214-188, good for a pythagorean record of 30-23.

Regarding tonight's game, Saginaw has been held to 25 shots only one other time this season and that was a shutout by Peterborough. The fact that they had 8 or 10 scoring chances doesn't mean that they should get 7 goals. That's a normal amount and big saves need to be made.

 

[DWI Dale]

I have a better stat. This is the fourth goalie Fischhaber has thrown under the bus this year.

I rest my case.

 

[Savard18]

That being said, our .862 team save percentage is not explained away by the skaters alone. Over a full season, that would be the worst save percentage since the turn of the century and almost certainly one of the worst goaltending performances in the history of the league, if not the worst. The only teams I could find that are even close are the 2006/07 Erie Otters, who won 15 games, and this year's North Bay Battalion.

I remember just last year when the Flint Firebirds were the best team in the OHL and bound for their first Memorial Cup victory but the refs and their goaltender’s .867 Save % ruined their destiny.

 

[soo hound girl]

I remember just last year when the Flint Firebirds were the best team in the OHL and bound for their first Memorial Cup victory but the refs and their goaltender’s .867 Save % ruined their destiny.

Lmao now that was funny

 

[BehindSooNet]

Tried to fix the formatting error that gummed up my last post with no success. Grrr. Anyway, here's a link (hopefully!) to a story relevant to the topic of the day:

In the NHL, save percentage is a team stat - Sportsnet.ca

 

[HockeyPops]

Add a [/quote] tag

 

[INTENTIONALLYOFFSIDE]

Statistics that use shots on goal are not BS.

Fisch, sorry for the late reply but continental shift is a killer and I don’t have access to a computer.
Just a little background so you understand where I am coming from. I have been involved in hockey for over 45 years in one capacity or another. Doesn’t make me an expert but I have seen the game change a lot. For you, if you are not directly working for the Soo in analytics, I suggest you get a hobby. You have broken these stats down to an infinitesimal scale for what purpose.

First of all, it has been said, “Statistics can prove everything, except the truth.” Stats can be skewed, the truth cannot.
You are so off base in regards to shots on goal, it is actually unbelievable you believe what you are saying. There is no – I repeat no mathematical equation, formula, agilrythm or known way to truly quantify the value of a shot on goal other than the eye test by someone who knows the game and understands goaltending.
You will disagree, as I would expect but I don’t have the time to write a 3 page explanation.

Secondly, stop with the stats from past years they are irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what 2011 stats were, we are in 2020; the game has changed, the players changed, everything has changed.

Lastly, it does not matter how many shots you get or give up; it matters how many high quality, uncontested scoring opportunities you let the other team have. That is about team defence, and yes the goalie is a part of that.
Do you realize that any puck shot towards the net is a scoring opportunity? The big difference is when you leave 3 guys open in front to play tic-tac-goal, that is never on the goalie no matter what the stats say.
Fisch, I don’t think there is much more I can say to try to get you to understand the Soo’s issue is not goaltending.

I will leave you with this:
Taylor – former Dinty winner had good numbers behind strong veteran team last year. Mgt knew he was not the guy. I feel sorry for him, may never play another game for the Soo.

Propp – arguably the most experienced goalie in the league playing behind, young, inexperienced and/or questionable defence. Two and a half months in the Soo turned him into swiss cheese.

Brkin – western goalie with good numbers on a good team gets waived through entire league. Hmmm makes you wonder. I am not a fan of his style, kind of like a call girl on payday, spends most of his time on his knees! But to his credit, he has got the team points. Unfortunately, he probably gets about 4 more starts.

Malik – young pro prospect with upside. Why he left Czech somewhat pro league is beyond me. Somehow his dazzling numbers didn’t make the trip to Canada. Coming over with guaranteed cash and starts may not have been the best choice, especially if it starts to eat away at his confidence.

Take my word Fisch, for what it is, there is not a goalie in the league right now that can help the Soo unless they help themselves with defensive changes.

 

[Savard18]

Do you realize that any puck shot towards the net is a scoring opportunity? The big difference is when you leave 3 guys open in front to play tic-tac-goal, that is never on the goalie no matter what the stats say.

We saw a LOT of that early in the season in Flint last year. It was concerning and I often wondered how much it was hurting young, 17yo Luke Cavallin’s development. Facing a lot of shots and getting a lot of time in net is usually a good thing for a developing goalie. Getting back door slammed 4 times a period with 5 breakaways a night can wreck a goalie though. Destroying their confidence and occasionally leading to bad habits. If you’re getting a wide open winger fed the puck on the backside of your shoulder 12 times a night, you’re gonna start jumping early and then leaving the short side open. So he lets in 6-7-8 a night. 2-3-4 back door early. Starts to cheat on the cross ice pass and lets one sneak by short side. One gets deflected in front because a stick isn’t tied up. What’s the goalies mental state at that point? How focused can you be after getting bombarded with quality chances? Not to make light of a serious matter but the netminder is just working through his PTSD at that point. To Cavallin’s credit, he weathered it all and has become (remained actually) a solid and often spectacular goaltender. You’re likely gonna find out how strong Malik’s mental strength and confidence is. If he weathers through it, he’s likely gonna be a really good one over the next couple years....there is the possibility they break him though and he fades into hockey oblivion. It has happened to many a goalie.

 

[Fischhaber]

I can't respond to a post that dismisses historically significant statistics without providing any facts to refute them, instead resorting to insults.

Stats for the entire league over 20 years is an 'infinitesimal small scale' though. I'll have to remember that one.

 

[DWI Dale]

Just start reading Fischhaber's posts in the voice of Donald Trump. It's hilarious.

 

[Fischhaber]

Frustrating penalty from O'Rourke to start the third. You can't give easy powerplay opportunities when you lead a team that plays the trap.

Also, does anyone have a better replay of the disallowed goal? A good view wasn't available on television and Gerry says that the Generals don't use their video board.

 

[newhound777]

Big win tonight! O'Rouke played fantastically and the entire team looked great.

 

[jjhound]

Statistics that use shots on goal are not BS. What you're getting at is that that scoring chance % is slightly more reliable than simply using shots and that is correct. We don't have that kind of data for the OHL, but the Greyhounds give up their share. I'm not blind to the fact that we give up a lot of scoring chances sometimes.

That being said, our .862 team save percentage is not explained away by the skaters alone. Over a full season, that would be the worst save percentage since the turn of the century and almost certainly one of the worst goaltending performances in the history of the league, if not the worst. The only teams I could find that are even close are the 2006/07 Erie Otters, who won 15 games, and this year's North Bay Battalion.

Take a moment to really understand what that means. Even in the dark days of 2010/11 our save percentage was a full 20 points higher.

Consider if we had even that modest performance this season, which is still well below average and our worst of this decade. Our goal differential would be 214-188, good for a pythagorean record of 30-23.

Regarding tonight's game, Saginaw has been held to 25 shots only one other time this season and that was a shutout by Peterborough. The fact that they had 8 or 10 scoring chances doesn't mean that they should get 7 goals. That's a normal amount and big saves need to be made.

In 1980-81 John Vanbiesbrouck won the Dinty with a 4.14 goals against. I cannot find a save %. Not quite sure where you are finding turn of the century space % stats. But I am sure if he won the award with that GAA there must have been many save % worse than òur current years'.

 

[jjhound]

In 1980-81 John Vanbiesbrouck won the Dinty with a 4.14 goals against. I cannot find a save %. Not quite sure where you are finding turn of the century space % stats. But I am sure if he won the award with that GAA there must have been many save % worse than òur current years'.

I apologize, I am looking pre turn of the century. That's how long I have been attending Hound games, actually since the NOHA. The quality of opportunities our goalies face are top end. This stat is subjective in our case. You kept throwing Vilalta under the bus too!

 

[DWI Dale]

Great win. Still defensively poor but that discussion can be saved for another night.

If we're gonna bid for the memorial cup against oshawa it's nice to give them a little "wink wink nudge nudge" to stir the pot, even if it has nothing to do with the final result.