SSM Greyhounds 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 2)

[HockeyPops]

Better than 50/50 that he is sent back after WJC

 

[Riverfront]

the official release from the arizona coyotes states that : Hayton will return to arizona after the world junior tournament is concluded to
help them arizona for the rest of the NHL season.

 

[ReLyT]

It was always going to "say" he's returning to Arizona.
But in actuality, they have a decision to make once the tournament is over.

 

[DWI Dale]

glad to see hayton playing for canada but that comment suggests we can close the book on him returning to the OHL.

this will be Raftis' egg to wear.

 

[count35]

Have to agree, especially not trading that graduating class, or even part of it last year. I’m told that things like that have to go “up the chain” before Raftis will get the OK from said board. Not a great way to run a team. Just my opinion though.

 

[dirty12]

Whoever finishes first in the conference should turn heads. This conference is so tight, 90 points and first place in the west represents a much more consistent on ice product than 105 points and first in the east. IMO.

the central is very weak, but there is no team in the western conference currently as good as Ottawa & Peterborough imo

 

[dirty12]

I don't think I've ever seen a coach suggest practicing is better than playing. What a dud organization. 19 year olds need to play to develop. Keep him by all means, but not to be a healthy scratch all year.

I am in the corner of nhl practices are better than going backwards to a level already dominated

 

[Houndsfan22]

Big accident with Tucker Tynan of the ice dogs Thursday night. Looked to be his leg slashed by a skate that lead to him being stretchered off of the ice.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642505646222213148/654897473227063296/ELoRMzGXsAAF_Ab.jpeg

ice dogs Twitter says surgery successful and that he is in stable condition. Apparently a skate knicked a main artery in his leg. Scary. Something we should all appreciate are the behind the scenes staff. Outstanding job on their part to react to the situation and bring him to recovery.

 

[Fischhaber]

Have to agree, especially not trading that graduating class, or even part of it last year. I’m told that things like that have to go “up the chain” before Raftis will get the OK from said board. Not a great way to run a team. Just my opinion though.

When you are in first place with the second youngest team in the league, you have some options. Selling isn't one of them.

 

[dirty12]

When you are in first place with the second youngest team in the league, you have some options. Selling isn't one of them.

A young team that will graduate 6 of its 8 best is not really a young team, imo. And, with no chance of advancing past round two without buying, selling is an option, a good one.

 

[jjhound]

Have to agree, especially not trading that graduating class, or even part of it last year. I’m told that things like that have to go “up the chain” before Raftis will get the OK from said board. Not a great way to run a team. Just my opinion though.

As has been posted several times, Raftis apparently had a deal with Owen Sound to add at or near the deadline, and Owen Sound pulled out for whatever reason. We were in first place, capable of going deeper with the additions. Sometimes stuff happens. But at no time did anyone tell him he couldn't make a deal. He has done a great job for several years even losing McCann who could have replenished the draft cupboard mightily. And last year he felt if needed Hayton would add a ton of picks/players this year if need be. Unfortunately things don't always go as you hope. But, its the teams job to advance players, so it's a win at the same time.

 

[Fischhaber]

A young team that will graduate 6 of its 8 best is not really a young team, imo. And, with no chance of advancing past round two without buying, selling is an option, a good one.

Saying that they had no chance is another ridiculously off base statement and outright lie from you. Prosvetov stood on his head to steal that series from the Hounds. They and Saginaw were neck and neck all season and the series was a tossup. Then if London were to beat Guelph, it would probably be an easy ticket to the finals.

 

[DWI Dale]

save your excuses for Raftis at the deadline. while some posters claim we had a deal with owen sound (which would have left our cupboards empty for years), other "insiders" have claimed we were trying to trade a star player and he refused to go.

so which is it? did Raftis fail to sell or fail to buy?

either way he walked away empty handed, and looked every bit like the rookie GM he is. this is a results driven business. stop making excuses.

 

[DWI Dale]

Prosvetov stood on his head to steal that series from the Hounds.

The beat us in 6 and overtook us in the standings after their deadline additions.

 

[AttackSound]

As has been posted several times, Raftis apparently had a deal with Owen Sound to add at or near the deadline, and Owen Sound pulled out for whatever reason. We were in first place, capable of going deeper with the additions. Sometimes stuff happens. But at no time did anyone tell him he couldn't make a deal. He has done a great job for several years even losing McCann who could have replenished the draft cupboard mightily. And last year he felt if needed Hayton would add a ton of picks/players this year if need be. Unfortunately things don't always go as you hope. But, its the teams job to advance players, so it's a win at the same time.

To clarify, my understanding was that OS management had the deal pretty much signed and sealed and at last minute either the return the Hounds brass put forward on the table either wasn't what OS was promised or whatever was changing hands was subject to a NTC asset that the Hounds had offered up and Attack brass wasn't going to drag there feet playing the waiting game for said individual(s) to make up there mind if they would go.

At the time rumors floated around that it was involving JC from the Hounds at the time but nothing was ever to come of it or explained why the deal never materialized nor was suggested individual even the player(s) in question that apparently made such deal crumble.

 

[DWI Dale]

owen sound did what they felt was best for themselves which is what i expect of our GM.

i don't see how OS is in any way to blame for the results our GM produces, nor is it an excuse for getting caught completely flat footed.

 

[AttackSound]

owen sound did what they felt was best for themselves which is what i expect of our GM.

i don't see how OS is in any way to blame for the results our GM produces, nor is it an excuse for getting caught completely flat footed.

Good point DWID, at the time there was no indication that Attack brass short-shafted the Hounds in any way or vice-versa shape or form, more that whatever deal that was in place between our to supported clubs involved a player(s) who chose not to get moved. I think we the fans tend to forget that these are young-men we're talking about and that even though we may overhear or form an opinion that every deal we may think maybe made should be that is not always the case.

 

[HockeyPops]

i don't see how OS is in any way to blame for the results our GM produces

Agreed. Raftis needs to be held fully accountable for this team during his tenure.

either way he walked away empty handed, and looked every bit like the rookie GM he is. this is a results driven business. stop making excuses.

Then start giving credit when it's due. They won a playoff round and competed in another. The Soo's young players vastly exceeded expectations on the year, tied for tops in the division by points, and got valuable post season experience.

Let's compare with London - the class of the league. Raftis took over in the summer of 2014. Under Raftis this team has gone 248-92-21-8 since then. For comparison London has gone 240-101-15-12. London has won 7 playoff rounds, Soo has won 8. London got to the Conference Finals once, Soo got there twice. Of course, the year London got there they won the Conference, League, and Memorial Cup. The Soo, while failing to win the OHL Championship, stacks up pretty well against London's record during the Raftis tenure. Remarkable.

How can you possibly match success with a London program that consistently lands Americans that would be drafted to the NHL, for pennies on the dollar or even for free; ie. Gruden (5th), Regula (4th), Cotter (FA)? You would have to ask Raftis.

 

[DWI Dale]

Agreed. Raftis needs to be held fully accountable for this team during his tenure.

Then start giving credit when it's due.

I do, Raftis drafts well. He has assembled the solid core we have now poised for success next year and the year after. Just how good they are remains to be seen.

But lets not pretend the success from 2014 - 2018 was Raftis' doing. In order to give credit where it is due, I give credit to Dubas for drafting the players we rode to that success. I also give credit to Raftis for landing "the Big Dog" in 2018.

Last season was Raftis' first year with "HIS" team as the only dubas player remaining was Mac Hollowell.

In my opinion Raftis inherited a contender and he doesn't deserve much of the credit for it before last season.

 

[BeliveauFan4ever]

I am in the corner of nhl practices are better than going backwards to a level already dominated

Really.

Define dominant; because Hayton hadn’t been “dominant” which is precisely why people expected he would be returned to junior.

Dominant to me means there are several games over the course of a season where said player is the best player on the ice, and that player directs the final result.

Has. Never. Happened. With. Hayton.

 

[DWI Dale]

hayton was arguably the leagues best 2-way forward last year imo. i considered him a dominant player in that respect.

 

[HockeyPops]

In my opinion Raftis inherited a contender and he doesn't deserve much of the credit for it before last season.

Then we agree to disagree.

While he certainly inherited a strong franchise, he has kept it strong through an entire 5 year cycle. In this league, to have consistent success, you pretty much need to create value from thin air. Simply drafting players in their appropriate rounds is not enough. You need to be able to find the diamond in the rough, and you need to be able to develop your players through their OHL careers. Raftis has done all of these things. He has put in place two coaching staffs to effectively develop players, and maintained an effective scouting staff. He has found impact players in the draft and through free agency - LeGuerrier (8th), Frost (4th), Villalta (FA), Kerins (4th), Dickinson (FA). The only team that has done it better during his time here has been London, and only because of their US players.

Trades are probably the least important piece of the puzzle in terms of building value for the organization; they are usually a break-even on the value proposition. The reason most franchises must go through the sell-off and rebuild cycle to remain competitive is that they fail to build enough value through scouting and development to remain competitive each year and they only have enough value to compete once every three or four years and then only if they focus all of their value into a one year window.

Will Raftis continue to get better at evaluating his roster and determining the optimal amount of tweaking each trade deadline? I would bet on it. But just because 90% of the teams in the league would have sold Frost last trade deadline does not mean that standing pat was the wrong decision for Raftis. It does not mean he has jeopardized a potential run in 2020-2021. It does not mean he walked away empty handed.

 

[DWI Dale]

i'm fine with agreeing to disagreeing. the difference between us and london is they've won a championship in the last 25 years. multiple in fact.

it's in part because when they obviously aren't going to win, they aren't afraid to deal a guy like Robert Thomas and take a hit in the standings.

 

[HockeyPops]

they aren't afraid to deal a guy like Robert Thomas

...for a 16 year old first rounder.

From all indications, nobody was offering up their 16 year old first rounder in a fair exchange for Frost. Don't believe "fear" was a factor.

 

[HockeyPops]

the difference between us and london is they've won a championship in the last 25 years. multiple in fact

First Raftis inherited a contender and doesn't deserve much credit for it before last season, and now he is somehow responsible for the last 25 years?